Now I understand why you’ve had your bell rung so hard here...
You ought to be checking into biggov.com where you’ll be among like minded people.
Good luck and best wishes to you and yours - you have wished me away before because I did not agree with you. Like everything - we all have opinions. Clearly we do not agree about Mr. Bundy, but we each have the right to our own opinions. Banning me or anyone else who does not agree with you on everything does not change minds, educate, or make FR a more lively place. It just makes the echoes louder.
Government by it’s very nature is force. It always will be. The application of force rarely reflects the perfect application of justice for either the government or citizen fighting government. Gunning down someone removing Bundy’s cattle from the range per the orders of a court that deliberated on his case would be no more righteous than blowing up the Federal building in Oklahoma City. McVeigh believed he was striking a blow for freedom, but I believe most of us would agree his actions changed nothing. I don’t believe anyone responsible for the incident that sparked him was even present. His actions did not convince others to begin a revolution against the government. In fact, I would even argue his actions promoted a backlash against some of the sentiment on this thread. Revolution is ugly business not to be taken lightly or expressed in a two line drive-by flame on a web forum. It is purchased in blood - lots of it if history is the guide.
The government is oppressing some guy who did not pay his range fees and defied a court order does not sound like a rallying cry to me and I bet many others afraid to swim against the yelling around here feel the same way. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t think so.
Representative government and the rule of law will always be an imperfect business and always has been - like many things both are a pendulum that can swing too far. The risk always exists that it will tip over because some level of equilibrium is necessary for it to function as designed.
We appear to be headed towards that tipping point on a host of issues including land usage rights via the EPA and other government regulations/taxations that stifle freedom. We are headed that way with public debt. There is a much larger issue at play with Bundy. There are ramifications for him winning (some would celebrate) just as there were for the Black Panthers getting away with voter intimidation (some did not celebrate).
Bundy’s story could just as easily be a municipality vs resident, county vs farmer, or state vs citizen. Government is the same animal in different sizes, but each level enforces the laws enacted by the elected representatives through legislation and interpretation by force if necessary. Our system of government demands an educated and moral populace that understands both the necessity and danger of government. An almost impossible task as our founders warned us. If conservatives can’t convince a majority we are right we won’t win. Talking about shooting BLM employees who are removing cattle from public land per a court order is not going to convince the majority your views are right about government.
As others have said before being shouted down - Bundy is terribly flawed no matter how many millions show up to stand with him or cheer him - tens of millions will view him without sympathy. The majority won’t even know about him because they don’t care or pay attention.
This is not the fight and I pray something really stupid does not happen on either side.
They did not aid and abet this.
Now you're just lying.
Government provides them with food, aid, and comfort, not to mention medical, jobs, drivers licenses, food stamps, welfare, etc etc., after Americans have be screamed, protested, petitioned and voted for relief from this epic country killing invasion?
BTW, If you’re represented Mr. beer, why were tens of millions of Americans totally ignored for the past several decades when they screamed, protested, petitioned and voted for relief from this epic invasion of our country?
Why are you evading the questions?
The government was up to its eyeballs in Oklahoma City. That's probably one of the reasons they put down McVeigh so quickly. Usually, it takes 20 years plus to kill someone on death row these days.
The "compound" was an FBI operation.
>> “Bundy is terribly flawed no matter how many millions show up to stand with him or cheer him - tens of millions will view him without sympathy.” <<
.
Out of ignorance!
Bundy’s claim is legitimate. He does own the Surface Rights to that land, regardless of who owns the underlying fee.
Ownership of surface rights is the chief principle in this battle between land users and the Marxists that are trying to strip us of our land.
None of your specious arguments even touch on this ancient principle, that was endorsed by our congress when they ratified the treaty.