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We're now one step closer to America's coming civil war
Fox News ^ | 01-03-013 | Arthur Herman

Posted on 01/05/2013 1:11:56 PM PST by HogsBreath

The New Year has started with a monstrosity of a budget deal, one that proves that neither political party, Democrats or Republicans, is really serious about controlling the growth of big government. But soap opera dramatics about fiscal "cliffs" and sequestration shouldn’t deflect from where President Obama is really taking this country. Consider this story from the Wall Street Journal a few days before Christmas:

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: civilwar; cwii; politics
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I am really surprised to see a mainstream news source actually use the words 'Civil War'.
1 posted on 01/05/2013 1:12:12 PM PST by HogsBreath
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To: HogsBreath; Jack Black

Bookmark Bump and possible CWII ping.


2 posted on 01/05/2013 1:15:27 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: HogsBreath

“When big government wins, we all lose...”


3 posted on 01/05/2013 1:25:25 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set...)
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To: HogsBreath

Yeah, I was surprised to see that as well.

It’s a very good article too.


4 posted on 01/05/2013 1:27:59 PM PST by Longbow1969
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To: HogsBreath

At the time Mr Etch-a-sketch made the 47% comment I was amung that number. I didn’t want to be. I think there are a lot of people who realize who’s taking their prosperity away. I think even some OWS people could make allies once they realize who enables the ultra-rich.


5 posted on 01/05/2013 1:28:33 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Nowhere Man

The real civil division is the loss of the reasonable social consensus that once united America. Today values ,practices and expectations are so different between the two main groups in America that division is already defacto. Neither side shares values, likes or respects the other and each prefers as little social interaction as possible. They even prefer living in different areas. Real organized violence against each other? Doubtful. However unified action whether it involve domestic or foreign affairs will be very rare.


6 posted on 01/05/2013 1:28:53 PM PST by allendale
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To: HogsBreath

One paragraph sums up the failure of the welfare state:

Far from adding to people’s standard of living, government is the number one cause of poverty in this country. It forces those who depend on its largesse to live hand to mouth, with no time or money to plan for the future. They become unable to fend for themselves-—and increasingly resentful of those who can.

If the Civil War happens, I hope people realize just how bad it is going to be. This won’t be some regional conflict like the Union vs the Confederacy where there is a “home front” (at least until the war criminal Sherman arrived) to safely leave the women and children.

This will be Kosovo, with neighbor killing neighbor, and a trip to the store will be an expedition into a kill zone and back. This will make your typical frame home with drywall into a death trap until you line the inside with sandbags.

But, the imminent failure of the US credit-based economy and the 47% who live on that gummint teat can only take us down one road because that government has done everything it can to set the makers vs the takers at odds for the last 10 years. No one is willing to sacrifice a single luxury to fill another’s needs anymore. The battles lines have been drawn and we’re just waiting for the event that fires the first shot. (99 Luftballoons anyone??)


7 posted on 01/05/2013 1:29:12 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

“It forces those who depend on its largesse to live hand to mouth, with no time or money to plan for the future. They become unable to fend for themselves-—and increasingly resentful of those who can.”

This is very much the case with our permanent welfare class and illegals, and is spreading into those private-sector workers who are getting shafted with unnecessary H1-B replacements.


8 posted on 01/05/2013 1:34:36 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: HogsBreath
The article's author, Arthur Herman, wrote "Freedom's Forge: How American Business Produced Victory in World War II." I read his book late last year and HIGHLY recommend it. FDR was initially strongly in favor of a centrally-planned government-led effort to produce the munitions and equipment needed to fight WW II. Eventually he came around to understanding that free enterprise was needed to build the equipment and the key was to quickly award government contracts to companies. Automobile magnate William Knudsen and shipbuilder Henry J. Kaiser were strong leaders of the effort to marshall US enterprises to win the war. It is an outstanding story about how America USED to be able to do great things quickly. Regarding the article, headlines usually are not written by the article's author. In this case, the headline is rather sensational and doesn't really flow from the thesis of the article. But the article's fifth paragraph starts off with "Some have said my warnings about a coming civil war between makers and takers are exaggerated." So it does seem that Mr. Herman is definitely predicting a coming civil war in other writings.
9 posted on 01/05/2013 1:37:00 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: HogsBreath

