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Lights out: House plan would protect nation's electricity from solar flare, nuclear bomb
Washington Examiner ^ | 17 June 2013 | Paul Bedard

Posted on 06/20/2013 7:49:53 AM PDT by LSUfan

Amid growing fears of a massive electromagnetic pulse hit from either a solar flare or a terrorist nuclear bomb, House Republicans on Tuesday will unveil a plan to save the nation's electric grid from an attack that could mean lights out for 300 million Americans.

Dubbed the Secure High-voltage Infrastructure for Electricity from Lethal Damage Act, the legislation would push the federal government to install grid-saving devices such as surge protectors to protect against an attack.

"It is critical that we protect our major transformers from cascading destruction. The Shield Act encourages industry to develop standards necessary to protect our electric infrastructure against both natural and man-made EMP events," said Rep. Trent Franks, the Arizona Republican who is offering up the bipartisan bill.

Electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, has come into focus because of fears the sun is pushing out unusually big solar flares that can disrupt the electric grid. Defense officials are also worried about a terrorist attack, possibly in the form of a small nuclear bomb exploded overhead.

"This is serious stuff," said former Pentagon official Frank Gaffney, who heads the Center for Security Policy. But, he added, there is a growing bipartisan consensus to protect the electric grid.

Any EMP attack could be damaging, said Gaffney. He cited a new Lloyds of London report that determined that the area from Washington, D.C., to New York could be without electricity for up to two years in a major solar flare-up.

The legislation will be introduced Tuesday by Franks and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich at a meeting of the House EMP Caucus. Officials said that the legislation, provided in advance to Secrets, will include information from a recent EMP commission report that "contemporary U.S. society is not structured, nor does it have the means, to provide for the needs of nearly 300 million Americans without electricity.''

Gaffney told Secrets that there are some 300 huge electric transformers around the nation that control the grid and that have to be protected. "You are basically talking about surge protectors, of a somewhat exotic kind, but it is a means of interrupting the pulse," he said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: electricity; electromagneticpulse; emp; energy; nuclearterrorism; terrorism
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To: bigbob
Basically Unable to Limit Losses by Shielding Highvoltage Infrastructure Transformers

Bravo sir! LOL!

51 posted on 06/20/2013 10:05:20 AM PDT by pgkdan (Marco Rubio can go straight to hell!)
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To: TangoLimaSierra
I think we should have transformers (and other essential eq, of course) stored in Faraday cages around the country.

Spare Transformers or the existing ones? And if the transformers survive, but all the other equipment fails, what have you accomplished?

52 posted on 06/20/2013 10:06:01 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Kartographer; JRandomFreeper; yorkiemom; Old Sarge

Thread about EMP or nuclear blast over United States.

I wrote an article about this months ago, so I am posting it here. Don’t kill the messenger, I am reporting scientists in this area, plus a study for the government also done by experts.

SOLAR FLARE VS. NEMP ATTACK (Nuclear Electromagnetic Pulse)

I received an email about the possibility of a solar flare wiping out civilization during these next several years when occurrences of greater mass ejection will occur. We are in that greater mass ejection period right now. The email was a “freak out”, “the sky is falling”, kind of presentation, and, as usual, an NEMP (Nuclear Electromagnetic Pulse) attack was thrown in, too, as causing the same destruction. But, the information was incorrect about both occurrences, anyway.

Some time ago I researched solar flares and NEMP attacks to determine the difference between the two if there was one – there are differences.

Report by scientists in electromagnetic energy: I didn’t save these scientists’ discussions of the differences, but I remember them since they weren’t difficult to remember, they made sense, and made a definite impression on me due to the misinformation people have about these. The report was by scientists in electromagnetic energy, not Doomsday Preppers. Below, when considering a NEMP, is the link to the “Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack”. Part of that report, beginning on page 114, are the results of testing cars and trucks by bombarding them with electromagnetic pulses – those experiments apply to both solar flares and NEMP attack as people think a solar flare will destroy a car/truck.

