Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A red state-blue state divorce plan: Secessionists, here's how some of us want to divide the country
The Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune ^ | November 23, 2012 | Paul Vandevelder

Posted on 11/23/2012 6:42:26 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

We in the blue states hear from the talking heads on Fox News and MSNBC that many of you in the red states are so distressed about the outcome of the elections that you would like to secede from the Union. Now, it seems that at least six of you -- Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina -- have submitted enough signatures (25,000) on petitions to the White House website to merit a formal response, with more petitions on the way.

We wish you the best of luck with this. We feel your pain. If we can speak frankly, it's been coming for a long, long time. The question now is: What's next?

First, we're happy to report that most people here in Oregon, Washington and California think you're really on to something. This marriage has run its course. Too many niggling little things built up over time, driving us all crazy. So let's just stop. It's time to divvy up the china and draft a property settlement. In the spirit of fairness and goodwill, we propose the following as a starting point.

We'll keep the West Coast, Nevada and Hawaii, New York, the rest of the Northeast and all the other states that turned blue on election night. You guys get Texas, Mississippi, the rest of the Confederacy and all the other states that turned red on election night. Alaska can do whatever it wants. It does what it wants anyway.

One caveat here. We've been asked by the citizens of Austin, Texas, to give them sanctuary, so we'll keep Austin as a territorial protectorate, along with Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and Samoa, and you can have Key West...

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; democrats; secede; secession
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-134 last
To: Tau Food
To this day, the Confederados proudly celebrate their heritage.

Kind of. But they speak Portuguese now and are well assimilated into the kind of country their ancestors would have hated.

101 posted on 11/24/2012 8:45:19 AM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: x; madprof98

This is something I hadn’t considered before (national debt).

How would that be distributed in the secessionist plan? It seems to me that would be a huge (probably insurmountable) obstacle to the plan. How would the states decide which amount is “owed” by whom?

Could the seceding states wash themselves completely of the debt? If so, which one wouldn’t secede?

Would each state “owe” 1/50th? That wouldn’t be just to some of the midwestern states that can’t be said to have “created” an equal amount of the debt over the years.

I would think this issue would be the one to truly kill this idea. I don’t see a way around it that would be just.


102 posted on 11/24/2012 8:45:52 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Windflier
Should Texas lead the way to the exits, I predict that at least half a dozen other states will follow in rapid succession, joining Texas in a new American Union.

How long before they get sick of being "under the maw" of Texas?

103 posted on 11/24/2012 8:55:17 AM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: driftless2

Why would they vote Democrat?


104 posted on 11/24/2012 8:56:16 AM PST by Gluteus Maximus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: ctdonath2

Add King County in Washington to the list. We in the Conservative east side have no voice.


105 posted on 11/24/2012 8:56:16 AM PST by gunner03
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: x
But they speak Portuguese now and are well assimilated into the kind of country their ancestors would have hated.

Oh, a lot of the Confederados would disagree with you about that. Check out A Faint Sound of Dixie.

As one Confederado says (in English) in that video, they are the only truly unreconstructed Southerners left in the world. They're the real thing.

106 posted on 11/24/2012 9:10:30 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: madprof98

There will be no secession, there will be partitioning. I think that the best way to partition is to put all the libs on the west coast in California. There is enough room in CA. Particularly if the illegals were sent home. Oregon and Washington can plot their own course.

Reds take the rest of the country. Never let the other have both coasts.


107 posted on 11/24/2012 9:23:40 AM PST by Chickensoup (Leftist Totalitarian Fascism coming to a country like yours.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I love this secession plan. Just think, The RED country would be so fabulous and the BLUE country would suck big time. So there would be all these liberals trying to sneak into the RED country. The BLUE country would implode and we could take it over.


108 posted on 11/24/2012 9:24:40 AM PST by mom.mom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven

Determining the debt share per state would be easy. We would simply use the congressional representation as guide. California would owe 55/435 of the total, Ohio would be responsible for 18/435, Texas’ share would be 32/435, and so on to lowly Wyoming which would owe only 1/435 of the outstanding US debt.


109 posted on 11/24/2012 9:29:04 AM PST by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: Sgt_Schultze

That’s a good idea.

It’s definitely more just. What is one of the reasons for secession though? A growing sentiment that there are simply fundamental differences in terms of how the country is run, financially.

Consider the question: (posed to Texans for example) Who (or what kind of people) are more responsible for the debt, the people in Texas or say Massachusetts?

I’m sure the people in Texas (the ones who want to secede at least) would say “The type (liberal) of people in Mass are more responsible, that’s one of the reasons we are seceding! Why should we pay more of the national debt THEY incurred?”

So while your idea is more just, it still doesn’t effectively divide the debt in a way that makes sense, a way that justifies secession in the first place. At least IMO.

IOW, why secede if one of the reasons to secede is to make a clean and sudden break with not only liberal policies, but the negative effects of such policies? It just doesn’t seem to make sense if the half seceding are simply taking on the same results (the debt for example) if not policies that ostensibly they are leaving behind.


