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U.S. general: Obama paralyzed by fear (author is MOH winner)
http://www.wnd.com ^ | November 4, 2012 | Maj Gen Patrick Brady, US Army (Ret)

Posted on 12/28/2012 9:07:56 PM PST by NKP_Vet

Now I understand! For years, many veterans and active military have been alarmed about the idiocy of the changes in battlefield aeromedical evacuation known as Dust Off. For reasons having nothing to do with patient care, Dust Off has been removed from the control of the professionals, the medics, and put under the control of amateurs, aviation staff officers, or ASOs. This is the first such change since the Civil War.

I document the unparalleled excellence of Dust Off, and the effects of the changes, in my book, “Dead Men Flying.” Needless to say, it was the most outstanding battlefield operating system of that war – some one million souls saved and unprecedented survival rates. No warrior of Vietnam is more revered than the Dust Off crews.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: sourcetitlenoturl
The general makes a good point about the communist and Panetta not having a clue about military operations. The four Americans murdered in Benghazi are testament to their incompetence. Both should be charged with dereliction of duty, which directly led to the deaths of these Americans, which could have been prevented.
1 posted on 12/28/2012 9:08:02 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Do you think we will find out what Obama was doing during Benghazi, and who gave the stand down order, and what their reasoning was?


2 posted on 12/28/2012 9:18:23 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: NKP_Vet

All great presidential have a ton of operational experience. Obama has no operational experience.


3 posted on 12/28/2012 9:19:30 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: The_Media_never_lie

A dead ambassador cannot as easily testify at a congressional hearing as a live one can.


4 posted on 12/28/2012 9:24:57 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: NKP_Vet

Obama doesn’t give a damn about anything other than the destruction of The United States. If by some miracle he is forced out before a third term, I’m convinced he’ll retire to Indonesia...with or without his supposed family.


5 posted on 12/28/2012 9:28:25 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Jonty30

Or they are capable of learning how. Lincoln had none, except a short time in the Black Hawk War. But he seems to have enjoyed it. He was not a hunter, but a good shot and good horseman. At times, after his generals failed him, he thought of taking to the field him ,as no President since George Washington had. One reason he liked Grant was because Grant took the fight to the enemy. One reason why he brought Grant to Washington and made him Lieutenant-general—that is the right arm of the President was that he had carefully studied how to take Vicksburg. He even had a plan in mind, which he revealed in a letter to Grant. When Grant sprung the surprise that trapped the Confederates, he also surprised Lincoln, who admiringly conceded to Grant that he was wrong and Grant was right. He knew then he had a commander like Robert E..Lee to match Lee.


6 posted on 12/28/2012 9:38:17 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: onedoug

Agreed. I continue to be outright shocked as to how many so-called ‘Americans’ talk about 0bama like he’s trying his best to help America recover or that he loves America. He’s trying his best to eviscerate the private sector so that the government ends up filling the void.. In his view, a 55% death tax is GREAT because it prevents families from keeping their farms.. GREAT! 0bama would love nothing more than for the government to operate 100% of our farms or agricultural business then threaten us with no food unless we do as they say.. Agenda 21 is being implemented as we speak. And people scratch their heads because they don’t understand why kids aren’t allowed to have lemonade stands...


7 posted on 12/28/2012 9:45:39 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

I don’t think Obama is paralyzed by fear at all. Rather he is protected by hubris, and the power we ALLOW him to believe he has.


8 posted on 12/28/2012 9:58:36 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: NKP_Vet
My veteran friends are horrified by the Obama-Panetta doctrine. At least 359 retired flag officers support Mitt Romney – only five that I know of support Obama. Some 150 former prisoners of war also support Romney; I know of none who support Obama.

America needs to listen to these veterans. They understand leadership. They know how to deal with risk in war. They would not want this man with them in combat or crisis. They never left a needy comrade behind. Obama did.

This article was published Nov. 4, 2012; two days before the election. Pat Brady's advice went unheeded by a majority of American voters. Let the blood be on their hands too.

