Posted on 02/18/2014 7:39:38 AM PST by Nachum
t turns out that the Department of Homeland Security isn’t buying that much ammunition per officer after all… and certainly a lot less per man than most avid shooters go through in a year.
Of course, I won’t ask you to take my word for it (the mind control rays could have gotten me, too), so I’ll turn it over to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which provides a link to the Government Accountability Office report for the debunking (PDF) (here’s the direct GAO
The Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) annual ammunition purchases have declined since fiscal year 2009 and are comparable in number to the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) ammunition purchases. In fiscal year 2013, DHS purchased 84 million rounds of ammunition, which is less than DHS’s ammunition purchases over the past 5 fiscal years, as shown in the figure below. DHS component officials said the decline in ammunition purchases in fiscal year 2013 was primarily a result of budget constraints, which meant reducing the number of training classes, and drawing on their ammunition inventories. From fiscal years 2008 through 2013, DHS purchased an average of 109 million rounds of ammunition for training, qualification, and operational needs, according to DHS data. DHS’s ammunition purchases over the 6-year period equates to an average of 1,200 rounds purchased per firearm-carrying agent or officer per year. Over the past 3 fiscal years (2011-2013), DHS purchased an average of 1,000 rounds per firearm-carrying agent or officer and selected DOJ components purchased 1,300 rounds per firearm-carrying agent or officer.
DHS ammunition purchases are driven primarily by firearm training and qualification requirements. Most DHS firearm-carrying personnel are required to qualify four times per year, though requirements vary by component, as do the number of rounds of ammunition typically used for training and qualification.
(Excerpt) Read more at bearingarms.com ...
Your 1300 number is off by a big bunch. Weapons training with a full auto will burn that up in a couple of hours.
Every time I read the word hoarder....
“Your 1300 number is off by a big bunch. Weapons training with a full auto will burn that up in a couple of hours.”
It’s not my number. It’s the DHS number, in the article. Actually the DHS number is 1200 yr. I overestimated to give them the benefit. Really. It’s in the article...here it is:
“DHS’s ammunition purchases over the 6-year period equates to an average of 1,200 rounds purchased per firearm-carrying agent or officer per year”
Also: “DHS ammunition purchases are driven primarily by firearm training and qualification requirements.”
As for the “full auto” thing. Sure. It’s an average. Most don’t qualify full auto. But again, it’s not my number. There it is.
We both know that government numbers are always correct.
So it’s simple really, there are just too many feds with guns.
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Why feed the sturgeons of debt with much frivolous personal spending? The commie recipients of the pile of debt in every locale are heavily invested in all local energy utilities and other commodities. It only gives them the money and time to rule over us in politics. As for bonds, who cares? Those are losers in the near future, and we all know it.
That is not a contention. It is fact, well known to all of us inside the ammunition industry. We don't know whether to laugh or cry when reading all the nonsense written about ammunition on forums like this. Some of these folks seem quite akin to the Aborigines that were trying to decide what a piano must look like after listening to one on a portable radio they found in the Outback.
"If so, who was selling it?" All the usual suspects.
"Who was buying it?" The usual suspects plus carloads of low information kooks.
"Seems like an awful lot of ammo to be sold in secret." Secret? What have you been drinking or smoking?
"Sorry, but the answer has to be (HAS TO BE? SAYS WHO BESIDES THE KOOKS?) something different than..."
"The reason there is no ammo for sale is because so many people are buying so much ammo." Whomever you quoted knew of what he communicated to you. Bless him."
"That is kind of like Yogi Berra on why he quit going to a restaurant....“Nobody goes there anymore because it’s too crowded.” Funny, but totally unrelated to the subject at hand.
Re. your FR page, I do have one lug stud out of five missing from one wheel since mounting some tires recently (remote place under ice here). ;-)
I bought a Govt. "trade-in" Sig P225 that had obvuously never been loaded (no stripe on the steel mag follower) much less fired. It had been issued to some USDA employee.
I used to see .22 for sale at my local Walmart and all three of the sporting goods stores that I frequent. I have not seen any for several months.
What you are saying is exactly like the Yogi Berra quote.
...The reason I don't see any of the .22 ammo at Walmart or my sporting goods stores and the reason nobody I know can find any and the reason why my son's scouting group had to cancel the shooting camp out....is because there are just so many .22 rounds being sold.