110 posted on 11/24/2012 9:54:28 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Sgt_Schultze
A reunion would necessitate the concept that a vote follows property ownership, not citizenship.

I very much agree with changing our voting laws, so that only those who have an honest stake in the country, and who are contributing members, can vote.

As wonderful of an idea as it is, it's not in the Constitution. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be. I personally believe that it was a terrible oversight by the Framers to not include that provision.

In a newly re-formed union, we should begin the reconciliation process with an improved basic charter. Two and one third centuries of experience have taught us much about the Constitution's strengths, and its weaknesses.

If a constitutional convention is to happen, I would not trust the blue states to be a part of it. I'd rather see it done by a confederation of red states during a period of time in which they're politically dis-unified from the blue states. After the blue states implode, and come begging for readmission to the real union, their first order of business would be to ratify and agree to the improved Constitution.

111 posted on 11/24/2012 10:23:57 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: x
" Should Texas lead the way to the exits, I predict that at least half a dozen other states will follow in rapid succession, joining Texas in a new American Union."

How long before they get sick of being "under the maw" of Texas?

You obviously don't know what Texas is about, if you think it would attempt to lord over the other secessionist states.

112 posted on 11/24/2012 10:27:37 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: Borax Queen
And the donkeys do need to call themselves what they really are, Bolsheviks/Communists.

For example...Harry Reid, C-Nevada. Charles Schumer, C-New York. Works for me. We need to reverse that color scheme, as well.

113 posted on 11/24/2012 10:38:27 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Stonewall Jackson

That’s what I am talking about...RED is the color of Communism, not blue.


114 posted on 11/24/2012 10:42:19 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative
Assuming New Hampshire chooses to side with the Commie States of America (not a sure thing IMO) the only place I could live is North Carolina.

You should consider Tennessee, especially the eastern portion.

As for Red Hampshire? They chose to side with the CPUSA on Election Day...Obama, Kuster, Hassan, Che-Porter...enough said.

115 posted on 11/24/2012 10:46:58 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: Windflier
You folks who've been procrastinating had better get a move on. As in, U-Haul.

L-rd knows we are working on it...

116 posted on 11/24/2012 10:48:43 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Windflier
At least one of our worst presidents was a Texan, which leads me to think that maybe other states wouldn't be very happy in a new country organized around Texas. Maybe Texas wouldn't be altogether happy without some big project that people elsewhere wouldn't be too keen on.

But regardless of what Texas does or doesn't do, other states wouldn't want to be just an appendage of somebody else's new country, so unless Texas itself is split up into smaller states, I can't see Oklahoma or Kansas or Louisiana wanting to be the tail of a very large dog.

117 posted on 11/24/2012 11:10:06 AM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven
Just how to distribute the national debt would have to be settled before any dissolution of the union. Would it be apportioned on the basis of population, or tax income or expenditures? It's hard to say. Other matters like federal property, the military, national parks, social security, would have to be settled before any change was made in the status of a state or states.

Of course there are people who tell you that the states have only to assert their sovereignty and then negotiate as independent nations with the former union with the freedom to accept or reject any or every offer or plan made. Those people have learned nothing from history and perhaps never will. The same with people who tell you that one part of the country is too stupid or lazy or cowardly or weak to mount a resistance to any breakaway secession.

118 posted on 11/24/2012 11:16:23 AM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Some places seriously studying secession are Scotland, Flanders, Catalonia and the Basque (Quebec might be back at it again).

Dividing up the existing debt and obligations is the tough nut to crack. Will all the people in states that leave lose their Social security? They won’t vote for that. Must secessionists make a payment plan for their share of the National Debt?

Communism is all about taking other people’s stuff, so they will want an extortionate settlement.

It is not just a one shot deal. After separation, things will continue to change as different policies take effect.

The productive will try to migrate to where they can keep more of what they earn. The unproductive will want to migrate to where benefits are bigger. As the cash crunch worsens, barriers will go up - both legal and physical, to keep wealth and the productive from leaving. Additional States may want to change sides.


119 posted on 11/24/2012 11:59:02 AM PST by BeauBo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FReepers; Patriots; FRiends

FR really needs your help!

Please Donate Today.

FReepathon Day 55

120 posted on 11/24/2012 12:02:34 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gluteus Maximus

Having Norwegian in-laws, I’ve heard a few of them speak favorably of socialism. I don’t know....maybe it’s just in the Scandinavian nature. At any rate, all my Norske in-laws are diehard Democrats.


121 posted on 11/24/2012 2:54:14 PM PST by driftless2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: iacovatx
I think you are overstating the powers of technology, and underestimating the limitations of geography. I don't think you could live on Manhattan Island and declare that you are under the laws of Texas, for example. Neighbors who obey different sets of laws tend to generate lots of conflicts.

We had a system unmatched in excellence. The left has not just wanted to depart from that, they have in large measure managed to do so.