Most people, I think, lump these two occurrences (solar flare, NEMP attack) together because it seems no one thinks to consider the two separate. When one thinks about it, they probably would be different in some way because one is nature and one is manmade.

Let’s consider the differences, starting with nature:

SOLAR FLARE:
According to scientists: The sun throws off a mass of “really hot stuff” to put it mildly. Here is the important part: it goes in a STRAIGHT LINE when it is thrown away from the sun. Anything in that straight line is going to be hit. Astronomers can calculate where that straight line is going, so they know if it’s going to hit earth or come close to earth, or never coming even close. These ejections happen from any part of the sun – they also vary in power and there is a scale to rate them. The possibility, maybe a slight possibility, is there that a strong straight line ejection could hit earth and we are in a time of stronger ones.

According to scientists, if one did hit earth, it’s electromagnetic properties send it straight into our electric grid. Wow, it missed your car, yes it did. It missed anything not plugged into the electric grid. Picture an arrow going into the electric grid – it doesn’t touch anything except that grid. It would fry your TV plugged into the wall. If you had a TV not plugged into the wall, it would be fine. If you have any appliance plugged into the wall that you aren’t using, for precaution right now, unplug it. It doesn’t need to be plugged in, you were just too lazy to unplug it the last time you used it, so unplug it now since you have a reason. Nothing unplugged needs to be in a Faraday Cage as it won’t be harmed. Cars/trucks/any method of conveyance not plugged into power will be okay. If you are so unlucky to have a Prius car plugged into power to recharge it’s battery at the time the flare hits power lines, it will be fried.

If you start at page 114 of the Commission report on a NEMP attack, you will find that test of cars/trucks being hit with electromagnetic charges, and very little happened and what did happen to a few was a “nuisance” factor rather than destruction of the vehicle. A few cars stopped running but ran again immediately when started again. So, even if a solar created electromagnetic pulse did hit a car/truck, they are still okay. Further on in that report, police cars and emergency vehicles (ambulances/fire trucks) were tested and the only problem was a mobile computer used to input data had to be rebooted and it was fine. The majority of people think cars and trucks will be destroyed and that is not the case. Why haven’t more people read this report? It is 181 pages long with an Appendix after that. Can people not concentrate long enough to read 181 pages so they ignore the whole thing?

The underground transit in New York City and other cities that are “plugged” in to power, will be fried.

Huge power grid transformers will be destroyed and cost a fortune so companies don’t keep many on hand – I read a figure of there are about 300 of those in this main power grid. It will take years, I read a figure of two years, to get enough of those made and here, plus other repairs to get power back on. It will be bad and preppers will do better than any other group to get through that period. People are going to die for many reasons, so many reasons there isn’t room to list them, but you all know what those reasons are – hospitals can’t function due to no power, no medicines, water, food, warmth, cooling, money, jobs, everything disrupted due to the grid down.

But, again, everything is not lost as those items not required to be plugged in, are still working – the destruction is limited to the grid. When you hear someone say nothing is going to move except horses after a solar flare hits earth, you will know that is incorrect. Something will have to be devised to distribute gasoline but government and the military will figure that out. Hmm, a huge amount of the gasoline used in this country is refined in the area around southeast Houston, in Pasadena and Baytown, and Texas City just down Hwy. 45 south of Houston. Those will be locations on the list of important places to get power working as fast as possible.

NASA’s opinion about solar flares:
NASA says a solar flare could not be strong enough to do more than disrupt satellites, likely affecting cell phones and GPS around the world, for a period of time. They don’t think one would hold together long enough to hit earth. Their opinion differs from scientists in the electromagnetic field. Who to believe? Perhaps history is the best clue: we know power was knocked out in Canada and a part of the US from a flare a number of years ago and it took time to repair/replace the damage to that grid and one many years ago took out telegraph capability – that was our most advanced technology then.

Our government is more concerned about a NEMP attack being the more likely threat. I expect that is why a commission was formed to investigate the destruction from an attack rather than one studying solar flares. They can identify enemy states right now that want our destruction, but a strong solar flare isn’t on the way.

