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The Meaning of Yesterday’s Defeat (US no longer a center-right country)
Power Line ^ | 11/7/2012 | John Hinderaker

Posted on 11/07/2012 10:34:16 AM PST by mojito

Yesterday was a comprehensive disaster. Here in Minnesota, to add a local perspective, not only did the state go for Obama–no surprise there–but the Democrats recaptured both houses of the legislature, and voters defeated two ballot initiatives, one on gay marriage and one on voter ID. Similar losses were sustained across the nation, although there were a few bright spots here and there. So yesterday’s defeat was not about a flawed presidential candidate or presidential campaign.

What lessons can we draw? To begin with, conventional political wisdom was upended in a number of ways. When a president runs for re-election, the campaign is a referendum on his performance; undecided voters break against the incumbent; it’s the economy, stupid. These and other familiar maxims can be consigned to the dustbin.

But there is a much more important proposition that, I think, was proved false last night: that America is a center-right country. This belief is one that we conservatives have cherished for a long time, but as of today, I think we have to admit that it is false. America is a deeply divided country with a center-left plurality. This plurality includes a vast number of citizens who describe themselves as moderates, but whose views on the issues are identical or similar to those that have historically been deemed liberal.

Decades ago my father, the least cynical of men, quoted a political scientist who wrote that democracy will survive until people figure out that they can vote themselves money. That appears to be the point at which we have arrived. Put bluntly, the takers outnumber the makers. The polls in this election cycle diverged in a number of ways, but in one respect they were remarkably consistent: every poll I saw, including those that forecast an Obama victory, found that most people believed Mitt Romney would do a better job than Barack Obama on the economy. So with the economy the dominant issue in the campaign, why did that consensus not assure a Romney victory? Because a great many people live outside the real, competitive economy. Over 100 million receive means tested benefits from the federal government, many more from the states. And, of course, a great many more are public employees. To many millions of Americans, the economy is mostly an abstraction.

Then there is the fact that relatively few Americans actually pay for the government they consume. To a greater extent than any other developed nation, we rely on upper-income people to finance our federal government. When that is combined with the fact that around 40% of our federal spending isn’t paid for at all–it is borrowed–it is small wonder that many self-interested voters are happy to vote themselves more government. Mitt Romney proclaimed that Barack Obama was the candidate of “free stuff,” and voters took him at his word.

The question is, can this vicious cycle ever be broken? Once we are governed by a majority that no longer believes in the America of the Founding, is there any path back to freedom and prosperity? The next four years will bring unprecedented levels of spending, borrowing and taxation. The national debt will rise to $20 trillion or more. When interest rates increase, as they inevitably must, interest costs will squeeze out other government spending. That might not be all bad, except that defense will go first. If Obama’s second term turns into a disaster, fiscal or otherwise, voter revulsion may return the Republicans to power. But that doesn’t mean that America will be saved.

To me, the most telling incident of the campaign season was a poll that found that among young Americans, socialism enjoys a higher favorability rating than free enterprise. How can this possibly be, given the catastrophic failure of socialism, and the corresponding success of free enterprise, throughout history? The answer is that conservatives have entirely lost control over the culture. The educational system, the entertainment industry, the news media and every cultural institution that comes to mind are all dedicated to turning out liberals. To an appalling degree, they have succeeded. Historical illiteracy is just one consequence. Unless conservatives somehow succeed in regaining parity or better in the culture, the drift toward statism will inevitably continue, even if Republicans win the occasional election.

This is not primarily the job of politicians, but politicians cannot escape it, either. I have been grumbling for a long time that Ronald Reagan was the last politician who made a real effort to teach the principles of conservatism to the American public. Since the 1980s, we have largely been coasting on his legacy. The prevailing assumption has been that America is a center-right country, and if Republican politicians run a good tactical campaign and get their voters to the polls, they will generally win. That strategy no longer works, and conservative politicians need to try much harder not just to appeal to conservative voters, but to help create new ones.

