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Ukraine Crisis: Russia Brands New Leaders "Mutineers" (We All Knew This Was Coming Alert)
BBC News ^
| 2/24/2014
| BBC News
Posted on 02/24/2014 8:12:05 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: dfwgator
Wheres Marshall Pilsudski when we need him? I suppose someone could drag Jozef Pilsudski's corpse out of the mausoleum. He'd put up a better fight than 0bama.
21
posted on
02/24/2014 9:01:23 AM PST
by
The_Victor
(If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
you are not making sense. Armed rebellion? huh? Rocks? burning tires? Oh, a few air rifles, and I saw a shotgun and a handgun in comparison to troops carrying real rifles, which were filmed shooting people. Those troops shot more than few people dead, wounding dozens more.
What deal did the EU "sign on to" that was breached within 48 hours? You are getting things backwards/sideways.
Please -- that kind of talk is not helping.
22
posted on
02/24/2014 9:07:53 AM PST
by
BlueDragon
(Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.Proverbs 29:18)
To: goldstategop
Ukraine can shut the gas pipelines transiting the country, and remove the Russians from Sevastopol in return.
23
posted on
02/24/2014 9:08:18 AM PST
by
Kozak
("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
To: goldstategop
You mean like the North forced the South?
24
posted on
02/24/2014 9:09:57 AM PST
by
Kozak
("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
To: The_Victor
The Ukrainians-- they are ready to die: the snipers Yanukovich deployed just pissed them off. Any direct Russian intervention would also be opposed by the Ukrainian military; or, at least large chunks of it.
The Ukrainian fleet is harbored right next to the Russian fleet at Sevastopol-- all it would take would be a couple of Ukrainian cruisers firing point blank to cause massive damage.
Russia could undoubtedly 'win' in the end, but the cost would be massive, and would also probably involve loss of access to Western markets and cash.
The bigger danger to Ukraine are 'separatists' funded by Moscow and aided under the table with weapons or Russian special forces.
25
posted on
02/24/2014 9:17:04 AM PST
by
pierrem15
(Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
To: goldstategop
Agreed. The Eurasian Union wont work without Ukraine. I can imagine a partitioned Ukraine in which the eastern half would be free to join the Customs Union Of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. I see this as the most probable outcome to the current crisis. Won't happen. The eastern part of Ukraine is where the oil fields are. What does Ukraine really have? Oil, plus the pipeline access from Russia to the Black Sea.
26
posted on
02/24/2014 9:27:54 AM PST
by
PapaBear3625
(You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
To: goldstategop
And the Russian foreign ministry said dissenters in mainly Russian-speaking regions faced suppression. I remember when Hitler had that same problem in the Sudaten land in 1939. -Tom
27
posted on
02/24/2014 9:47:12 AM PST
by
Capt. Tom
(Don't confuse U.S. citizens and Americans. They are not necessarily the same. -tom)
To: goldstategop
a great deal of the nation’s wealth resides in non-pro-Europe eastern Ukraine...For a country like Ukraine, the appeal of federalism, which divides authority between the central government and its constituent regions, is undeniable...According to Ukraine’s government statistics service, manufacturing contributes at least three times more than agriculture to the country’s gross domestic product. Thus, eastern regions generally have higher per capita GDP rates...Seven of Ukraine’s 10 largest private companies by revenue are either headquartered or maintain the majority of their operations in eastern Ukraine...
The country’s most important businessmen are embedded in the east, where their businesses make disproportionately high contributions to the Ukrainian economy and national budget. Westerners staunchly oppose federalism because they believe it would threaten their economic and security interests. Others believe it could dissolve Ukraine as a country, leaving the west weak and defenseless against the Russia-backed east. Whether or not these concerns are misplaced, federalism would in fact benefit eastern regions disproportionately by giving them more control over state revenue, aggravating the socioeconomic tensions between the regions.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-23/eu-offers-conditional-aid-ukraines-catastrophic-pre-default-economic-state
To: PapaBear3625
See my post #28. Apparently the eastern half is the half that has more business and contributes more to the economy. The EU wants the entire Ukraine so that they can redistribute that wealth.