NEMP ATTACK:
A nuclear blast in the upper atmosphere sends SCATTERED electromagnetic impulses over a region – it doesn’t go in a straight line as the solar ejection did – it’s more like an umbrella effect, pulses thrown out over a limited region. The size of the region is determined by how strong the nuclear blast is and the height of the blast and where it is in the country. The higher it is, the larger the region affected. We know from the car/truck tests, that vehicles will still run even if they are running at the time of the blast. Their prophesied failure is so engrained in preppers and others that I doubt many will accept those tests as valid. You can read how they did the tests and decide for yourself – start at page 114. Then, read the whole report and learn from it. You should read the biographies in the Appendix of the ones on the commission to determine your faith in their expertise to produce this report.

Parts of the grid, then, does go down in a NEMP. There is one other grid in this country and it’s separate from that main grid, and that is the Texas grid. I studied this years ago, pre-2000. Our grid for us Texans, is separate, plus we sell power we don’t need to Mexico so there is a physical line connection to Mexico. If Texas is outside the region limit of destruction, its grid should still work. If it is inside the destruction region, it will be fried just as the other parts of the main grid that is in the damaged zone.

This NEMP regional destruction is limited by the distance from ground zero where it went off (guess I should say it is “sky” zero instead of “ground” zero), how strong it is, and how high it is. According to scientists, a NEMP attack on the east coast will not destroy all the way to the west coast (and north/south would be included in that). If a country, such as North Korea, exploded such a weapon, the closest coast to them to hit us is the west coast so the electrical destruction would die out before it got to the east coast.

The worst area to explode one is over central USA. One report used Kansas as the worst location to affect more of the country. I didn’t read it would cover the entire US but it would also depend on the strength and height of the nuclear blast to determine the limit of destruction from over Kansas. However, that being the middle of the country, the electric grid going down in the middle of the country, could possibly prevent the west and east coast part of the grid from functioning.

If such an NEMP attack happened here, remember it is regional and that means the rest of the world’s power would keep working. Our capability to repair damage would increase rapidly if the rest of the world was operational.
Here is the link to the Commission report (a pdf file you can save on your computer if you want.)

http://empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

Faraday Cage:
I recall this was covered by the scientists and they discounted the value of them for either situation. In a solar flare situation, it likely wouldn’t be needed if the devices weren’t plugged in and the pulse is in the electric grid. Lovers of Faraday Cages will likely dispute this reasoning because they have them or love them or make them for sale. If you feel safer having your devices in a Faraday Cage right this minute, use it.

Recall the car/truck test of magnetic pulses doing no damage, or just nuisance malfunction to cars/trucks even if they were running. If they are not destroyed with all the electronic components they have, why would smaller devices with less electronic parts in them be affected?

If you have a Faraday Cage or want one, use it to be on the safe side to make yourself feel better. You should have your devices in there now as we might not know when a NEMP attack would happen. We should have notice before a solar flare gets here.

There is no doubt a solar flare hitting earth is different in result that a nuclear electromagnetic pulse attack.


53 posted on 06/20/2013 10:08:01 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: rarestia
And let’s not forget the bigger problem we’d have: out of control satellites in orbit likely falling out of orbit and back to Earth.

And hundreds and hundreds of commercial and private aircraft.

54 posted on 06/20/2013 10:14:03 AM PDT by upchuck (To the faceless, jack-booted government bureaucrat who just scanned this post: SCREW YOU!)
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To: Marcella
But, again, everything is not lost as those items not required to be plugged in, are still working – the destruction is limited to the grid. When you hear someone say nothing is going to move except horses after a solar flare hits earth, you will know that is incorrect. Something will have to be devised to distribute gasoline but government and the military will figure that out.

So every pump, motor, fan, switchgear, relay, control system, instrument, etc is that was making gasoline is going to be fried, and you still think we will be making gasoline in any significant quantity even a year later?

55 posted on 06/20/2013 10:17:24 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
This has not been my experience. While I have installed 20,000 HP VFD's, they are extremely rare.

The chemical plants where I worked were full of them, even on small motors. They paid for themselves in power savings, control, and motor sizing.

I would estimate more than 90% of the pumps and fans in chemical plants, pipeline pump/compressor stations and refineries do not have VFD's.

They're wasting a lot of power.

56 posted on 06/20/2013 10:21:16 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: Convert, submit, or die.)
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To: thackney
“and you still think we will be making gasoline in any significant quantity even a year later?”

I have no idea how long it would take to get a gasoline plant on line, I’m saying it would be a priority.

57 posted on 06/20/2013 10:21:30 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: thackney

Cost estimates to harden the grid are $300-$500 million. Chump change. Obama is spending $100 mil on his grand America Sucks tour part three.


58 posted on 06/20/2013 10:23:08 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Marcella
Parts of the grid, then, does go down in a NEMP. There is one other grid in this country and it’s separate from that main grid, and that is the Texas grid. I studied this years ago, pre-2000. Our grid for us Texans, is separate, plus we sell power we don’t need to Mexico so there is a physical line connection to Mexico.

The West is also separated from the East. All have multiple DC link electrical connections.


59 posted on 06/20/2013 10:28:27 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

forget every, what’s our ability to mass produce small transformers here? I mean they are everywhere so I’m guessing we have a fair amount of ability to produce them, but I have no idea how long it would take to replace a large percentage of the existing ones.

this is why having the large and midsize ones may not do people much good if their neighborhood ones can’t be replaced.


60 posted on 06/20/2013 10:32:09 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Marcella

the cars and trucks may still work, but the electric gas pumps (on grid power) won’t.


61 posted on 06/20/2013 10:36:00 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Carry_Okie
They're wasting a lot of power.

It depends on the application. When you have a cooling fan bank of 20 fans, they turn on/off each individual fan.

Smaller banks, say 2~4 may have one VFD, switchable between more than one fan.

Motors can have a much lower efficiency outside their rated design point. It is be more cost effective in some cases to break up the service into multiple pumps. This also helps in a N+1 type redundancy that allows individual motor/service to be taken out of service while doing maintenance and keeping production up.

Most refinery service is designed for a specific flow rate. No only the pumps, but the separators, piping, reactors, etc all run at a set, non-varying rate for many services. There is not a need to vary, but a need to design the proper size head vs flow in the impeller and it runs there for a decade.

62 posted on 06/20/2013 10:36:15 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Secret Agent Man
forget every, what’s our ability to mass produce small transformers here? I mean they are everywhere so I’m guessing we have a fair amount of ability to produce them, but I have no idea how long it would take to replace a large percentage of the existing ones.

Like most industries, we meet current demand with some flexibility. But while the industry might produce ~5% of the current inventory on a yearly basis, they don't have the equipment, materials or labor for an order of magnitude increase. What industry does?

this is why having the large and midsize ones may not do people much good if their neighborhood ones can’t be replaced.

And reality is a lot more than transformers will need replacing.

63 posted on 06/20/2013 10:39:10 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Georgia Girl 2
Cost estimates to harden the grid are $300-$500 million.

Can you point me to a decent technical evaluation that makes such a claim? I don't believe that amount would make any significant difference.

64 posted on 06/20/2013 10:40:47 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

But how are we going to protect electricity production from Obama policies?


65 posted on 06/20/2013 10:41:36 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Marcella

If you have an EMP event over the Eastern side of Houston (ship channel), that fries nearly every electrical device connected to the power grid, we wouldn’t be near restored for years.


66 posted on 06/20/2013 10:42:46 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Marcella
I'd like to join Commander Riker in applauding your most excellent post:

And I copied and snagged the report, for future use...

67 posted on 06/20/2013 10:44:52 AM PDT by Old Sarge (My "KMA List" is growing daily...)
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To: Marcella
This one shows the ties outside the different Reliability Areas.


Click to enlarge

68 posted on 06/20/2013 10:46:01 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

oh definitely there will be other things besides transformers that need replacing no question. I’m just trying to get an idea of how the timeframe of how long it’d take us to replace most of the transformers working at this moment. I didn’t even think we had much capacity for the midsize or larger ones because prior discussions stated we get those mostly from overseas now.