The stark question posed by the country’s unmistakable drift to the left is, does America have a future? Can we once again become a beacon of freedom, or will talented young Americans be forced to look elsewhere for opportunity? Barack Obama’s budget–the one that was too extreme to garner a single vote in either the House or the Senate–projects that in four years, we will have a $20 trillion debt. That debt will be paid off by a relatively small minority of our young people, the most productive. If you were in that category, and had to make a choice between staying in the United States and inheriting a debt that could well be $1 million or more, and starting fresh in another country, what would you do? And if you were an investor, where would you put your money? In the United States, where hopelessness reigns and where high unemployment and close to zero growth are now accepted as normal, or in a country with limited government and a dynamic, growing economy?

These are dark days, indeed.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: obamanation
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I'm not sure I could add much to this. Seems pretty accurate in its assessments.
1 posted on 11/07/2012 10:34:22 AM PST by mojito
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To: mojito

It’s going to take the country hitting rock bottom before people start listening to conservatives again...for now, for all intents and purposes, we are a One-Party State.


2 posted on 11/07/2012 10:36:05 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: mojito

We are no longer left of center either.

We took a massive turn left yesterday. And from the looks of it, we are only going to stampede further left in the years to come.

There will be hell to pay. Might as well let it crash now, so we can get started on the reconstruction sooner rather than later.


3 posted on 11/07/2012 10:37:18 AM PST by comebacknewt (Newt (sigh) what could have been . . .)
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To: mojito
The Meaning of Yesterday’s Defeat

The "ME generation hit voting age back around '08. Everyone votes, not with respect of what is best for The Country, but "what's in it for me". What better guy than Barry (it's all about ME) Benghazi.

BTW - "0bama gone put gas in mah cah and make mah house payment. And he gave this free phone."

4 posted on 11/07/2012 10:41:49 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Never Underestimate the Power of Evil)
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To: mojito
America:

Smile

5 posted on 11/07/2012 10:43:58 AM PST by 70times7 (Serving Free Republics' warped and obscure humor needs since 1999!)
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To: mojito
Sadly enough I think Bill O'Reilly was correct last night. He sad that yesterday's election was the most important in a century because it marked a turning point for America. It was the point at which we were given a choice whether we wanted to return to the path that made us great or become just another Western European style welfare state. We chose the later, so from now on 10% unemployment, economic stagnation, and massive deficits are the norm, because that is the price you pay for that type of society. The next thing to go will be the military because it is impossible to pay for a cradle to grave welfare state and a world class military.

The future belongs to countries like India and China, The United States is currently where the British Empire was in 1912....

6 posted on 11/07/2012 10:44:17 AM PST by apillar
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To: mojito
The Takers outnumber the Makers, and the Takers are so brainwashed that they cannot be converted.

The attrition that will occur in their ranks when they are cut off in the inevitable collapse is the only way to lower their numbers. We just have to ride out the storm and rise from the ashes.

7 posted on 11/07/2012 10:46:06 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: mojito

Good article. It immediately occurred to me that America is now a leftist nation. The author brings up some good points. I agree with all of it.

My only question is, is there a conservative nation left on Earth? How could a young person go somewhere and start fresh when the place they go to is just as screwed up.


8 posted on 11/07/2012 10:46:53 AM PST by brownsfan (It's over.)
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To: All

I am fortunate...I grew up in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s...I saw the best of America...Since my late 20;s, I’ve seen a downward spiral in my country...It has reached proportions now that I doubt are recoverable...I weep for my children and my grandchildren. I think I will die before the end of the USA, but it isn’t very far away, I’m afraid....
What a loss for the world, this country....


9 posted on 11/07/2012 10:47:17 AM PST by Boonie
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To: mojito
What lessons can we draw?

That the left got more people to the polls in key states in key areas. Community Organizing 101....