Bump


10 posted on 01/05/2013 1:39:33 PM PST by Popman
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To: ProtectOurFreedom; HogsBreath
I just found that Mr. Herman wrote "America's coming civil war -- makers vs. takers" which was published July 12, 2012 on FoxNews.com.
11 posted on 01/05/2013 1:40:22 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: kearnyirish2

This is purposely being done by the Left to stay in power. Should be a breach of fiduciary, but the government scoffs at that now.


12 posted on 01/05/2013 1:42:31 PM PST by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.")
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To: HogsBreath
"Washington’s Republicans and Democrats alike have become the toll collectors on the road to serfdom–and the road to Rosario."

Not unlike this meme:

"Every year, the outlaws swing out of the trees, rob the merchants and ride back to Washington D.C. for a glorious feast..." Sultan Knish

13 posted on 01/05/2013 1:44:36 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Travis McGee
You know those hopes of yours - for your work to be looked back on, in some prosperous future, as the writings of a crackpot?

I have bad news...

14 posted on 01/05/2013 1:45:10 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: HogsBreath
". . . some key [events] exacerbated the national debate, fraying trust, and national cohesion just a little more each time . . . The two-party system that had governed America . . . began to fall apart . . . interest in politics took the place of all other forms of news-related entertainment . . . politicians were the celebrities . . . [Politics/ideology] was becoming such a habit, the reactions so automatic, that [journalists] taking sides on every news story became inevitable."

.. I just can't avoid thinking about this from for Love & Liberty by Robin Young and it's about 1857 America.

15 posted on 01/05/2013 1:47:11 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Hoosier-Daddy

The Republicans have to support the grass-roots tax revolt of the TEA Party; I don’t see how else they stay relevant.

Here in NJ we’ve laid off thousands of cops (and teachers and firemen) because we simply can’t afford them. Governor Christie took the steps locally that the Dems refuse to take nationally, to keep our state somewhat affordable.

Every laid-off cop is one less soldier for the left...


16 posted on 01/05/2013 1:48:03 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: HogsBreath
If this were to happen, could it be the trigger for the liberals to steal our 401K retirement funds?

I don't want to be enslaved for the rest of my life. But I don't want to give them the opportunity to steal my life savings.

17 posted on 01/05/2013 1:54:32 PM PST by A Cyrenian (Timothy Geithner - proving TurboTax is not idiot proof.)
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To: HogsBreath
Duplicate (FR title search).

We're now one step closer to America's coming civil war
01/04/2013 9:35:28 AM PST · by RoosterRedux · 78 replies FoxNews.com ^ | 12/3/2012 | Arthur Herman

I'm not surprised about Fox News publishing that at all, though. Rupert Murdoch said that he's in favor of gun control and might be in favor of further scaring folks of his class into supporting it.


18 posted on 01/05/2013 1:56:22 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: HogsBreath
Rupert Murdoch, Fox News Owner, Calls for Automatic Weapons Ban
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2969123/posts

Murdoch calls for automatic weapons ban
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2968913/posts


19 posted on 01/05/2013 1:58:29 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Bryanw92

I am sure the author is using attention grabbing words with the hope of selling more books, but I am afraid of the power of self-fulfilling prophecy. However, we can only go so long ignoring the elephant in the room.


20 posted on 01/05/2013 2:03:46 PM PST by HogsBreath
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To: familyop

Bummer...I searched by the authors name, the phrase one step closer and the words civil war and nothing came back.


21 posted on 01/05/2013 2:05:49 PM PST by HogsBreath
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To: HogsBreath

I’m watching `The Patriot’ on AMC, Mel’s character is cradling his dying son in his arms.
No one wants anything like that again. At the same time, I hope the Democrats realize that we Americans will keep our liberties.


