I apologize for the misunderstanding. I largely agreed with what you had written in the previous thread and saw no need to comment further on it. Just as I largely agree with everything in this thread. I have held for a long time that Public schools work well (Not perfect) for the middle 80% the top 10% will do well no matter what, you could drop these kids in the middle of the jungle and they will come out a success. The "bottom" 10 we can do very little with. Whether this is due to lack of motivation, or some hadicapping condition I am not making a distinction.
I do disagree with your above statement for the reasons i outlined in my previous post. I taught at an inner city school. I think your estimation of 50% is very, I would say overly optimistic.
In suburban or rural communities you might be correct. But in the inner cities there are far to many enticements to not get an education already.
Changes MUST be made, but with so many people putting their hands up and saying "not my problem" nothing will get done.
And frankly I bear some of the guilt in this too. I had an opportunity to teach at an inner city school several years back. Instead I chose a rural school district in the middle of Nowhere Va. The money at the inner city was better, a lot better. My wife and I wanted a certain more laid back lifestyle. And I have to admit that I rather enjoy having the students call me Sir, rather than _other_ucker or A--hole. But one thing I know with absolute certainty. When I have to answer to God for my decisions I will be able to say with absolute certainty "I did the most good for the most number of students that I could, not all, but as many as I could."
And that is what it is about for me.
I guess if you want to define a 10% that succeeds in life no matter what, that's one thing, but those aren't always the brightest or the best students. The bright kids sometimes don't get much from schooling and lose interest or focus as those at the bottom do, and those who do best in school aren't always the best prepared for adult life. Public education fails some of students in that smartest 10% or the 80% in the middle -- in fact all across the board.
I suspect public education "succeeds" (in some way and to some degree) for enough young people that abolition is too wild an idea to succeed, though. If so many people are so uneducated and so little interested in learning or even in restraining their children, there may be some sense in requiring that the children get some education or training provided by the government, though this is heresy to anarchists.
“Just as I largely agree with everything in this thread..."
It's difficult to say that public schools “work well” for 80% of kids when 30% of kids don't even graduate from high school. And some number can't read the diploma they receive.
It may be that many of them wouldn't have graduated even if their schools weren't crappy, but even so, that hardly means that the public schools, in not actually harming them, “worked well.”
“I taught at an inner city school. I think your estimation of 50% is very, I would say overly optimistic.”
I'm not speaking only to an inner city population. I'm speaking universally.
That percentage will shrink over time as higher percentages of the population join the underclass as a result of fatherlessness. It's tough (though not impossible) to homeschool when you're a single mom. It's even tougher if you're a [public school] mis-educated never-married single mom raised by a [public school] mid-educated never-married single mom.
As that population grows, candidates for successful homeschooling will decline in numbers.
But 70% of children are still born to a married mom and dad, and moms and dads are BUILT to teach their own children. If only two-thirds of those married moms and dads are truly capable, that's still over 45% of folks.
Folks who could, but don't because they don't wanna, are categorized as “selfish,” not “incapable.”
“Changes MUST be made, but with so many people putting their hands up and saying ‘not my problem’ nothing will get done.”
That's not the problem. The problem is that the folks - including homeschoolers - with creative ideas and potential solutions are locked out of the power process, and those who benefit from the continuing disaster known as the public school system are in charge and have nearly all the power.
You made an evil comment a few threads ago to the effect of how tragic it is that homeschoolers had abandoned public schools, how much better they could be if homeschoolers had just lent a hand. I forgive you your blasphemy, but I doubt you'll do less than one million years in purgatory for it.
Beyond being an informed voter, homeschoolers are actually locked out of any voice in public schools. We sure as hell aren't going to sacrifice our children to better the system. Our first duty to God is to rear and care for our children. We have an obligation first to do our best for our children, not to use our children to service the needs of a bloated and dysfunctional bureaucratic organism.
But once we make the decision to homeschool, we are literally physically exiled from the public school systems. Most public school systems won't even let homeschoolers participate in public school extracurricular activities, no less have a voice in how to run public schools.
What can we do to help change public schools? Join the PTA of the local public school?? I'm not sure we're going to get a warm welcome there. Run for school board? Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. People with their kids stuck in public school are going to vote in droves for people who are perceived (wrongly) as too good to put their own kids in the same public schools.
Even folks with their kids in traditional private schools are called “hypocrites” when they talk about public schools. Certainly, we conservatives accuse liberals of hypocrisy on this charge every day of the week.
It's not that homeschoolers say, “It's not my problem.” The two reasons why homeschoolers are ignored if we try to be involved with public schools is 1) we're considered hypocrites, unworthy of attention and 2) we have a significantly different view of education, a broader, more complete view, and our potential solutions are so radical to those stuck inside the mental prison of their own limited experiences that they more than feel justified, on the few occasions that they listen to us, to going back to ignoring us.
The fact is that many homeschoolers offer plenty of good ideas to improve public schools. I offered a few to you in my last post. Which you roundly ignored.
I readily share my own ideas with anyone who will listen. I'm a Knight of Columbus, Past Grand Knight of my own council. As such, I've often been at events at church, either running them or working them, with lots of other parishioners, who know me, who see me in a position of leadership, and with whom I've spoken. I tell 'em my ideas when the subject comes up. Which is frequently, since they often take the time to compliment my wife and me for our two sons and how they've done academically over the years.
But they act as if I have three eyes and a tail when I tell 'em what I think. There was a buddy of mine in my council - I've known him for about 15 years, we're pretty good friends. He ran for school board in the county. I told him some of my ideas. First of all, he was so uninformed about the county's public school system that it took me nearly and hour just to correct the basic objectives facts he got wrong. In terms of how to reform public education, he didn't think there was much to be done that couldn't be fixed by a small increase in the budget to fund this or that latest educratic fad. And the guy is a REPUBLICAN!
So the best we can do is to serve as examples, to model what real, effective education can look like. And to rear good, decent persons who love God and who learn to use their God-given talents well.
“And frankly I bear some of the guilt...”
Maybe, maybe not.
Teaching is a vocation. That's whether you're teaching your own kids in your own homeschool, or someone else’s kids in a traditional school. God gives ALL parents the vocation to teach their own children. But he only gives a small number of individuals the vocation to teach, on a long-term basis, other parents’ children. And there are vocations even within that vocation. Not everyone is called to enter hell and offer some respite to the damned that lie within. Only you know whether or not that was truly God's call to you. If so, then perhaps you are guilty. If not, then it's a good thing you went elsewhere.
"The money at the inner city was better, a lot better."
The worst of all possible motivations to teach in a difficult environment - the money is better. What an effective way to guarantee a bad faculty.
Few things are worse than a bad teacher. Unfortunately, they abound.
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