Posted on 10/06/2013 11:46:55 AM PDT by nickcarraway
It's been two days since 34-year-old dental hygienist Miriam Carey was killed after she rammed her car into a barricade in front of the White House and led security forces on a chase toward the U.S. Capitol, and some are asking whether the use of deadly force against her was truly necessary. While the first accounts of Carey's death said she exited her black Infiniti before she was shot, investigators now say she was still in the vehicle when officers fired the fatal bullets. Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Terrance W. Gainer told reporters that Carey "was trying to make a U-turn [toward the officers] between a United States Capitol Police security booth and some planters in the middle of the street on Constitution Avenue. Capitol Police officers and uniformed Secret Service officers shot at the car with semiautomatic pistols." D.C. Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier indicated that the car was not moving at that time and confirmed that officers shot at Carey beforehand, near Garfield Circle, when the car was still moving.
As has been noted, D.C. police have a policy against shooting at moving vehicles "unless deadly force is being used against the officer or another person...For purposes of this order, a moving vehicle is not considered deadly force." But when speaking to the Washington Post, Gainer acknowledged that the location of the incident complicated the situation: "The thing that’s distinctive about this is it was not your typical traffic violation...We operate in an environment under the constant threat of attack from suicide bombers and improvised explosive devices." He added, "Whenever there are bullets flying, there are risks. I think these officers minimized the risks to others." (Carey was unarmed, so — appropriately discharged or not — the only bullets flying were those of the security officers.) The New York Times points out that it is "not clear" whether the Secret Service or the Capitol Police share the D.C. Police Department's policy against shooting at moving cars. Spokespeople for both the Secret Service and Capitol Police declined to provide the Post with more information regarding their organizations' protocols.
Scores of experts have weighed in on the matter, though they mostly (and understandably, given that many details are still unavailable) seem unable to say whether it was handled correctly. Geoffrey Alpert, a criminologist at the University of South Carolina who spoke to the Times, said, "[Carey] had to be stopped. The question is, were there better ways to stop her? I don’t know what the answers are." William J. Bratton, who has led the Boston, L.A., and New York City police departments, also pointed out that D.C. offers "a different set of challenges than most police agencies. It’s truly an exceptional city with exceptional security circumstances." (He also said it was hard to judge the situation because we don't know if Carey "disobeyed commands" form officers.) Chuck Wexler of the Police Executive Research Forum told the Post this was "clearly an out-of-control situation" and said that "it's very important to think, what did the officers know at that point in time versus what we know today," which he said was a reference Carey's widely reported history of postpartum depression and possible psychosis and the fact that her 1-year-old daughter was also in the car.
In an interview with ABC News, Carey's sisters said she was not violent and attributed her struggle with mental illness. They also said the police should have acted differently. Valarie Carey, a retired NYPD sergeant, said, "Officers had enough time to assess the occupants of the vehicle. They actually not only put someone at harm's way, but they took someone's life." "She had no political agenda. She didn't hate her country. She wasn't a terrorist. She was on medication," said another sister, Amy Carey Jones, a registered nurse. "Mental illness really should have more attention."
Wow! I had not seen that. Almost looks like in his effort to avoid the cop on the bicycle, he cut it too close with the barrier.
If, as the Obamas and Sharptons claim, Trayvon should not have been shot, then for sure this woman should not have been shot.
Shoot the tires out, use spike strips, use a “pin maneuver” with your cop car. Push her up to a barricade, make sure she can’t drive away.
Cops are too trigger happy.
Good thing she didn’t have a dog in the car, they would’ve shot that too.
So...logically your position is that the police can shoot anyone driving a car?
She was a threat.........and her intentions were unknown. Had she not been killed and exploded a trunk full of C4, this work have been a much more tragic story. He was acting crazy in probably the most sought after target area in the world. The police had no choice.........
Threat = Massive Option List = POLICE
Otherwise, what use ANY training at all? You "kill first, ask questions later" people are still endangering cops. After all, if any threat requires killing, then why put cops out there at all where they could be hurt? Why not go straight to military drones, and missile strikes or snipers against anyone deemed a threat? THAT is perfect police safety.
Not this half-assed endangerment where multiple police officers have to first put themselves in harm's way to determine that an unarmed woman with a baby is a threat before they can murder her. I think it is time some FReepers came out of the closet, and just admitted that they want to get rid of the police altogether and go straight to martial law. Threat = Kill = MILITARY.
Threat = Massive Option List = POLICE
Otherwise, what use ANY training at all? You "kill first, ask questions later" people are still endangering cops. After all, if any threat requires killing, then why put cops out there at all where they could be hurt? Why not go straight to military drones, and missile strikes or snipers against anyone deemed a threat? THAT is perfect police safety.
Not this half-assed endangerment where multiple police officers have to first put themselves in harm's way to determine that an unarmed woman with a baby is a threat before they can murder her.
All I'm saying is say what you mean. The sooner we go to complete military takeover and drones firing missiles at "threats," from offsite computer terminals, the sooner cops will stop being endangered in the line of duty.
All I'm saying is say what you mean. The sooner we go to complete military takeover and drones firing missiles at "threats," from offsite computer terminals, the sooner cops will stop being endangered in the line of duty.
Hear, hear.
The more militarized cops are, the more incidents like this we seem to have. And some people--even here on FR-- cheer on the State's iron fisted response, never realizing that THEY could be the next victim of the military-police complex.
We had more restrictive rules of engagement in Afghanistan than these donut munchers had in DC against this poor woman.
Regarding Kennedy you may get the REAL answer from LBJ’s mistress, with whom he fathered a son. Interesting but revealing “pillow-talk” that most investigators are side-stepping!!!
My dear wife once ran a minivan off road tearing out the drive train avoiding a shooting on a nearby road.
When she got to the house the van was toast. It died in the end of the driveway.
That was 3 years ago and she still won't talk about it to this day. Side note she now has a 4wd truck.
I don't think this lady was crazy, just scared. I'd like to know the real reason she was in DC.
Pillow talk/drunk confessions are difficult to prove. My X admitted to three to me in such a state, but when confronted by police I was the crazy one.
He’s such a well respected member of the community and the good ol boy club!
The police seem always willing to engage in reckless, sometimes absurd behaviors when fleeing vehicles are involved. As though the failure to stop on command, is equal to being a murderous terrorist. Often the police make the situation far worse be racing through the streets at incredible speeds, blowing through traffic signals, employing stop sticks, all because one of the 10 million tipsy drivers on the road that night declined to obey. All that needs to be done is to condition the police immunity from suit and prosecution on their acting responsibly and in accordance with police policy.
Screw Mariah carey, I didn’t listen to her music anyway, they should shoot madonna too, and that lib tony bennet and lady googoo and beyonce and sinead o’conner.
She was NOT confronted by the Police. Go and see her whole one hour+ interview and you may change your mind. I did!!!
BTW here’s some news just saw on FB: ...>>>...
How cold and callous you are. I saw the family interviewed on TV. It was very moving. They appeared to be good people, quiet, intelligent, well-spoken.....real people like you and me. The effects of the awful death in their family circle was markedly visible on their somber faces and in their body language.
How very pathetic of YOU to ascribe such evil intent to a deeply bereaved family you don't even know.
Leni
I hope they prove me wrong —
Time will tell.
In the meantime where have you been in the discussion here — another late coming mia.
Sorry, Sir Snark....I was in the conversation on the other thread discussing this same subject.
Do I have to have Your Lordship's permission to comment on THIS thread?
Leni
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.