10 posted on 11/07/2012 10:49:23 AM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: apillar

And now with Obamacare firmly in place, all the democrats have to do is scream, “Republican’s want to cut money for Obamacare which means you will have to wait six months in the national cue for a checkup instead of the 3 months you do now!!” Not to mention Michelle Obama’s school lunches will expand to adults, now that the government “owns” your health care they have a stake in making sure you eat right and excercise, after all they don’t want their property “your body” to fall apart before the death panel says it’s time.


11 posted on 11/07/2012 10:50:11 AM PST by apillar
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To: mojito
The stark question posed by the country’s unmistakable drift to the left is, does America have a future?

Short answer: No. All one can say is, "Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they have done."

12 posted on 11/07/2012 10:50:21 AM PST by Schatze (It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.)
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To: DBeers

You simply don’t win elections with a message of “Vote for Me, because I suck less than the other guy.”


13 posted on 11/07/2012 10:50:55 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Boonie

Even greater concern of mine is what about the debt? Will Obama will be willing to start turning around and veto/negotiate to actually lower the debt, like he promised in both 2008 and 2012. I would like to believe so, but it’s all his choice, and not mine.


14 posted on 11/07/2012 10:51:12 AM PST by Morpheus2009
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To: mojito
This plurality includes a vast number of citizens who describe themselves as moderates, but whose views on the issues are identical or similar to those that have historically been deemed liberal.

Not true. Finally saw some of the Obama ads that ran here in Texas the final week or two before the election. And I have to admit, they kinda sounded good to this conservative. He had killed Osama Bin Laden. He saved the Auto companies. He was trying to solve the budget crisis from Bush. Heck, kinda got me excited a little. So basically, Obama lied like the weasel he is. And we now know that if Palin had been the VP, the election might have been a repeat of Gore/Bush. Obama 60.1 million. McCain Palin 59.9 million. Dead heat with electorial college deciding.

15 posted on 11/07/2012 10:52:41 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: mojito

“So with the economy the dominant issue in the campaign, why did that consensus not assure a Romney victory? Because a great many people live outside the real, competitive economy. Over 100 million receive means tested benefits from the federal government, many more from the states. And, of course, a great many more are public employees. To many millions of Americans, the economy is mostly an abstraction.”

It is because 4 generations of Americans have lived in a nation free of a war of immediate threat, crippling economic depression, and cheap plentiful junk at the store and on TV.

In short, we have millions that think that life as it is in America IS THE DEFAULT SETTINGS FOR LIFE ON EARTH.

So for them, they can play with socialism and redistribution. That they can get free goodies from the government. That they can just pay for stuff with a plastic card or paper because those things are “worth” something.

America is a 60-year old dreamworld that puts the Roman Empire to shame and the dream is about up.


16 posted on 11/07/2012 10:52:48 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: 5thGenTexan
We just have to ride out the storm and rise from the ashes.

I think the Out of Ashes series was prophetic, the author was just off by 24 years.

17 posted on 11/07/2012 10:56:51 AM PST by RikaStrom ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire)
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To: Boonie

I consider myself fortunate that I got to live the whole of the 1980s. The last time this nation really shined bright and inspired all the peoples of the world to achieve better things.

Now I feel like I’m imagining a time that must have been made up because it is so far removed. And 1985 wasn’t even 30 years ago!


18 posted on 11/07/2012 10:58:00 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: mojito

We lost because we countered the Obama Phone with Obama Phone w/ fewer minutes.

Looks at the numbers...Obama got about the same number of voters as GW did in 2004...who was also a weak incumbent.

Conservatives are not in a demographic decline, we simply haven’t had a canidate since 1984.

BTW, this election was fraud-a-polousa. We need to clean that up first.


19 posted on 11/07/2012 10:58:11 AM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Boonie

I also grew up in the ‘50s-’60s, in an America that was the envy of the world — and with good reason. Indeed, it’s a loss that will touch every corner of the globe sooner or later. I’m glad I don’t have a lot of years left; I’ve already lived too long.


20 posted on 11/07/2012 10:59:09 AM PST by Schatze (It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.)
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To: Morpheus2009

No, he isn’t going to lower the debt...That’s why I feel for our children...At some point, the debt collector is going to call...and our children and grandchildren and their children are going to be forced to answer...and I can promise you, it will not be pretty when this happens...