69 posted on 06/20/2013 10:46:22 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“the cars and trucks may still work, but the electric gas pumps (on grid power) won’t.”

That is absolutely true, and we will be stuck in place when our gasoline tank is empty (got water/food) but when the grid is finally fixed, the cars and trucks won’t be dead pieces of junk and that is a big advantage.

Also, if it’s an EMP attack, hopefully, part of the US will still work and maybe there will be a refining plant in that section.


70 posted on 06/20/2013 10:47:18 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Marcella
when the grid is finally fixed, the cars and trucks won’t be dead pieces of junk

You are missing the point that it takes a heck of a lot more than restoring the grid to restoring the gasoline supply.

71 posted on 06/20/2013 10:50:10 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

“If you have an EMP event over the Eastern side of Houston (ship channel), that fries nearly every electrical device connected to the power grid, we wouldn’t be near restored for years.”

That is true. I know the ship channel area.


72 posted on 06/20/2013 10:50:54 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Marcella

I’m looking at it out my office window.


73 posted on 06/20/2013 10:52:04 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Secret Agent Man

My point, if your truck burns to the ground, replacing the engine doesn’t replace a functioning truck.


74 posted on 06/20/2013 10:54:10 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Old Sarge
“I'd like to join Commander Riker in applauding your most excellent post:”

Oh, wow, that's the first time Commander Riker awarded me an applause. I am honored.

75 posted on 06/20/2013 10:54:59 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: thackney

That is an interesting map.


76 posted on 06/20/2013 10:55:55 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: thackney

Well then, we can all be thankful for ethanol.


77 posted on 06/20/2013 10:56:35 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Marcella

Any information in your research on the transmission of such an event through the DC ties?


78 posted on 06/20/2013 10:57:14 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Mr. Lucky

I’ll be thankful I now own a horse.


79 posted on 06/20/2013 10:57:44 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

you didn’t need to clarify, i understand the point.


80 posted on 06/20/2013 10:58:03 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

.......................do you believe that the various us companies here have the ability and capacity to replace a large number of large and’mid-size transformers within a couple’months if we have a major emp incident?..............

But first they will need to replace all their equipment that runs on electricity, all their computers and test equipment, all their communications gear, the equipment from their suppliers, the trucks or trains that will carry the transformers to the site, and arrange somehow to get their starving workforce to the plant, maybe on horse drawn buggys.


81 posted on 06/20/2013 10:59:28 AM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: thackney

“You are missing the point that it takes a heck of a lot more than restoring the grid to restoring the gasoline supply.”

I’m not missing the point - I should have stated that sentence to include the refining plants repairs:

“when the grid is finally fixed and refining plants repaired, the cars and trucks won’t be dead pieces of junk”

I lived around NASA in the Clear Lake area for over sixteen years and a family member worked in the Texas City refining business. I truly do know how vital that area is to refining oil.


82 posted on 06/20/2013 11:01:18 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I think those urging their congressmen to do something about this don’t understand.

Cheers!


83 posted on 06/20/2013 11:01:36 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Noob1999

you are assuming nothing nexessary for repairs will be working. that’s not a good assumption. far too little will probably not be working, but some of everything probably will.


84 posted on 06/20/2013 11:01:49 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: thackney

Probably right. But having extra units around to be swapped in, when needed, that does save time in this one area, as you say it can take a long time to build large transformers, so if that part isn’t one extra problem to solve then, they can focus on the rest of the problems that will certainly need fixing.


85 posted on 06/20/2013 11:03:57 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: thackney
Then you, too, may eventually be faced with the dilemma of “food or transportation”.
86 posted on 06/20/2013 11:06:41 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: thackney
It depends on the application. When you have a cooling fan bank of 20 fans, they turn on/off each individual fan.

With a VFD you can do the same job with a smaller motor simply because it doesn't have to be sized for startup loads.

Motors can have a much lower efficiency outside their rated design point.

Precisely my point. The power factor losses for which a capacitor is meant to compensate are only an estimate of load. A VFD can adjust for same much more accurately in real time.

