BREAKING: FAA: UPS jet crashes in Birmingham, Ala.

CBS 12 News ^ | August 14, 2013 | Michele Wright

[Yosemitest]

Because I was up late that night/early that morning commenting on another thread, and I keep a fairly close eye on the radar/satellite loop.

[radec]

You didn’t answer the question.

[radec]

If the radar was turned up too high....

then were are the storms? There are none.

[SgtBob]

I’m a pilot...I’m frequently in contact with FW, HU, ME, KC, AU, and ID.

I do have a close friend, who works FW. Known him and his family since ‘73. I don’t understand what knowing someone in ARTCC has to do with anything...

[Yosemitest]

Yes I did.
I told you, I keep an eye on the weather.

[Yosemitest]

Your timing is off.
I believe weather was definitely a factor as to WHY the pilot flew that Airbus 300 into the trees.

UPS plane crash: Aerial photos, video of crash site

[SgtBob]

I can read the AIM...quite familiar with it, I am. What bearing does that have? The aircraft was NOT at FL180 when it hit the ground. Class A doesn’t start at the ground.

Center routinely gives me the current ATIS, ASOS info for the closest airport, and the only time I was given an altimeter setting of 29.92 is when that was the pressure....I don’t hit the FLs

Were they trying to sneak in? Did Center not hand them off to approach, or departure? Did they get cleared to land WITHOUT THE CURRENT ATIS???

[Yosemitest]

Your friend at FW should have explained it to you, reference comment #170

and their use of the Standard 29.92 altimeter,
how that affects the Mode C readout of the aircraft's altitude,
and where the data FlightAware gets comes from on the Flight Track Log for UPS1354.

It comes from the data received from that aircraft's mode C.
And based on what's on that Flight Track Log, the data was not continuously transmitted twice a minute.
Sometimes it was received only once a minute. or not a all for over a minute ( 05:33-05:40 ).
Could that spotty reception have been because of the weather?

[SgtBob]

You might want to learn more about your craft. You keep referring to “Center’s Airspace”. FL180 is a place I can’t venture...I fly 3,000, to12,000 IFR, depending on winds.

ARTCC is where nobody else is. Why do you think that Center only controls high altitudes?

[Yosemitest]

"Did Center not hand them off to approach, or departure?
Did they get cleared to land WITHOUT THE CURRENT ATIS??? "

Was Birmingham TRACON manned 24 hours a day, or did it not open until 06:00AM ?
Where the local Birmingham Airport Altimeter is transmitted from is normally from the ATIS.
If the pilot doesn't give the proper ATIS Code to the controller, the controller has to issue the pilot the current landing information, which includes the current Altimeter,
that the pilot uses in his transponder to give him his local altitude data, which the aircraft transmits back to the radar scope, D-Brite, and to flightaware.com.

[Yosemitest]

"FL180 is a place I can’t venture...I fly 3,000, to12,000 IFR, depending on winds."

That explains your lack of knowledge.
But you would normally talk to Center if you fly at or over 10,000 feet into most small airports, and while flying enroute at or over 10,000 feet.

[SgtBob]

Let me spell it out for you, mister.

1. I KNOW THAT 29.92 IS USED IN CLASS A AIRSPACE.

2. I KNOW THAT IF YOU DESCEND FROM FL180 YOUR ALTIMETER MUST BE RESET TO LOCAL CONDITIONS, PROVIDED BY CENTER.

3. I KNOW THAT TO GET CLEARANCE TO LAND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE CURRENT ATIS INFO CODE.

4. SCREW FLIGHT TRACK...THEY WERE NOT THE PIC.

5. What ARTCC do you work out of?

[Yosemitest]

"ARTCC is where nobody else is."

WRONG!
Center Airspace is some of the busiest and most congested airspace in the air, all flying at high speed.
Remember, the earth is curved, so everything is eventually on collision course.
Small time pilots like yourself should go visit a Center and "Watch and Learn".
But your ego couldn't stand the "humbling".

[Yosemitest]

You have a short memory.
I said earlier that I'm retired.

[radec]

Yes I did. I told you, I keep an eye on the weather.

Anybody can "keep an eye on the weather".

He's a Delta captain with 43 years experience who says that there was nothing unusual about the weather at the time of the crash. Period. And the radar loop that you linked to proves him correct.

[SgtBob]

“That explains your lack of knowledge.”

My “ lack of knowledge”?

I’m in contact with various Centers on every flight I take...what do you mean?

[SgtBob]

“WRONG!
Center Airspace is some of the busiest and most congested airspace in the air, all flying at high speed.
Remember, the earth is curved, so everything is eventually on collision course.
Small time pilots like yourself should go visit a Center and “Watch and Learn”.
But your ego couldn’t stand the “humbling”.”

What the hell are you speaking of....a fine controller like you should know that Class B is the busiest.

The only reason you “work” for Center is because you can’t handle MEM Approach, and DTN wouldn’t hire you.

I never said that have never ventured into Class A, and “high speed” is the last thing I would classify a Beech King Air 90; she gets a great fuel burn in the FLs. My regular ride is a Mooney.

I have no ego...i have issues with folk who post ignorantly.

[Moonman62]

Preliminary review of the cockpit voice recorder shows the pilots were cleared to land on Runway 18/36 two minutes before the end of the recording.

Sixteen seconds before the end of the recording, the pilots received the first of two "sink rate" warnings, a mechanism which kicks in if a plane's descent does not match its programmed path, Sumwalt added.

Thirteen seconds to the end, a crew member reported the runway was in sight.

Nine seconds prior to the end, there are "sounds that are consistent with impact," Sumwalt said. Sumwalt stopped short of saying if those sounds were of the plane's first strike of trees near the airport or of the plane striking the ground, adding that the initial team's role is to collect, not analyze data.

Link

That seems late to be calling the runway in sight. Could they have been breaking through a low cloud?

[Yosemitest]

A Mooney is a fine aircraft, and one that will get you killed if you don;t think ahead of it.
But Class B airspace being the busiest,I dis agree.
Yes it's busy and more than a handful for most controllers.
But where do you think most of the compression and lineup gets done?
Take a look at Philadelphia Center, it's easy to tour because it's adjacent to the International Airport, Or Houston Center, not far from IAH (that's Bush International, just to piss off the liberals), or Phoenix Center (located in Albuquerque), or LA Center (Now there's some complex airspace, but so's the greater LA area with all those military bases and VFR low level routes).
Watch them, if they'll let you, what them do a recovery wave into any of the major hubs.
It really is fantastic to watch them control a shoestring operation of arrivals over 100 NM long and, at the same time, while continuously doing the automated handoffs to the TRACON, who continues to work the compression of arrivals, and do the standard four-post operation of separating the departures with the arrivals, as well as the low-level enroute traffic.
And guess who gets most of those departures and enroutes at the edge of the TRACON's airspace?
Center.

So crawl back into your Mooney, before you have to sell it, because you lost your Class II physical due to old age, blood pressure, diabetes, or eye problems, or a mild heart attack.
Go back to your local mentality, because you're getting older every day.
Enjoy it while you can.

[Yosemitest]

I definitely thing weather as a problem, and if the BHM was an automated weather station, a monitored computer at best like most FAA level 6 or smaller airports,
The automated computer didn't "see" the lower clouds until they were directly overhead the machine.
Thanks for the link and the input.