9 posted on 12/28/2012 10:05:48 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: KittenClaws

Obama? Fear?

With the recent betrayal of some operatives, he should fear.

Those people do not threaten.

If the GOP simply exposed what they “Know” about him, this nightmare would end. They won’t.

FUBO!


10 posted on 12/28/2012 10:08:41 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Jonty30

A concussed SOS will not testify, either. :)


11 posted on 12/28/2012 10:12:42 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: KittenClaws

Fear is waaay too generous of a criticism for systematic destruction of a nation, by a prez with a 53% approval rating giving him a green light for more of the same.


12 posted on 12/28/2012 10:12:42 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: NKP_Vet
I document the unparalleled excellence of Dust Off, and the effects of the changes, in my book, “Dead Men Flying.”

Ah, Obama should love this book then. It's all about corpsemen.

13 posted on 12/28/2012 10:17:07 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Bathhouse Barry wants YOU to bend over for another four years)
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To: NKP_Vet

Good article.

BTW - you don’t “win” the Medal of Honor...


14 posted on 12/28/2012 10:19:13 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: The_Media_never_lie

He was probably stoked on stuff with his Chome pals higher than a kite.


15 posted on 12/28/2012 10:24:26 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: Texas Fossil

The GOP can not expose Obama without exposing themselves. The GOP, indeed, the majority of our government are all in on “the fix”. The big time fix.

The window of opportunity is wide open for the usurpers of freedom.

Those of us that see this have no recourse but to bear their impotence to fight it.

Because there is only one way to really fight it.


16 posted on 12/28/2012 10:35:03 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: NKP_Vet

And this is why a decade of intense combat in the middle east has produced so few MOH. They can be pains in the a$$, and tend to get listened to. The political and military leadership realllly dislikes that.


17 posted on 12/28/2012 10:45:48 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: RitaOK
In this case, fear is not a criticism, but a protection.

Kabuki theater. Deflection.

Tell the people what they want to hear, and they will not see (or do) what must be done.

It is all about status quo. Comfort. The easy way.

Meh, I am old, no children. I can live without the fight that should be fought, and I suspect will never be fought.

I can ride through town, yelling that the British are coming, but none will care. I'll yell none the less.

Laws and regulations that this government proposes outside of constitutional bounds, are unconstitutional. Sounds kind of dumb to say such a thing, right?

But, if you are young think about it!!! Unconstitutional.

Is the constitution relevant or not? Will you allow the government to use their interpretation of the constitution against you, or will you use your God Given rights as outline in the Constitution, to......keep your freedom?

18 posted on 12/28/2012 10:50:20 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: RitaOK

One thing we should not consider is the “approval rating” of a president.

Ratings can be manipulated in many ways. Especially when immigration from non-republics are considered. I am speaking of all considerations. We have immigrants with no concept of REAL freedom.

The enemy within sometimes does not know it is the enemy. Sometimes WE do not know it is the enemy.

We best wake up real quick.


19 posted on 12/28/2012 11:01:44 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: NKP_Vet

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, Maj. Brady distinguished himself while serving in the Republic of Vietnam commanding a UH-1H ambulance helicopter, volunteered to rescue wounded men from a site in enemy held territory which was reported to be heavily defended and to be blanketed by fog. To reach the site he descended through heavy fog and smoke and hovered slowly along a valley trail, turning his ship sideward to blow away the fog with the backwash from his rotor blades. Despite the unchallenged, close-range enemy fire, he found the dangerously small site, where he successfully landed and evacuated 2 badly wounded South Vietnamese soldiers. He was then called to another area completely covered by dense fog where American casualties lay only 50 meters from the enemy. Two aircraft had previously been shot down and others had made unsuccessful attempts to reach this site earlier in the day. With unmatched skill and extraordinary courage, Maj. Brady made 4 flights to this embattled landing zone and successfully rescued all the wounded. On his third mission of the day Maj. Brady once again landed at a site surrounded by the enemy. The friendly ground force, pinned down by enemy fire, had been unable to reach and secure the landing zone. Although his aircraft had been badly damaged and his controls partially shot away during his initial entry into this area, he returned minutes later and rescued the remaining injured. Shortly thereafter, obtaining a replacement aircraft, Maj. Brady was requested to land in an enemy minefield where a platoon of American soldiers was trapped. A mine detonated near his helicopter, wounding 2 crewmembers and damaging his ship. In spite of this, he managed to fly 6 severely injured patients to medical aid. Throughout that day Maj. Brady utilized 3 helicopters to evacuate a total of 51 seriously wounded men, many of whom would have perished without prompt medical treatment. Maj. Brady’s bravery was in the highest traditions of the military service and reflects great credit upon himself and the U.S. Army.


20 posted on 12/28/2012 11:04:23 PM PST by oldernittany
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To: RobbyS

Lincoln may not have had a strong military background, but he still ran things. He had a few businesses under his belt before becoming President. Just like Reagan. Reagan spent almost his entire non-political career running things, from his own radio sports show, to producing over 400 movies.


21 posted on 12/28/2012 11:23:23 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: NKP_Vet
Only the POTUS had the authority to act!

0bama was notified immediately and automatically when the Benghazi consulate triggered the "Imminent Danger Notification System" alert. He did nothing.

Judge Jeanine Investigates Benghazi Gate Part 4 - 10/20/2012 video 6:53
Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer (U.S. Army ret.), former CIA Station Chief Gary Berntsen and former CIA operative Mike Baker

They confirm everything Col. Hunt said about automatic notifications to the WH and add more details.

Howie Carr interview with Col. Hunt On The Newest Libyan Revelations audio 28:37

There are three scandals here...

---------------------------------------------------------

Denial of requests for security were a dereliction of duty. The lies and misdirection about the "video" after the attack were fraud and malfeasance under the color of authority. The inaction during the attack was something more than that.

The failure to act during the attack is the direct equivalent of desertion IMO.

ONE man had the authority to act that night.

ONE man deserted his post!

EXCLUSIVE: CIA operators were denied request for help during Benghazi attack, sources say

0bama abandoned his post. 0bama Is A Deserter!

22 posted on 12/28/2012 11:26:42 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: NKP_Vet

“The general makes a good point about the communist and Panetta ,,,”

You should have saved some ink and just left out the and! Panetta has been a Communist for all of his life. HIs daughter too!


23 posted on 12/29/2012 12:00:49 AM PST by vette6387
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To: KittenClaws

Very good comment. I believe it’s the internet keeping us off the streets, out of the way of the Marxists, and generally quiet, diverting us from action of any real consequence. We are monitored, tracked, traced, registered and photographed. Works better than a camp and it keeps us occupied, buried in ink, grumbling to the like minded, but able to do nothing really. Audibly we are silent. The gunners among us are holstered, but impotent against the conceivable, even probable use of drones, should we ever leave the keyboard and get noisy.

That approval rating is a winner for the ONE. He reads it, believes it, likes it, and intends to use it as long as it holds and media are willing to sell it. Astonishing, I agree. That Constitution of ours was written for a Christian nation, and will not stand in a Godless one, including the courts, filled to the brim with more socialists than Christians, with each passing day.


24 posted on 12/29/2012 12:24:15 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: NKP_Vet

Obama paralyzed by fear, LOL! The Obama shitbrd has no fear!


25 posted on 12/29/2012 12:33:48 AM PST by Ajnin (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet!)
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To: KittenClaws
Well put KittenClaws. We realize now that no one will do anything. We have the signature of every US Senator on Senate Res. 511, Apr 2008, wherein they agreed with Judge Chertoff and Pat Leahy that two citizen parents are required to be president, but have learned that the Constitution is whatever those on the take, both parties, tell us it is. They have the full support of the media. We see the few who asked questions, Congressman Nathan Deal, run out of Congress with phony charges, phony charges which can bankrupt any individual as they proved with Scooter Libby. It will probably take the inability to pay union pensions and wages to bring it down. As they destroy the private sector there is less “revenue” (a disgusting term for taxes on what remains of productivity), to pay the government. Finally, as with the USSR, it leads to financial collapse. Now the USSR is Russia and has a flat 13% tax, but it took them seventy years. Our “nominklatura” can only steal, like Islam, which may be why ours supports the Muslim Brotherhood, a band of "brothers" with Obama, Abiden,Holder, Khalidi, and Obama's patron, Alwaleed bin-Talal. At some point they will be useless bureaucrats, and many of our most productive will have moved to some nation with a more immediate future.

Certainly, for those who bothered to read, and knew the lie that “it wasn't defined in the Constitution.” The Constitution explicitly contains no definitions, with one refinement of a common-law term because our nation was not a monarchy. Our framers were brilliant men who wanted the Constitution to have eternal validity, and word definitions change with time. Putting definitions into the document would have rendered it a flawed curiousity in less than a century. It was designed be be, and Chief Justice Waite explained, interpreted in the common-law and language familiar to its framers.

With Obama illegitimate, anything goes. Those who care will have to fight each attack on individual sovereignty again, as Obama packs the court. I'm looking at Canada for my children, but have hopes for Singapore, Israel, and even China, where there is great respect for excellence, and the pay for scientists is now higher than than salaries in the US, where the jobs are disappearing.

Last time I looked Microsoft had four campuses in China, four in Israel, and just one in Canada. They'll keep the Redmond campus for a while, unless Obama tries to shake them down as he just has Toyota, and as Clinton did ten years ago, when Canada offered Microsoft a new home. Obama is a junkie with a silver spoon he probably can't control, or reject at this point. Corrections will come, but too late for me.

There is no reason for my children to struggle to support thuggish government unions and their overpriced drones. As Stalin explained, as long as the SEIU counts our votes we will never prevail in an election. Our pundits, if they had any grasp of quantitative reasoning, or even a little experience with criminal law, would know that our voting system is absolutely without an audit trail. There can be no “chain of evidence” for votes because ballots, if they are used, disappear into the caves of the SEIU where they are “counted”, or not, with no oversight. Is anyone so naive as to assume that an SEIU employee, whose job, future, and probably the health of his/her family depends upon keeping silent, would report that votes aren't counted at all?

Any votes cast via computer leave no trace of the real intent of voters. We do not have a representative republic. Congress is about as much representation as we can hope for. The vote counts all over the country in which Obama received more votes than registered voters will get no attention. The perception that Romney was popular was no illusion. Even the media couldn't cover it up. But Obama used to teach vote fraud when he worked for Project Vote, and Acorn subsidiary. He knew he needn't worry. The busing of illegals was probably unnecessary, since we have no audit-able vote count. IN any case, Republican poll watchers are constrained any place the opposition cares to claim there may be a racist bias, by a law suit decided by a judge, long retired, but who returns yearly to re-assert his order from the bench preventing Republicans from approaching precincts.

It is a little complicated. They count on your ignorance. The only really secure voting mechanism, one which was once the standard in this country, and still is in Israel, is to have volunteers count paper ballots before the ballots leave the precinct, and count them in the presence of observers from all parties. Volunteers have honor. They don't want to be found cheating. They live in the precinct they monitor.

Once the local count is made, it becomes the official count and the ballots are stored securely, never to be accessed without a court order. We don't have that mechanism today so that people, probably both parties at different times, can cheat. No comment about election results could be used as valid statistical data because there is no chain of evidence. It keeps the natives believing we have representative government. We don't, but many of us still believe in individual sovereignty. We will watch it disappear until we organize, or leave. Until more realize that votes are simply a propaganda tool, there can be no changes. They control the count, as Stalin observed, and thus control our future, telling us what they want us to believe are the wishes of the majority.

26 posted on 12/29/2012 1:11:39 AM PST by Spaulding
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To: The_Media_never_lie
Just in case anyone is still unsure about what Benghazi is really about, I made a cruddy graphic.


27 posted on 12/29/2012 1:24:36 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: onedoug
"Obama doesn’t give a damn about anything other than the destruction of The United States."

Not buying the fear thing per say either.  This communist pr*ck is a coniving demon.  Everything is deliberately calculated.  The only thing obama fears is a counter-revolution to the class-warfare induced socialist revolution now under way.  The transformation of America is under way.  They gained a monumental foot hold with the last election/fraud/scam.  Ultimate victory is deffinitely within their grasp now and they know it.  I'm thinking the communist cabal within our government will be dialing it back a bit just now so as not to spark a counter-revolution.  They'll rattle their sabers regarding an assault weapons ban but they won't push it too hard.  Slow and steady wins the race.  There are too many people around who still remember what freedom and liberty were like.  Gradually, or it could spark counter-revolution.  That's their fear.  Counter-revolution.  À la Tea Party.   

 


28 posted on 12/29/2012 1:26:30 AM PST by CaptainKrunch (Just give me freedom. I'll provide my own security.)
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To: CaptainKrunch

The main hop I see is the unlimited supply of coke will take him down, or the slimming disease becomes so advanced he goes into seclusion. Hilly is trapped in the bottle.

The counter putsch will be sudden, swift, extra-legal, and completely effective at eliminating broke government. How can they govern with no money?


29 posted on 12/29/2012 3:12:50 AM PST by FlyingEagle
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To: CaptainKrunch

The main hope I see is the unlimited supply of coke will take him down, or the slimming disease becomes so advanced he goes into seclusion. Hilly is trapped in the bottle.

The counter putsch will be sudden, swift, extra-legal, and completely effective at eliminating broke government. How can they govern with no money?


30 posted on 12/29/2012 3:13:50 AM PST by FlyingEagle
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To: NKP_Vet

!


31 posted on 12/29/2012 3:39:17 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (who'll take tomorrow,spend it all today;who can take your income,tax it all away..0'Bozo man can :-)
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To: FlyingEagle
The main hope I see is the unlimited supply of coke will take him down, or the slimming disease becomes so advanced he goes into seclusion.

According to an article I--and likely a lot of Freepers--have read--there's a group of black intellectuals in Chicago who know a lot about where this clown came from. Based on what they know, it is highly likely that the Little 0 has the "slimming disease" from his past "activities." And we all know what "that" means.

32 posted on 12/29/2012 7:04:29 AM PST by OldPossum
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To: Jonty30
He had a few businesses under his belt before becoming President.

Sorry, not accurate.

Lincoln was an utter failure as a businessman.

Prior to his election as President, he was an attorney and one-term Congressman.

33 posted on 12/29/2012 7:13:55 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Spaulding
We have the signature of every US Senator on Senate Res. 511, Apr 2008, wherein they agreed with Judge Chertoff and Pat Leahy that two citizen parents are required to be president

I just read the Resolution, and it says no such thing. FWIW.

34 posted on 12/29/2012 7:21:06 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: NKP_Vet

I hope that the top military does have the courage to act if we get gun confiscation. This would cause CW2, and the only remedy would be a military coup. Now, that should paralyze him with fear.


35 posted on 12/29/2012 7:35:01 AM PST by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot)
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To: Casie

bttt


36 posted on 12/29/2012 8:47:11 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: NKP_Vet

” the communist and Panetta”? Google “Panetta communist” and see his associations with the communists


37 posted on 12/29/2012 9:25:25 AM PST by capt B
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To: OldPossum

I am too familiar with the disease. It goes hand in hand with addiction. His brother is an addict and alcoholic. His father died drunk in a car wreck.


38 posted on 12/29/2012 9:47:06 AM PST by FlyingEagle
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To: Sherman Logan
"We have the signature of every US Senator on Senate Res. 511, Apr 2008, wherein they agreed with Judge Chertoff and Pat Leahy that two citizen parents are required to be president."

