Posted on 02/01/2013 11:10:25 AM PST by fishtank
The real problem is the DNA coding. There are no transitional forms that make the case of macro evolution. Darwinism was replaced with chemical evolution in upper level biology. As that proves unsatisfactory, (happening now,) it will be replaced with something else. Science is rarely static.
As requested, the last paragraph from "Origin of the Species" :
"It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the external conditions of life, and from use and disuse; a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."
No "always" there - Darwin says only that all current complex species evolved from previous simpler ones, not that all previous simple ones evolved toward greater complexity.
ALWAYS?! really, that is the criteria? It is a silly argument anyway since we now know we need to deal with the complexities of digital DNA code, which is why I would expect no macro change at all. Just as was observed.
ALWAYS?! really, that is the criteria? It is a silly argument anyway since we now know we need to deal with the complexities of digital DNA code, which is why I would expect no macro change at all. Just as was observed.
[PapaBear3625:] The premise is false. We still have bacteria and other single-celled organisms. Evolution does not result in more complex organisms, it results in organisms that are better at surviving in their ecological niche, though the mechanism of less-capable organisms dying off. An organism that does well-enough in its niche will stay mostly unchanged.
[fishtank:] The premise is accurate if you are discussing Darwinian evolution.
What PapaBear3625 posted sounds thoroughly Darwinian to me. Do you have a quotation of Darwin where he says life always evolves toward greater complexity?
ALWAYS?! really, that is the criteria?
It is for fishtank's original claim above to be true.
It is a silly argument anyway since we now know we need to deal with the complexities of digital DNA code, which is why I would expect no macro change at all.
Why would you expect that?
The trick is differentiating between the two.
The lack of transitional forms is one of the great embarrassments of evolution. Advancements in our understanding cannot go forward until we are able to deal with this issue in a straight forward manner.
Would you characterize the difference between a mose and a rat as a micro or a macro change?
Modern evolutionary theory agrees that the vast majority of mutations result in nonviable organisms - so macro changes, as accumulations of micro mutations that are not only viable but advantageous, take a very long time.
For example if we look at proteins, the basic molecular machines of life. The average protein has a specificity of 10exp480 out of all the different protein possibilities about 10exp5 of them are used in life, and this does not include denatured forms. Frankly, there is not enough material or time in the universe to make it even remotely possible for a single protein to be created by random chance. Luckily all the information to produce a protein is carried in the DNA and a protein can be created by those instructions within a living cell. Of course, you can see the problem right there. Where did the living cell come from. Since there is not enough material or time, we may conclude that the information necessary came from outside of space time. How ones deals with information that comes from outside our perceivable 4 dimensional existence is up to the individual, and far exceeds the scope of the field of biology.
These prove that whales have evolved into whales.
Creation of a protein has nothing to do with "macro change." And evolution explicitly denies that biomolecules came about through "random chance" but says that at every stage those with a survival advantage were favored over others.
I digressed. The problem ith any theory of evolution is time, which was my point. There are only 10exp28 nanoseconds in the history of the universe. There is not enough time to account for even the simplest changes in macro evolution.
How does evolution say that bio molecules came about then, if not by random chance? Unless, of course, you are now proceeding from Darwinism to Chemical evolution. Which was in one of my earlier posts.
Perhaps. You have yet to demonstrate that this is true - although evolutionists have not demonstrated that it is false.
How does evolution say that bio molecules came about then, if not by random chance?
Already answered in my previous post: 'And evolution explicitly denies that biomolecules came about through "random chance" but says that at every stage those with a survival advantage were favored over others.'
Unless, of course, you are now proceeding from Darwinism to Chemical evolution.
No real difference - chemical evolution is now understood to be the mechanism by which Darwinian evolution occurs.
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