22 posted on 01/05/2013 2:12:57 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: HogsBreath
I think the "makers vs. takers" is all wrong.. there are lots of makers (billionaires even) and millions of "takers" who side with the ruling class New Normal and our Founders' ideal America, respectively.

The civil war is not going to start because the "takers" didn't get their gov'ment checks except maybe if the ruling class New Normal uses that to agitate and spark unrest.

Before the country is so bad off financially it's likely that the civil war starts over

The progressives' New Normal ruling elite

I remember them.

The 1960s Marxist-Alinsky campus radical, psycho spoiled brats were celebrated in the establishment MSM as the most intelligent generation ever!. They are now arguably that very establishment that praised them and they hold themselves and their ideological issue in even higher regard.

23 posted on 01/05/2013 2:18:11 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: HogsBreath

Doesn’t really bother me at all and didn’t mean to make that look like any kind of scorn. The publishing of that was an interesting thing for me to ponder, too.

Then I found out about all of the big shot moguls on the left who want to violate our Second Amendment because of their guilts and fears. Too bad that they can’t get out enough to get more in touch with physical realities and the classes of people that they are so afraid of (white collar middle and technically inclined, former private sector blue collar).

Even most of the Democrats are in favor of Second Amendment freedoms, and AR-type rifles are in style. While looking for tech. stuff on firearms (more rural-oriented stuff for old fogies like me, out here, in the middle of nowhere: bolt action ballistics, optics, etc.), I spotted a pro-Second-Amendment thread in a hit from DU, then another and another.

In one thread, an anti-Second-Amendment chick was trying to argue with a multitude of other lefties talking about AR tech. stuff. Same with the hippies around me on the Rockies. They like plinking with the new superphlasmatic, tacticool rifles, developing their “organic” gardens, their building contracting and other pursuits of self-sufficiency. They’re okay, I guess, except for their likely pot smoking. ;-)

We, as middle and lower class people, won’t really bite the money moguls, although too many of us will be poorer within a couple of years or so (default, etc.). But we, as a nation, do need to be rid of the regulations—local and federal—against private building projects and new, small manufacturing shops on our own private properties.


24 posted on 01/05/2013 2:22:33 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Bryanw92
This will make your typical frame home with drywall into a death trap until you line the inside with sandbags.

Thanks for the reminder! There are innocent people who died in Oakland, not from direct attack, but gangs shooting at each other with errant bullets hitting nearby homes. Totally innocent people in their homes, thinking they're protected by walls. Maybe time to stock up on more 3/4 inch plywood, at least it's some extra protection from smaller rounds.

25 posted on 01/05/2013 2:30:33 PM PST by roadcat
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To: Bryanw92

Here’s a link to a great article on dependence:

http://glenmeakem.com/2012/03/29/are-you-free-or-caged/


26 posted on 01/05/2013 2:32:12 PM PST by RS_Rider (I hate Illinois Nazis)
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To: HogsBreath

I really belive a Civil War will be more like a third world takeover....

Some military leaders will revolt and take charge of the government, throwing out the current two branches, probably leaving the Supremes in place for both continuity and legitimacy...

There would be general support from the populace....

What would happen after that is anyones guess, I would hope na return to a constitutional republic....


27 posted on 01/05/2013 2:34:54 PM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: HogsBreath

You mean Ole Barry is the Eva Peron of America!!!! KEWL


28 posted on 01/05/2013 2:39:19 PM PST by exnavy (Fish or cut bait ...Got ammo, Godspeed!)
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To: tumblindice
I’m watching `The Patriot’ on AMC, Mel’s character is cradling his dying son in his arms. No one wants anything like that again. At the same time, I hope the Democrats realize that we Americans will keep our liberties.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

29 posted on 01/05/2013 3:12:04 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: HogsBreath

This is what I'll be wearing when it happens.

30 posted on 01/05/2013 3:15:09 PM PST by rabidralph (http://www.cafepress.com/westernwis)
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To: nevergore

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/


31 posted on 01/05/2013 3:17:23 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (The only thing to stop a bad person with a gun, is a good person with a gun.)
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To: Wisconsinlady

Thank you!