To: pierrem15
Eff Russia if she tries directly intervening, the bear will be biting off a lot more than it can chewHow do you figure that?
30
posted on
02/24/2014 10:04:07 AM PST
by
Jim Noble
(When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
To: Jim Noble
A country with 40 million population, most of them hostile. Millions AKAs and RPGs. And a grudge. That would not be an easy occupation.
31
posted on
02/24/2014 10:14:22 AM PST
by
Kozak
("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
To: Jim Noble
Putin isn't Stalin: more importantly, his instruments of repression aren't Stalin's-- how many Ukrainian civilians do you think the Russian army would have to kill? Do you think the Ukrainian army would twiddle its thumbs while the Russian army did so?
Any direct Russian invasion would be an enormous mess: and if it failed, or the Russian army revolted in the face of the atrocities it was being asked to commit, what would happen to Putin?
32
posted on
02/24/2014 10:34:46 AM PST
by
pierrem15
(Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
To: goldstategop
Russia Brands New Leaders “Mutineers”
AND this makes Russian leaders WHAT?... Stalinitas?...
You know Stalin......... that literally murdered most of the people in Ukraine..
Some no doubt actually REMEMBER THAT..
33
posted on
02/24/2014 10:57:43 AM PST
by
hosepipe
(This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
To: goldstategop
There is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens.”
Interesting use of the posessive, I thought they were
Ukranian citizens. Kinda gives the game away.
34
posted on
02/24/2014 11:05:19 AM PST
by
tet68
( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
To: goldstategop
Russia's reaction was harsh - and is also a sharp warning to the putschists in Kiev that Russia will not hesitate to take all the necessary steps to protect its interests and the lives of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine - whose language and cultural rights have already been rolled back by the new authorities.
The only part of Ukraine with a majority of ethnic Russians is the Crimean peninsula. In the rest of the country most of the Russian speaking people are ethnic Ukrainians (total 77.8% according to Wiki) whose interests aren't necessarily those of Russia.
See
here for details, ethnicity-language map, and comments by "
a Ukrainian-descended American software developer, based for the last two years ... in Lviv, in western Ukraine, about 300 miles from the capital, Kyiv, where the worst of the recent civil unrest has taken place".
To: pierrem15
Russia wants a federal solution - or barring that, its fully prepared to aid and fund separatist forces - and can put in troops to protect the local population.
Kiev doesn’t have much choice and the country is teetering on the edge of a breakup.
36
posted on
02/24/2014 11:35:27 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
To: caveat emptor
They may be ethnic Ukrainians but they’re attached to the Russian and culture.
The main problem the new regime has is rolled back language and cultural rights for Russophones and in issuing an arrest warrant for Yanukovych - its signalling not reconciliation but revenge.
It looks like political retribution against the east for backing him and against Russia which backed his regime. This will not end well.
And Putin is not the kind of guy to swallow humiliation. He plays political chess better than any one else. This is by means over.
37
posted on
02/24/2014 11:40:57 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
To: pierrem15
Russia could undoubtedly 'win' in the end, but the cost would be massive, and would also probably involve loss of access to Western markets and cash. Ukraine ground forces consist of 57,000 personnel, not all combat. They have 2 armor brigades which use the Ukrainian upgraded T-64 (686 total tanks) as their main battle tank. Most of the rest of their equipment is leftover from the Soviet era. No matter how well trained and dedicated their troops are, it's going to be a short battle.
38
posted on
02/24/2014 11:50:00 AM PST
by
The_Victor
(If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
To: The_Victor
If they decide to fight in massed formations, yes.
If Russian forces are attacked piecemeal, it's a long slog.
Plus I think you rate the Russian operational efficiency too highly: apart from a few spec ops units and some air force units, I doubt many Russian troops get much training at all.
39
posted on
02/24/2014 12:03:54 PM PST
by
pierrem15
(Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
To: goldstategop
Russia wants another colony.
40
posted on
02/24/2014 12:05:07 PM PST
by
pierrem15
(Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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