"I just read the Resolution, and it says no such thing. FWIW."

Your motives don't matter Sherman, since others may trust that you know what you are talking about. From the archives of the Senate Judiciary Committee in The Library of Congress, Thomas, April 30, 2008 here is the citation:

“Because he was born to American citizens, there is no doubt in my mind that Senator McCain is a ``natural born Citizen’’. I recently asked Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, a former Federal judge, if he had any doubts in his mind. He did not.”

That statement was by Senator Leahy, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Elsewhere in the minutes of the hearing is another quotation, entered by the committee recorder, saying the same thing. This quotation was once on Leahy’s Senate web site. Needless to say it was scrubbed once questions began to arise. I anticipated that and have a screen capture. It doesn't matter. Whether ignorance or artifice, the Constitution has become a debate topic most haven't read, and most are willing to have explained to them by whomever they have decided to trust. But there are still some who value truth, so we'll correct misinformation until all the records have disappeared, and the new Bill of Rights has fully replaced the dusty old historical documents.

You may of course argue, as some obots have, that the requirements for McCain to be a natural born citizen were different than those applying to Obama. McCain's eligibility was the issue presumably being addressed by Democrats, who were very actively promoting McCain, sponsoring two Senate acts, a law that failed to pass, S.2678 in February 2008, and this resolution, SR. 511. Obama's issue, not having two citizen parents, was never doubted as a requirement, but Chertoff, may have been trying to help his friend McCain, for whom there should have been a Constitutional amendment passed. It may have been assumed that Hillary would be his opponent, since Oboma too signed SR. 511, and never claimed to be a natural born citizen.

McCain was not eligible, and that is why he was so important to Dems. With McCain running no eligibility questions would be raised about Obama, since Dems had thoroughly demonstrated that McCain was ineligible beginning with his candidacy in 2000. McCain's problem was having been born on unincorporated territory, an unfortunate congressional oversight, corrected the year after McCain was born. Yes, the Canal Zone was unincorporated. The authoritative treatment was provided by U of Arizona professor Gabriel Chin in 2008. If McCain had been born, as one published birth certificate for McCain read, in Colon, then he was also born on foreign soil. There were fully seven attempts to amend the definition for natural born citizens between 2002 and 2007, but none left Congress.

39 posted on 12/29/2012 12:28:41 PM PST by Spaulding
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To: Jonty30

Lincoln did not have any significant background, but he was a man of many parts. He was an amateur inventer, had an analytical mind who while riding the circuit, read through Euclid’s geometry. The character in the movie aludes to this. He was a penetrating thinker, and did not pretend to know what he did not. Our dear leader has a mind like William Jennings Bryan—a mind like the River Platte, a mile-wide and an inch deep.” In many ways he is like Jack Kennedy, another celebrity president, except he lacks Kennedy’s libido—apparently—and his irony. Like Kennedy he is no intellectual, but he plays one on TV.


40 posted on 12/29/2012 1:30:59 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Spaulding

McCain’s Father was an American naval officer, as well as being an American citizen and had an American Mother. If you insist that he was therefore, becquse of his birth in Panama where his father was stationed, insist on saying his is not a natural-born American, you offer a reduction ad Absurdum to the other side. For the purpose of using the word was to debar a foreign prince from assuming this novel office. This was to avoid any suggestion of monarchy, and to rule out any non-American alternatives, such as Prince Henry of Prussia.


41 posted on 12/29/2012 1:48:58 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Spaulding

You referenced the Resolution, not testimony in committee.

As has been pointed out many times, there are two and only two ways of acquiring American citizenship: by birth and by naturalization. Those who acquire it by birth are natural born as citizens.

I realize you disagree, but imo you are wrong.


42 posted on 12/29/2012 2:16:58 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
"Those who acquire it by birth are natural born as citizens."

Ahh Sherman, I thought Obots had abandoned ship, but vaguely recall your name from the past. Your assertion, as has been pointed out dozens of times at FR, and twice in the Congressional Record by the principal author of the 14th Amendment, Ohio Congressman John Bingham, in which the Constitutional definition of a “native-born citizen of the US” was defined, is nonsense. Were it true, Wong Kim Ark, born in San Francisco, after the 14th Amendment, would have been a natural born citizen. The Supreme Court, citing Minor v. Happersett, in which “born on the soil to citizen parents” became postitive law, not just common-law, determined that Wong Kim was a citizen. There was no doubt, no weazelling, though the author of the decision probably knew his appointer, Chester Arthur, was ineligible, and spent many paragraphs of the Wong Kim decision writing a treatise on British Common Law, it had no bearing. He decided that Wong Kim was, like Obama, a “native-born citizen of the U.S.”, and not a natural born citizen. He quoted Minor so there could be no doubt.

You, of course, will say that was not true, so here are Bingham’s words from “The World”, the archives of the Congressional Record from 1866:

I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen….

I wonder why you bother? Is the Anita Dunn group still operating? Were you one of those paid to confuse the natives? If we had verifiable elections it still seems unlikely that enough citizens would be well enough informed to know or care about the Constitution. They accept what they are told, and that is probably true for more than just the 47 million on food stamps. Alinsky was certainly a brilliant propogandists. Why do you still worry about confusing people about our former foundation of laws? The courts are obviously so corrupt, and the legislature simply a minor irritant, with any congressperson who steps out of line removed from the more lucrative “pay-to-play” committees where what little power they have is diminished, and their compaign funds curtailed to force them out of office. Obama’s ineligibility is hardly an issue. He is a milquetoast Ortega being driven by banking interests and the Saudi Royal Family, masquerading between golf games as a socialist, but was never a Constitutional president.

43 posted on 12/29/2012 10:04:30 PM PST by Spaulding
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To: DesertRhino
...intense combat in the middle east has produced so few MOH. They can be pains in the a$$, and tend to get listened to. The political and military leadership really dislikes that.

And here I thought it was because the MOH was most often awarded posthumously.

Regards,
GtG

44 posted on 12/30/2012 4:10:11 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: RobbyS
Sorry to take so long RobbyS, but I thought your comment warranted a response.

I believe that McCain's circumstance deserves an amendment. Many, at least twenty five, amendments have been tried and all failed to amend Article II Section 1, Cl 5. In fact in the first Congress there was a bill, signed by George Washington, making the children, born overseas, to US citizens into natural born citizens. But Washington signed the retraction of that law in 1795 and no bill has yet been created to change that. Some argue that the Supreme Court could change it, and wonder why they haven't acted. There is precedent, Minor v. Happersett, but I've been told that there is nothing to prevent a court from rejecting precedent and establishing a new interpretation. But thus far, they have not.

Washington's difficulty was probably one of separation of powers mixed with Article V governing amendments. Only the Supreme Court may interpret provisions of the Constitution, though I know of no case before 1790 in which that provision had been tested. Thus far, the court has used the common-law definition quoted by Chief Justice John Marshall, who cites Vattel’s Law of Nations as the most concise source.

Vattel did proffer his opinion that the foreign born children of military/government officials should be deemed natural born, but many of Vattel’s principles based upon The Enlightenment and natural law were not adopted by our framers, so there is no assumption that everything the Vattel said was assumed to be the intent of our framers.

Thinking about why there might hesitation about foreign born children of military citizens it isn't hard to see why our framers, very concerned with usurpation by someone with hidden allegiance for any other nation might have left out the Vattel extension to military families. Let us assume the military family had relatives in Britain, as almost everyone in the Colonies did. The mother may have died in childbirth and the child left to be raised by the grandparents in England. When the child is 18 he returns to live in the US and attends school. After 17 years in the US he is eligible to become President. Will he have the firmness of allegiance to the US to guide a fragile nation, which may face another war with England at any time? The Constitution was created to protect the sovereignty of individuals. There were many, some say almost half the population of The Colonies before 1776, who firmly believed in the need for a king.

I'm sure you can think of circumstances today where an Army Major, a Muslim and a psychiatrist, takes his Muslim wife on assignment to the Middle East. They have a child there and the child is left to be raised in Saudi Arabia for 15 or so years, returning to the US a “natural born citizen?” Would you trust the intentions of someone exposed to Islamic indoctrination for 15 years?

The law is what it is, even when political parties find it expedient to pretend Article II Section 1 has no relevance today. The current resident of the White House had his college education funded by the Saudi Family, and attended Mosques in Indonesia. We should have honored our Constitution, which, by the way, does not contain definitions by design, depending brilliantly upon the common-law and language familiar to its framers. That common law was repeated in about 40 supreme court cases, right up through 1939. There is no doubt.

That 1939 case made it clear that a young girl, Marie Elg, born in New York to naturalized citizen parents, taken to be raised in Scandinavia by her parents who repudiated their US citizenship, could not lose her natural born citizenship, and did return to live in the US after reaching majority, and could have run for the presidency. Natural born citizenship, the court opined, was granted by nature/God, and could not be denied by a congress of men.

The thought that went into defining citizenship was essential to the foundation of a nation based upon ideas, where leadership was not determined by blood lines. Thomas Paine observed that difference between England and the US, noting that in England the King must have been born to one parent who was an alien, and our President needed both to be citizens. Curiously, only natural born subjects of the British Commonwealth are eligible to be members of Parliament, where naturalized citizens can hold any office in the US Government besides the Presidency, with differing residency and age requirements for different jobs.

45 posted on 01/02/2013 1:41:33 AM PST by Spaulding
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To: Spaulding

I think it boils down to the simply fact that the term is ambiguous. We have the law of the blood and the law of the land, all wrapped up in a Gordian knot.


46 posted on 01/02/2013 7:54:01 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS
"I think it boils down to the simply fact that the term is ambiguous. We have the law of the blood and the law of the land, all wrapped up in a Gordian knot."

RobbyS, how a term recited in over forty Supreme Court Cases, and used as precedent in Minor v. Happersett can be called ambiguous raises the question, “what does ambiguous mean?”

There was never any other definition. Only recently have individuals found the long accepted definition inconvenient. When the author of the naturalization amendment, the 14th, confirmed the Vattel definition, and the most important test case, Wong Kim Ark repeated the Vattel/Minor definition to make Wong Kim, like Obama, a naturalized citizen, naturalized at birth, but naturalized, how can there be ambiguity?

47 posted on 01/03/2013 7:46:48 PM PST by Spaulding
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To: Spaulding

I say it is ambiguous because it was employed at first to fit a particular political situation and, I may add, as part of designing a wholly new office office to fit a particular man, Washington. Like much of the Constitution, it was intended as a negative. The United States would NOT be a monarchy but a republic, Congress would NOT be a Parliament, and the Senate and House would NOT be another House of Lord and Commons. There would be NO national Church. The head of state would NOT be a sacred figure and also head of a royal dynasty. This fit Washington like a glove, and no European prince at all. To fasten on “Natural” is a bit like fastening on 35, which had a basis is numerology AND, actually meant maturity in an age when men were old physically at fifty, even though many of them at age sixty were physically tougher than a man like GEORGE Romney.

Now that said, I take your point about worrying about foreign born Americans in an age when so many millions of Americans are born abroad. But having lived a Little America in germany for many, many years, and having associated with so many American military persons, I must say that there is no group more intensely patriotic, more republican than they. For them it is bone deep. I worry more about someone like our President with his detached, cosmopolitan attitude and his shallow connection. His is the attitude of an immigrant without the gratitude. Furthermore, it is attitude of our supposed “Meritocracy,” with whom he shared his school experience, so often scions of wealthy fathers —like another president I could name—who could NOT have made it on their own except through connections.


48 posted on 01/03/2013 10:08:12 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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