32 posted on 01/05/2013 3:20:24 PM PST by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: allendale

Much of America’s social consensus was built on living and abiding by the ideals of freedom - self defense, self control, independence/self reliance. The liberals have now “progressed” beyond the legal and power constraints of the constitution without the consent of the people.

It’s dang scarey. With their “citizen of the world” globalist rule ideology, I knew the rubber would hit the road sooner or later. They have taken on the attitude of a ruling class - like foreigners.

American freedom and independence is an absolute opposite ideology from globalism. We had a war of independence with a globalist king one time. I guess that is where we are headed again. : (


33 posted on 01/05/2013 3:48:17 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Charles Martel

We have to do what we can to warn off the socialists.


34 posted on 01/05/2013 4:09:27 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: demshateGod
Gotcher Mr. Etch-a-Sketch right freakin heeerrr:



35 posted on 01/05/2013 4:40:28 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
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To: A Cyrenian

I’ve been hearing about that coming move, for 2yrs or more...

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=govt+to+take+401k&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest


36 posted on 01/05/2013 4:55:13 PM PST by carriage_hill ("I meant to say maggot, but I have a lisp.")
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To: HogsBreath

Seems a word of caution is due here. If the MSM is talking civil war we may be looking at a trap. Is that what Obama wants in order to declare marshal law?


37 posted on 01/05/2013 5:08:27 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Is that what Obama wants in order to declare marshal law?

Who is marshal and what does his law say?
38 posted on 01/05/2013 5:30:06 PM PST by jy8z (From the next to last exit before the end of the internet.)
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To: jy8z
>>Who is marshal and what does his law say?<<

Ooops! Martial law ~:-(

39 posted on 01/05/2013 6:17:30 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: HogsBreath

The media is talking civil war.
The media talked about Kosovo, what happened?
The media talked about Iraq, what happened?
The media talked about Mogadishu, what happened?

Every time the media started beating the drum, the administration of that moment, did something.

Now, we all know full well, how much the media loves John Q. and Jane Q. Public. But, yet, THEY are the ones beating the drum?

There are no true ‘sides’ in a civil war, even with the nastiness we once suffered. There will be leaders. There will be martyrs to Freedom. (Let’s face it, the ones that are the root cause of this, do NOT want to get hurt, but would buy the popcorn.) There wil be profiteers, like that guy who owned that boat, in the movie Josey Wales.

As far as the media is concerned, in a fantasy situation, they would fighting each other, for the best coverage, with the bullets overhead, like ol’ Connie Chung did. I do not see one of them, at all, doing anything but what suits them, and their broadcaster, Freedom be damned.


40 posted on 01/05/2013 6:58:15 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: tumblindice

Another factor - smaller family sizes. People are less willing to let their children go to war when it is a one and only child or only son.


41 posted on 01/05/2013 7:10:38 PM PST by tbw2
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To: Terry L Smith

The federal government has bought/is buying something like 1.5 billion HOLLOW POINT bullets. Hollow points are for doing ONE thing: killing people.

It’s not that 0bama is ‘worried’ about civil unrest/war. He’s COUNTING ON it. He has a minigun in an SUV trailing him. 2000 rounds/minute. He has a limo that can take RPGs and chemical. He has a new bunker at the White House. He has new planes and helicopters.

He and Jarrett have ammo’d up. For a reason.


42 posted on 01/05/2013 7:18:43 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: A Cyrenian

The country will be ripped like Greece with riots and looting. The Civil War will move when the States start to step in —Out of the confusion a neo-nazi group will seize power. He will bring order but at a cost.


43 posted on 01/05/2013 7:39:46 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: combat_boots
Do these Libyans or these with guns like these

look like 'military forces' 'on a battlefield' to you? 20,000 US MANPADS vs 4 dead Americans (including an ambassador But hey, 'he got what he deserved, even if it wasn't 'optimal.'

). Just so this guy and his minions can disarm, control, and seize the property and lives of these people Don't these people look scary bad? You know. Like t e r r o r I s t s? Ask HER
44 posted on 01/05/2013 7:45:22 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: roadcat
One could always replace the lower four feet of dry wall with 1/4 or 3/8 plate, then texture it and paint it over for than regular wall look.