21 posted on 11/07/2012 10:59:13 AM PST by Boonie
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To: Morpheus2009
I would like to believe so, but it’s all his choice, and not mine.

As GWB told him when he first won. He will soon learn that somethings are beyond his control. For instance, those things the DINO/RINO Cult has agreed should be done. Syria for example. Which is why Romney and all the RINO's are running cover for the DINO's Obama/Hillary over Benghazi. The Tea Party and True Conservatives need to fight for a serious investigation of Benghazi and Impeachment if warranted.

Full Speed Ahead and Da#n the RINO's !

22 posted on 11/07/2012 11:00:40 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: mojito

Just send me my ObamaChip. I’m assuming im-plantation is covered by obamacare?


23 posted on 11/07/2012 11:01:31 AM PST by gotribe (He's a mack-daddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV415yit7Zg)
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To: apillar
The future belongs to countries like India and China, The United States is currently where the British Empire was in 1912....

Afraid you are right. Don't forget Russia.

24 posted on 11/07/2012 11:03:53 AM PST by Logical me
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To: mojito

The country as a whole is still center-right, but that doesn’t really matter any more. As long as you can get the majority vote in the large population centers that tend to go liberal, you will win the election.


25 posted on 11/07/2012 11:05:01 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: mojito
The question is, can this vicious cycle ever be broken?

The cycle will be broken only after a crisis.

The next four years will bring unprecedented levels of spending, borrowing and taxation.

Yep. And don't forget unprecedented levels of money printing.

To me, the most telling incident of the campaign season was a poll that found that among young Americans, socialism enjoys a higher favorability rating than free enterprise.

Conservatives have lost the culture war in this country, especially among young people. Conservatism won't gain any ground until after catastrophe.

How can this possibly be, given the catastrophic failure of socialism, and the corresponding success of free enterprise, throughout history?

Human nature. People forget. Empires and civilizations rise and fall. Successful societies eventually lack incentives to produce.

Barack Obama’s budget–the one that was too extreme to garner a single vote in either the House or the Senate–projects that in four years, we will have a $20 trillion debt. That debt will be paid off by a relatively small minority of our young people, the most productive.

The debt is never going to be paid off. America is going to default. The debt is currently $16 trillion. The U.S. would have to run a surplus of $500 billion per year for 32 straight years to get back to zero. That. Will. Not. Happen.

If you were in that category, and had to make a choice between staying in the United States and inheriting a debt that could well be $1 million or more, and starting fresh in another country, what would you do?

At this point, it makes more economic sense for the U.S. to default than to pay back $16 trillion.

And if you were an investor, where would you put your money? In the United States, where hopelessness reigns and where high unemployment and close to zero growth are now accepted as normal, or in a country with limited government and a dynamic, growing economy?

The United States isn't the only game in town. There will be plenty of investment opportunities around the world.

The crisis is coming. In March 2009, there were $800 billion U.S. dollars in world circulation. Today that number $2.8 trillion and, thanks to QE3, will be $3.2 trillion by summer 2013. Double digit inflation is inevitable. And with double digit inflation comes double digit interest rates - which will crush bonds, batter stocks, and make U.S. treasury notes worthless - creating a need for more debt and more money printing (Weimar Republic).
26 posted on 11/07/2012 11:10:46 AM PST by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: mojito

“The answer is that conservatives have entirely lost control over the culture.”

They never had control over the culture. What the GOP did to its demise was connect cultural/social issues to fiscal/economic issues. And so down the fiscal cliff we go.


27 posted on 11/07/2012 11:11:56 AM PST by gotribe (He's a mack-daddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV415yit7Zg)
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To: justa-hairyape

“Finally saw some of the Obama ads that ran here in Texas the final week or two before the election. And I have to admit, they kinda sounded good to this conservative. He had killed Osama Bin Laden. He saved the Auto companies. He was trying to solve the budget crisis from Bush.”