Sorry, I ain't buying it. Any other industry that finds itself in a prolonged period of high demand finds a way to keep the shelves stocked.
There are some outside forces at play here. Whether it is something nefarious like the government messing with supply and demand or something benign like raw material shortages or ammo companies concentrating production on higher margin rounds such as 9mm, 5.56 & .223....I don't know. Something has changed and it isn't just the "kooks".
No mention of the closing of the only lead smelter in US?
Thank-you for posting that link.
Yes, I’m private sector.
Havel has several excellent books - but he is (deliberately?) being ignored by the mass media of ABCNNBCBS stooges.
Before the great 22LR shortage here is how my use worked.
I have unlimited access to some nearby private property used exclusively as a range.
Because 22LR was cheap, I did most of my practice with it & only a small amount with the centerfire arms. Well, during the spring, summer and fall I often go (went)3 times a week and burn 150-200 rounds each time. At 3.6¢ a round, a cheap hobby.
IOW, I was using a brick every 1-2 weeks for a good portion of the year. When you use that much regularly it’s only practical to keep a larger inventory.
I can’t afford to shoot that often with a centerfire rifle. Democrats get ObamaPhones, why can’t the government give me Obamamunition?
I just checked with the ammo leader at DU.com and this was her reply.
“Obamamunition is only for the 1%ers who pay their fair share. Evidently you aren’t paying your fair share anymore or else you would be able to afford Obamamunition.”
Myself I think she didn’t want to admit that she didn’t feel that you were entitled to Obamamunition because as your name implies, you are a ChildOfThe60s.
So why is there a shortage of ammo? Anyone know this answer?
"I used to see .22 for sale at my local Wal-Mart and all three of the sporting goods stores that I frequent. I have not seen any for several months." For certain. That is what kook hoarders can do to the distribution system.
"What you are saying is exactly like the Yogi Berra quote." No, it is not. "...The reason I don't see any of the .22 ammo at Wal-Mart or my sporting goods stores and the reason nobody I know can find any and the reason why my son's scouting group had to cancel the shooting camp out....is because there are just so many .22 rounds being sold." Yes, the marketplace can't sell more than are made. That is the total essence of the problem. Read from a number of posters on this thread that have described their hoards. And they are so proud! Another certainty is all of the extra ammo that has been purchased is not being fired."
"Sorry, I ain't buying it." Do you frequently have trouble handling the truth.
"Any other industry that finds itself in a prolonged period of high demand finds a way to keep the shelves stocked." The ammo industry is not any other industry and you apparently are unwilling to believe the truth.
"There are some outside forces at play here". Oh, boy! The current conspiracy theories are not enough for you? "Whether it is something nefarious like the government messing with supply and demand...."
It is not.
"....or something benign like raw material shortages...." It is not.
"....or ammo companies concentrating production on higher margin rounds such as 9mm, 5.56 & .223...." Ah! There may be some of that now that the opportunity is present and consumer/hoarders have no concern about pricing.
"I don't know". That is for certain!
"Something has changed and it isn't just the "kooks"". Sort of. Too many otherwise sane people have been following the kooks antics and purchasing more ammo than is reasonable, even under the most extreme doomsday scenario. The average gunfight involves very few shots.
Please take a deep breath, recognize reality and have a good day.
True.
Still, if one (as many are) is thinking in terms of long term breakdown, then a "reasonable" quantity becomes a different matter. Ammo begins to look like a multipurpose item. Barter, sell, hunt, and of course shoot bad guys. How much is reasonable if one is seriously considering 5 or 10 years of serious disruption in the economy, social fabric and law and order?
But even with massive hoarding going on, the majority of those stockpiling are going to max out because of either space, money or they simply think they've got enough. Has to happen. Now entities hoarding for purposes of having the commodity for later selling (during civil unrest or such), those higher up in the distribution ladder, they could be filling warehouses. Then supply catching up is going to take a lot longer.
Some calibers are hard to find in brick stores like WM, but are in very plentiful supply (and reasonable price) online. I don't know why that is. But .223 & 5.56 and 7.62x39 are very plentiful right now for example, but in my WM, almost none most of the time.
Just my observations.
Hmm, like maybe she thinks I've gone over to the dark side?[LOL] I've been here all along. A lot of us came of age in the 60s and didn't turn into idiot libs. I just worked hard, partied hard, and didn't get laid near enough.
Oh well, Obamamunition is probably made of nerf material anyway.
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