Migt have to reinforce the floors, lol.

45 posted on 01/05/2013 7:50:13 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: going hot

I’ll stick to 3/4 inch plywood, much cheaper. I’ve bought sheet metal for my shear/bender and it is very expensive - thick plate is much too expensive to do perimeter walls. Good idea of yours for the front door and under the main front windows. Ha-ha, if things got that hot, probably better to bug out to a safer locale. Only have so much ammo and can’t stand the thought of being burned out!


46 posted on 01/05/2013 9:29:39 PM PST by roadcat
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To: Paladin2

I had a great laugh yesterday at the expense of a young woman who called into Rush crying about her two sets of twins and the extra $138 a paycheck they could not afford for obastardcare. Toughskyshitsky.

Rush calls them low information voters. That is far too charitable. Stupid is more likely.

Life is tough. It’s even tougher when you’re stupid.

I am going to laugh at these fools as long as I can because out situation will soon cease to have any humor in it at all.


47 posted on 01/05/2013 9:57:31 PM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Bryanw92
One paragraph sums up the failure of the welfare state:

Far from adding to people’s standard of living, government is the number one cause of poverty in this country. It forces those who depend on its largesse to live hand to mouth, with no time or money to plan for the future.

I see it a bit differently - the government gives them too much of our money and keeps their standard of living too high to be inducive to finding a way to improve their lot. If we made them literally subsist with no cars, no TV 9excpet maybe a 13" Black and White), no cable, no computer/on-line service, etc., they would be more worried about finding a job (or weeding themselves out by trying to take stuff from others). We don't keep them too low, we keep them too high and comfortable.

48 posted on 01/06/2013 2:46:21 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: nevergore; HogsBreath; Wisconsinlady
nevergore: "I really belive a Civil War will be more like a third world takeover....
Some military leaders will revolt and take charge of the government.."

Where in the world does a meme like this come from, the movies?
That meme is so un-American, indeed anti-American, I can't believe people infected with it, such as nevergore, truly are American.
Did you go to school in this country, nevergore?
Did you learn any US history, or was your mind corrupted by some other education?

The US military is not going to "revolt and take charge of the government", because, first of all, no military person would issue or follow such illegal orders, and second, the US military already has a seat at the tables of power in Washington, with enough global missions to keep them plenty busy doing their constitutional jobs, much less even imagining "taking charge of the government".

So I'll ask again: where did such an idiotic idea come from?
What movie did you watch, what school teaches such nonsense?

From Wisconsinlady's link to Oath Keepers: "5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union."

Those ten Orders We Will Not Obey are all great stuff, but least we forget, this one in particular needs a some context.
The US Civil War did not begin just because several states "asserted their sovereignty" and "declared the national government to be in violation of the compact..."
Rather, it began because the newly formed government of those states immediately started and formally declared war on the United States, in April and May of 1861.
Before that formal declaration of war, there was no US invasion, no subjugation and indeed, not a single Confederate soldier had been killed directly by combat with the US military.

So, a state's "declaration of sovereignty" and "breech of compact" in and of itself might be entirely constitutional.
But, if these are followed by numerous unlawful acts -- as spelled out in the US Constitution -- of rebellion, insurrection, "domestic violence", invasions of Federal property, declarations of war and treason, then the results will be the same as General Washington offered British Cornwallis at Yorktown, Grant offered Lee at Appomattox, and Roosevelt offered the Axis powers in World War II: unconditional surrender.

So don't even think about it.

49 posted on 01/06/2013 6:15:03 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: HogsBreath

Behind the scenes there is a massive push to harp on those very words to create hype and ad revenue, right at this very moment they are having strategy meetings on what best products to make pitches for that are correlated to a civil war.

Clothing and fashion?

Subliminal marketing aimed for renaissance Civil War colors?

You get my drift, they are hyping this just so they can create attention spans of viewers and possible ad convinced consumers.


50 posted on 01/06/2013 6:20:44 AM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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