Correct.

This was NOT a liberal vs conservative election.
Romney did NOT run conservative, Obama did NOT run liberal.
The foreign policy debate showed not much difference.

Romney thought he could run on Obama’s lousy record and weak economy, but he came up against a dishonest and calculating campaign.

Romney would make a better President, but Obama ran a better campaign.
The social issue was not abortion but ‘birth control’.


28 posted on 11/07/2012 11:16:11 AM PST by WOSG (REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMA. He stole AmericaÂ’s promise!)
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To: brownsfan; All

Is there some conservative who might buy an island somewhere and create a conservative nation for people to emigrate to at some point?

I for one still have hope, but frankly, that may be a good idea.


29 posted on 11/07/2012 11:23:13 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: Morpheus2009

No, he isn’t going to lower the debt...That’s why I feel for our children...At some point, the debt collector is going to call...and our children and grandchildren and their children are going to be forced to answer...and I can promise you, it will not be pretty when this happens...


30 posted on 11/07/2012 11:23:32 AM PST by Boonie
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To: All

Years...centuries from now, some group of people in a country are going to band togather and say they’ve had enough of the way they are being ruled...They have no voice in the governing body and they are going to revolt...They say they will model their new country, if they succeed, on that ancient country, America...

History will repeat itself...........


31 posted on 11/07/2012 11:28:45 AM PST by Boonie
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To: comebacknewt
Might as well let it crash now, so we can get started on the reconstruction sooner rather than later.

Right now the Supreme Court has four justices in their 70s (Scalia and Kennedy are both 76, Ginsburgh is 79, and Breyer is 74). In the next four years there's a good chance that Obama gets to replace as many as hree justices with young hard core lefties. And you know the Harry Reid senate will certainly allow just about anyone through the process. Justice Van Jones or Eric Holder? Could happen. Coupled with Kagan and Sotomayor, they will have a radical leftist SCOTUS majority for the next 25 years.

Some people didn't show up because Mitt wasn't reliable enough on abortion or guns? Hah, let's see how five or even six Obama appointed radicals justices vote over the next few years. And don't tell me about how Chief Justice John Roberts will moderate them, after his Obamacare joke ruling this prospect fails to comfort me; he's more likely to join them a'la Earl Warren. The 9th circuit is going to look solid and reasonable in comparison.

Stick a fork in the America of Reagan, we're in a different beast altogether now.

32 posted on 11/07/2012 11:29:28 AM PST by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: WOSG

Good points. A typical RINO verses DINO election. They only differed on issues that do not really matter to RINO/DINO’s, since they are far above the law anyway. They agree upon the issues that matter to them and they typically have to go way out of their way to appear as if they disagree. For example, McCain attacking Obama on Benghazi, but agreeing with him on Syria. McCain is setting the narrative for the Benghazi situation. That we were attacked by Al Qaeda and not Syria/Iran. Al Qeada is just the miss direction from the truth. We were running weapons to the worlds worst terrorist organizations that were fighting in Syria to topple Assad. And the best way to miss direct that is to blame the attack on Al Qeada, one of the groups that was receiving the weapons.


33 posted on 11/07/2012 11:29:28 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: apillar
It was the point at which we were given a choice

Choice! Choice! What choice? The unwashed masses were given the same choice that we are always given which is whatever choice the two party elites want to give us.

George Bush and John Kerry was no choice, they were both two Ivy League educated snobs who agreed on more than disagreed on, such as No Child Left Behind, Medicare prescription drugs and blanket amnesty.

Bill O' Reilly knows nothing about choice other than whatever choice the elitists offer him because he is a typical MSM Ivy League educated snob who worshiped a piece of elitist political trash like Bobby Kennedy.

Barry Obama and Mittens Romney was NO choice. They were both Ivy League educated snobs and Barry was RIGHT about one thing Romney invented Obamacare before anyone knew who Obama was.

The voters HATED Obamacare so badly that they took historic revenge on the Democrat house members who passed it in the medterm election.

The unwashed masses were given the hope that it would be overturned but unfortunately the elitist snob by the name of Bush nominated one his elitist buddies by the name of John Roberts who screwed that pooch.

Choice! Choice! Don't give me that horse puckey, the last time the unwashed masses had a choice was when some populist by the name of Reagan beat the bejesus out of some effete elitist snob by the name of Mondale.

Since that Knox College grad won, the only two non east coast elite Ivy Leaguers to run for president were Bob Dole and John McCain who came to politics by way of their distinguished military service not by elitist Ivy League indoctrination.

That elitist Barry was taking the country the same direction that elitist Bush was, only difference was he was driving there a lot faster.

Romney would not have changed direction because his elitists masters who financed his campaign would be displeased if he attempted to reform the unfunded entitlemtents of the social welfare state, the subsidies and bailouts of the corporate welfare state, or to put the kabbosh on the globalist military adventures in nation building so much in favor of the military industrial complex. Romney would not have changed direction, he would have simply exited to a rest stop at the side of the road and promise us that we would change directions but wait awhile the time ain't right yet.

34 posted on 11/07/2012 11:42:58 AM PST by Biblebelter
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To: mojito
Pretty much nails it. I've said many times that forty years a candidate like Obama would have been slaughtered at the polls. That candidate was George McGovern who was drubbed near the end of a very unpopular war running as an anti-war candidate. And McGovern himself was a war hero.

Now we have Obama who is a born and bred socialist and a rank disaster as a president. And he gets re-elected handily. The truth is a much higher percentage of Americans are now fond of socialism. They want and expect "free" stuff on the backs of producing Americans. We can run a conservative Pubbie in 2016, and see what happens. If we lose again with a genuine conservative, time for a split.

35 posted on 11/07/2012 11:47:45 AM PST by driftless2
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To: mojito

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

-The American Electorate


36 posted on 11/07/2012 12:25:50 PM PST by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: dfwgator
You simply don’t win elections with a message of “Vote for Me, because I suck less than the other guy.”

Agreed. Romney embodied conservative principles compromised.

37 posted on 11/07/2012 12:33:39 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: mojito
I don't disagree with most of what he says. But I do agree with other Freepers about one point.

So yesterday’s defeat was not about a flawed presidential candidate or presidential campaign.

Nonsense. The numbers tell a different story. It's not that we had MORE idiots going out to vote for Obama. It's that we had far fewer conservatives going out to vote for Romney. Because he was a lousy candidate, almost as bad as Obama.

When you have a lousy candidate at the top of the ticket, everyone else suffers all the way down the line. Quite a few potential senators, governors, state politicians, and congressmen lost because Romney failed to bring out the vote. And he failed really badly.

38 posted on 11/07/2012 12:50:50 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: smokingfrog

Absolutely right. Last night some of the talking heads were talking about battleground states, and I mentioned to my wife that it is now about battleground cities. I figure maybe 12-14 spread out in 6-8 states determine the election. All of these cities have large inner city populations, most have at least one college/university and many are government centers, all of which make them fertile ground for dems. This is why the GOP can still do well in House races, but fares less well in state wide races with national ramifications. When the election maps come out you will see in stark detail what I mean when you compare the extent of blue versus red geographical coverage in the important states we lost last night.


39 posted on 11/07/2012 12:58:19 PM PST by redangus
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To: mojito

We also re-elected a strong GOP majority in the House. That’s certainly center-right. So, something else is at work here.


40 posted on 11/07/2012 1:02:18 PM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: justa-hairyape

The problem with Benghazi, is that this could be just the beginning of worse things to come in the Middle East for America. The problem for the debt is that it will likely grow, currency values will drop, and the reason why Russia, China, and Europe wanted Obama to win will be made quite clear : Spite for our country and prosperity levels. With that in place, it certainly won’t be pretty, but that’s where the religious have an opportunity to shine. Overinflated currency and incompetent politicians will mean something, but a collapsed government leaves the followers of God to be the leaders, morally, to say the least.


41 posted on 11/07/2012 1:02:30 PM PST by Morpheus2009
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To: Boonie
I am fortunate...I grew up in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s...I saw the best of America...Since my late 20;s, I’ve seen a downward spiral in my country...It has reached proportions now that I doubt are recoverable...I weep for my children and my grandchildren. I think I will die before the end of the USA...

I am in your age category and this has been my opinion for a long time. The only difference is that I have no children--and hence, no grandchildren--a life decision that I made at age 18 and for which I am now even more thankful since I don't have them to worry about. But I do feel considerable despair for you and others like you.

42 posted on 11/07/2012 1:52:53 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: mojito

Our flag made it to the moon. It’s still there. It will be the only one there for a little longer maybe. On my death bed I will look out of my window at the moon, over the tin roofs of the squalid remnants of my former country and dare those animals outside to try and pull that flag down. Smiling in the knowledge that they will NEVER achieve it.


43 posted on 11/07/2012 2:12:23 PM PST by The Toll
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To: Boonie
I am fortunate...I grew up in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s...I saw the best of America...Since my late 20;s, I’ve seen a downward spiral in my country...It has reached proportions now that I doubt are recoverable...I weep for my children and my grandchildren. I think I will die before the end of the USA...

I am in your age category and this has been my opinion for a long time. The only difference is that I have no children--and hence, no grandchildren--a life decision that I made at age 18 and for which I am now even more thankful since I don't have them to worry about. But I do feel considerable despair for you and others like you.

44 posted on 11/07/2012 2:15:07 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: mojito

I’ll add my two cents. They looked at Pennsylvania and determined how many votes they needed to make disappear. Then they took them from Casey’s opponent.

In Florida they figured out how many votes they needed to make disappear and they took them from West’s district.

Ditto Bachman.

The race was rigged. There are some powerful people running things. From both parties.


45 posted on 11/07/2012 2:46:32 PM PST by Terry Mross (Once again I wasted my vote. But I have learned my lesson.)
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To: mojito

bump


46 posted on 11/07/2012 2:49:36 PM PST by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: OldPossum
...a life decision that I made at age 18 and for which I am now even more thankful since I don't have them to worry about.

I have wondered what that would be like. I have grandchildren, and have no desire to see them go through this looming train wreck. Having children (and childrens' children) is great, but it is also a graduate course in dealing with worries over which you have zero control.

Either way you go, there's no turning back.

47 posted on 11/07/2012 3:25:45 PM PST by thulldud (Is it "alter or abolish" time yet?)
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To: thulldud

FWIW, I have had no regrets about that decision made as a teenager. I never wavered. It was not easy finding a woman who would go along with my choice but I found her, to my everlasting delight.

I can just imagine the emotional torture that people in your situation must feel. Who could have known that the USA would deteriorate so badly?


48 posted on 11/07/2012 5:35:12 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: mojito

I think there’s one bright spot. Republicans are rejected not on Economics but on moral issues, specifically we are seen as intrusive absolutists, Sister Superior, cluck, clucking our tongues at the social decay. If we embraced freedom in all its permutations (i.e., gay marriage) protect choice (I know, it’s hard to write this too) and liberalize our immigration policy, we could attract more voters. People want prosperity, but not if you are threatening to take away other more basic freedoms (i.e., their freedom to love). It’s a powerful, emotional argument that appeals to the weak-minded, which the left has run with. You only have to think about Todd Akin’s “magic uterus” gaffe to know why we really lost.


49 posted on 11/07/2012 6:14:15 PM PST by FreedomFighter1013 (The Obamas: Grifter-in-chief and Michie the Moocher)
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To: pepsi_junkie

Wow.

I didn’t realize Scalia and Kennedy were both 76.

I can see Scalia staying until he dies just to spite the libs. Kennedy could bail at any moment.


50 posted on 11/07/2012 6:22:12 PM PST by comebacknewt (Newt (sigh) what could have been . . .)
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