Secession is how America started. It was well regarded by the Founding Fathers, though only the Founding Fathers of Texas were wise enough to get it in writing. Even Woodrow Wilson paid lip service to it in his discussions of self determination (for everybody but Americans).

The left isn't going to self-segregate from your money and your life. That's like asking a leech to drop off your leg just out of politeness. It's up to those of us who want to be left alone to force the separation, if it is to be done.

122 posted on 11/24/2012 3:39:17 PM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: who knows what evil?
You should consider Tennessee, especially the eastern portion.

Yes,that could be another option but I've always lived near the ocean and it's what I'm accustomed to.

As for Red Hampshire? They chose to side with the CPUSA on Election Day...Obama, Kuster, Hassan, Che-Porter...enough said.

New Hampshire's a funny state.Recently they've voted Rat in Presidential elections but,OTOH,they voted *strongly* Republican in 2010 and they have a tradition of *very* low taxes (*no* sales tax,*no* income tax),which *all* candidates,including Rats,pledge to maintain.If forced to choose I'm not certain how they'd go,whereas I have *no* doubt how Massachusetts,Vermont,New York,California,etc would go.

123 posted on 11/24/2012 4:08:06 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Benghazi: What Did Baraq Know And When Did He Know It?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: x
...maybe other states wouldn't be very happy in a new country organized around Texas.

You appear to have a stuck consideration that Texas will try to become the de facto 'boss' of the secessionist states. I don't know where you're getting that, but nothing could be further from the truth.

If you're so worried about it, stay behind and tough it out in the old union, or become an expat in some other country. You don't have to be our countryman if you don't want to. You've got all kinds of choices.

124 posted on 11/24/2012 4:36:29 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: driftless2

The ‘Ice’ countries are the top four in freedom and liberty list.

Sam Houston went through this... I’ve read a lot of his stuff but not enough.


125 posted on 11/24/2012 5:23:14 PM PST by txhurl (i hate rats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Windflier

I think everybody assumes Texas will be the titular head since we’ve done it before... but not really as we have the most to lose, and the first to be attacked, because we’d be immediately successful.


126 posted on 11/24/2012 5:44:09 PM PST by txhurl (i hate rats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: txhurl
...we have the most to lose, and the first to be attacked, because we’d be immediately successful.

This isn't the nineteenth century. The fedgov isn't going to militarily attack any secessionist state. If we go, it'll be in peace - just as nearly a hundred other new countries have done since the end of WWII.

127 posted on 11/24/2012 6:22:58 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: Windflier

Assuming the successful disentanglement of Federal this, Federal that, Federal the other. The Civil War shooting began over a handful of Federal installations located in the seceding states. I can’t see how to undo that.


128 posted on 11/24/2012 6:26:21 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck
Assuming the successful disentanglement of Federal this, Federal that, Federal the other. The Civil War shooting began over a handful of Federal installations located in the seceding states. I can’t see how to undo that.

Eminent domain by the New United States.

129 posted on 11/24/2012 6:28:43 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: Gluteus Maximus

The counties which voted for ObaMao here in Pennsylvania are Commie Red on this map. We don't care to secede from the Union. We prefer to sign over those counties as special administrative regions to the ChiComs for a set number of years in return for discharging our debt.

Once the agreed period of time is up, we will decide whether or not to accept them back into the United States of America.

130 posted on 11/24/2012 6:28:55 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Alaska Wolf

How about blue and red states for now? Later, blue and red counties could secede from their states and either form new states or be added to existing states.


131 posted on 11/24/2012 7:30:11 PM PST by Tymesup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Left could give us the states with the lowest amounts of resources and if we were able to implement economic freedom w/o the burden of the collectivist social welfare state, we would pull ahead very quickly.


132 posted on 11/24/2012 8:47:13 PM PST by walford (http://natural-law-natural-religion.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

When do we switch back to Red = Communist and Blue = Americans?


133 posted on 11/24/2012 9:00:04 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

I just spent the holidays in a little town about an hour west of San Antonio (as the crow flies). It’s the county seat and the population is only 425. There is never a democrat on the ballot.

Everyone we talked to are serious about secession. They’re also very worried and buying guns and ammo. My wife bought a hurricane lantern from an old lady at a “junk store”. I told her we were buying it for when it hits the fan. She said “I had 10 of them and sold them as fast as I got them. Everybody said that’s why they’re buying them.”

She then told us about a book she is reading called HOME INVASION. It sounds like something that could happen.

When I left I said “I’ll see you at the revolution.”

She shook my hand and said “I’ll be on the front lines with you.”

One other thing I noticed is there are no cattle on the ranches. Many ranchers had to sell their livestock during the drought. So, most of the ranches have been bought buy corporations and turned into deer leases. Beef is definitely about to go through the roof.


134 posted on 11/24/2012 9:38:02 PM PST by Terry Mross (I haven't watched the news since the election. Someone ping me if anything big happens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-134 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson