Posted on 09/19/2013 2:46:04 PM PDT by SkyPilot
The news media quoted him out of context. I am literally quivering with shock at that revelation.
I too seek/sought the “mystical dimension” where God is love and only love, but now I am discovering another “mystical dimension” where there is a battle raging between good and evil and I am fighting for my/others’ salvation, so at this point I am seeking/needing truth/clarity from the Church, and I thank everyone here for sharing your views and giving me much to think about...
Paladinan,
As we use to say on the tank gunnery range: Target hit! for your post 201.
We need to spread this amongst all the FR posters who use the MSM headlines to launch attacks on the Pope and Christianity.
Very Well Said!
The only ‘gay cabal running the pope’ is the MSM spreading disinformation on whatever he says.
"That said, the Church can be said to be like a mother in some ways."
That's what we're saying. St. John notably uses the feminine "Lady Ecclesia" imagery when talking about the Church, just as the OT prophets spoke of "Daughter Zion," "Mother Jerusalem", the land Eretz Isreal being "espoused" to God and "flowing with milk and honey" (talk about obvious maternal imagery!"
That's also why God can't be "Our Mother" (feminists take note!) It's because God is Our Father. The Church, His spouse, is our "Mater Ecclesia."
"Should we equate The Catholic Church with The Church?"
(Ahem... Yes. But.)
This might seem like hair-splitting, but I pray you, stick with me here. The Catholic Catechism does not "equate" the Catholic Church with The Church, but says that the Church of Christ "subsists in" the Catholic Church.
It'll just take you 5 seconds to take a better look at that here in th Catechism.
What that means is that Christ's Church "continues" or "is still going on in" the Catholic Church, but does not exclude the dimension of the Church which is outside of the visible confines of Catholicism.
In other words, the dimensions could be seen as big as "all the baptized" or even "all the disciples of the Lord," and even "those whose faith is known Him alone." Which is why, for instance, the Catholic Church recognizes the Sacraments of Baptism and of Matrimony as valid in all Christian denominations, even if those denominations themselves don't see them as Sacraments.
These various denominations still contain "dimensions of the Church."
(I hope I am not too obscure>) >:o|
I'm trying to be B.A.S.I.C. !
Yea. Verily.
Marantha
Thank you, GreyFriar. Your comments have been sensible, and more.
amen ther can be NO confusion on the teaching of Christ especially from the Pope and I am Catholic.
sheesh I messed up in that one sentence!!!!
Well this pope certainly got folks talking.
I really think he has a more evangelical framework in mind. Something that (and not to discount the bumbles and fumbles on the way at all, but notwithstanding that) Martin Luther got the hint about several centuries back. Sin stays sin and righteousness stays righteousness. However the means of dealing with it is passed back to God; we don’t try to be “sin committees” but rather look to God for the flexibility to assert grace without excusing sin for a moment. The idea of pointing out sin is not to necessarily smack the sinner down, but to smack the SIN down by replacing it with grace. And squeezing the devil out. It is a beautiful paradigm.
Well, it’s hard for us Crazy Evangelicals to not say “We told you so.” But it isn’t us that told you so and we would be lying if we asserted that. It’s GOD who told you (and us) so.
Don’t paint the power of grace into a corner with human accretions of law... even if it has the name of God’s own church on the cover of those accretions... sin remains sin and grace remains grace. But let God direct in doling the grace out. He might have a better plan in mind than we do!
I say DITTO to what Mrs. Don-o posted.
;-))))))
And I got here in part because I resolved to know “nothing but Christ and Him crucified [for the forgiveness of our sins and restoration of our souls]”. But God gets the glory for even that. I couldn’t save or even improve myself. But God can do splendid works. Decades of hard times taught me that.
Anyhow I don’t have any denominational axes to grind at all even though I had to choose some specific congregation in which to worship (Southern Baptist here). Christ is the 200 ton elephant in this room, so to speak. From that point of view, earthly nomenclature seems a little silly. He — and not even the church itself — gets to say who the church is. And if there was any question, it has been empirically proven as well as theologically, and I’ll say that to any Christian in any denomination.
I wasn't trying to be, either. The point of my reply was that, according to the linked article, the Vatican approved the language of the article before it was printed. This means it was not media "spin" nor anti-Catholic bias that put out the words of Pope Francis. That's all.
Thanks for your thoughtful and well-written posts on this thread. I agree that we need to counter any FR posters who use MSM headlines to attack the Pope and Christianity.
Let's do it together:
Jesus Anointed by a Sinful Woman
36 When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. 37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. 38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. 39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” 40 Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.” “Tell me, teacher,” he said. 41 “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[a] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?” 43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.” “You have judged correctly,” Jesus said. 44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.” 48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” 49 The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” 50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
I missed the part where it says the pope can say that sin is not really sin.
"It is not necessary to talk about these issues (abortion and homosexuality) all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently. We have to find a new balance." - Pope Francis
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I remember, several years ago, I asked a Catholic priest if someone could be certain that they were going to Heaven, and not Hell.
He responded with: "Well, that is a great mystery."
The cold truth is that many priests themselves don't even know what the Gospel says about true Salvation, much less teach that Good News to others.
We don't earn our way into God's Kingdom, it is by Grace, and Grace alone. I don't need any man to tell me what Christ promised, and what Christ did. God's Word tells me, and by accepting Jesus, I found out He is real.
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