87 posted on 06/20/2013 11:08:31 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: Convert, submit, or die.)
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To: Marcella

Honestly, if such an event occurs, that in a major portion of the US destroyed nearly every non-hardened electrical device, we would have a lot bigger problems than gasoline.

Picture the Eastern seaboard without a working refrigerator, microwave, oven and stove. Now add in every grocery store unable to refrigerate, sell, or order food. And all restaurants cannot function.

Now add none of the water pumps work.

Would it really be much different than a Zombie Apocalypse at that point?


88 posted on 06/20/2013 11:08:37 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
“I’m looking at it out my office window.”

Good, you're the number one man to single handedly save all those plants when you know an EMP is coming or North Korea calls you that those plants are soon to be toast. :o)

89 posted on 06/20/2013 11:09:56 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: thackney

BTW, with costs for electricity as high as they are in California, we have much more incentive to invest in even small power savings than in Texas for example.


90 posted on 06/20/2013 11:09:57 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: Convert, submit, or die.)
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To: thackney

“Any information in your research on the transmission of such an event through the DC ties?”

Explain to me what you mean by that.


91 posted on 06/20/2013 11:11:21 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Carry_Okie
With a VFD you can do the same job with a smaller motor simply because it doesn't have to be sized for startup loads.

That didn't make any sense to me. And I've sized a lot of motors for process applications.

Pumps develop most of their load under mass flow. Fans develop most of their load as they come up to full speed. A VFD can adjust for same much more accurately in real time.

In a throttling type application, with a varying process, that is quite true. But in steady state applications, the pump/motor are select for 100% run speed and a VFD would only add losses at that point. That is why efficient applications that do vary, and come up to full speed for long times include VFD bypasses.

92 posted on 06/20/2013 11:16:34 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
“Picture the Eastern seaboard without a working refrigerator, microwave, oven and stove. Now add in every grocery store unable to refrigerate, sell, or order food. And all restaurants cannot function. Now add none of the water pumps work. Would it really be much different than a Zombie Apocalypse at that point?”

It would surely be a Zombie Apocalypse. Add to that the death of most people in hospitals.

That is one of the reasons why I am a prepper. My standard of living will still go on if power goes down here.

93 posted on 06/20/2013 11:18:22 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Gaffer
yeah...show me a surge protector that can protect against a few mega billion EVs of instantaneous surge.

One surge protector, no.

Having a surge protector on each house's incoming line, that would primarily guard against lightning surge, wouldn't hurt.

94 posted on 06/20/2013 11:21:51 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Marcella

Ercot is not electrically isolated from the other grids. The ties are AC-DC-AC so that the systems are not synchronized and stability of one system doesn’t affect the other.

But the electrical connections are constant through the DC ties. The switches are not left open, they are kept closed to help stabilize power flow through an asynchronous connection. At different times of the day, power may flow one way or another, but the legal requirements require a balance of flow to/from, I think averaged over 24 hours.


95 posted on 06/20/2013 11:25:44 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Marcella

I’ll be loading the guns and ammo on my horse and headed to the Lake.

Good Luck!


96 posted on 06/20/2013 11:27:18 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

“I’ll be loading the guns and ammo on my horse and headed to the Lake. Good Luck!”

Hmm, that could be Lake Houston, Conroe Lake, or Lake Livingston, maybe.

I’ll lock my front door, and we can get in touch afterward.


97 posted on 06/20/2013 11:41:00 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Marcella
Hmm, that could be Lake Houston, Conroe Lake, or Lake Livingston

Farther travel. Our future retirement will be on Toledo Bend. It is rather isolated, and not connected to the grid. Of course today, there is darn little there to connect.

98 posted on 06/20/2013 11:46:12 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: MrB

Well if Barry gets his way we won’t need protection. As far as I know candles are impervious to EMP. :-)


99 posted on 06/20/2013 12:00:31 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: thackney

“Can you point me to a decent technical evaluation that makes such a claim? I don’t believe that amount would make any significant difference.”

Just Google it. This issue has been fairly widely reported. There are several studies and article about it readily available online.


100 posted on 06/20/2013 12:01:57 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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