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Mark Steyn: A lie makes Obamacare legal
OC Register ^ | 6/29/12 | MARK STEYN

Posted on 06/29/2012 10:19:24 AM PDT by listenhillary

Three months ago, I quoted George Jonas on the 30th anniversary of Canada's ghastly "Charter of Rights and Freedoms": "There seems to be an inverse relationship between written instruments of freedom, such as a Charter, and freedom itself," wrote Jonas. "It's as if freedom were too fragile to be put into words: If you write down your rights and freedoms, you lose them."

For longer than one might have expected, the U.S. Constitution was a happy exception to that general rule – until, that is, the contortions required to reconcile a republic of limited government with the ambitions of statism rendered U.S. constitutionalism increasingly absurd.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: marksteyn; marksteynobamacare; obamacaredecision
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1 posted on 06/29/2012 10:19:29 AM PDT by listenhillary
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To: listenhillary

2 posted on 06/29/2012 10:21:34 AM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: listenhillary; All
Thanks for posting. This business about "writing down" bothered some leaders at the time of the founding also, believing that enemies of liberty would find ways to misinterpret and misuse that method of protecting rights. Even their addition of the Bill of Rights relied on the Constitution's previous Article V involvement of "the People" themselves in any effort to amend or alter the Constitution.

If you have read my post on this subject on another thread today, then just skip the following, but It is relevant to this discussion, inasmuch as yesterday's decision makes knowledge and understanding among "the People" essential to liberty for future generations.

It is up to us, "the People," to determine whether yesterday is the beginning of rediscovery and restoration of the Founders' ideas, or a further decline into tyranny.

"Although all men are born free, slavery has been the general lot of the human race. Ignorant—they have been cheated; asleep—they have been surprised; divided—the yoke has been forced upon them. But what is the lesson? ... the people ought to be enlightened, to be awakened, to be united, that after establishing a government, they should watch over it ... It is universally admitted that a well-instructed people alone can be permanently free." - James Madison

As citizens, we may have trusted the "parchment" document called the Constitution to protect us. We may have trusted the "Court" to protect us. In the end, though, as previous justices have warned us, our Constitution, by its own provisions, is "the People's" document.

Unless its principles live in our hearts, minds, and in our will to keep elected and appointed officials from turning it on its head, it is just that: a "parchment barrier."

"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court even can do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

With that said, let us examine a valuable review of the so-called "living constitution" school of thought which brought us to yesterday. In the Bicentennial Year of the Constitution, 1987, the following Walter Berns' essay was included in a larger volume, "Our Ageless Constitution." Berns reminded citizens that, through the Constitution's own provisions, and the Founders' own words, it is, as Justice Story asserted, "the People" who are "the only KEEPERS" of the Constitution.

If "the People" are, in the words of Madison, "awakened," then perhaps America may today begin a return to the principles of the "parchment" document whose Preamble describes its noble intent.

   







 

 

 

 
 

 

Do We Have
A Living
Constitution?

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption or even knowledge of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives [the executive, judiciary, or legislature]; in a departure from it prior to such an act." - Alexander Hamilton

In the first of the eighty-five "Federalist Papers," Alexander Hamilton emphasized that:

"... it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection or choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force."

The Framers knew that the passage of time would surely disclose imperfections or inadequacies in the Constitution, but these were to be repaired or remedied by formal amendment, not by legislative action or judicial construction (or reconstruction). Hamilton (in The Federalist No. 78) was emphatic about this:

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption, or even knowledge of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives in a departure from it prior to such an act."

The Congress, unlike the British Parliament, was not given final authority over the Constitution, which partly explains why the judicial authority was lodged in a separate and in­dependent branch of government. In Britain the supreme judicial authority is exercised by a committee of the House of Lords, which is appropriate in a system of parliamentary supremacy, but, although it was suggested they do so, the Framers refused to follow the British example.

The American system is one of constitutional supremacy, which means that sovereignty resides in the people, not in the King-in-Parliament; and the idea that the Constitution may be changed by an act of the legislature--even an act subsequently authorized by the judiciary--is simply incompatible with the natural right of the people to determine how (and even whether) they shall be governed.

Unlike in Britain where, formally at least, the queen rules by the grace of God (Dei gratia regina), American government rests on the consent of the people; and, according to natural right, the consent must be given formally. In fact, it must be given in a written compact entered into by the people. Here is Madison on the compacts underlying American government:

  • "Altho' the old idea of a compact between the Govt. & the people be justly exploded, the idea of a compact among those who are parties to a Govt. is a fundamental principle of free Govt.

  • "The original compact is the one implied or presumed, but nowhere reduced to writing, by which a people agree to form one society. The next is a compact, here for the first time reduced to writing, by which the people in their social state agree to a Govt. over them." (In a letter to Nicholas P. Trist, February 15, 1830)

Neither civil society (or as Madison puts it, "the people in their social state') nor government exists by nature. By nature everyone is sovereign with respect to himself, free to do whatever in his judgment is necessary to preserve his own life - or, in the words of the Declaration of Independence, everyone is endowed by nature with the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of a happiness that he defines for himself. Civil society is an artificial person (constituted by the first of the compacts), and it is civil society that institutes and empowers government. So it was that they became "the People of the United States" in 1776 and, in 1787-88, WE, THE PEOPLE ordained and established "this Constitution for the United States of America."

In this formal compact THE PEOPLE specified the terms and conditions under which "ourselves and posterity," would be governed: granting some powers and withholding others, and organizing the powers granted with a view to preventing their misuse by the legislative, the executive, and the judicial branches alike. WE THE PEOPLE were authorized by natural right to do this, and were authorized to act on behalf of posterity only insofar as the rights of posterity to change those terms and conditions were respected. This was accomplished in Article V of the Constitution, the amending article, which prescribed the forms to be followed when exercising that power in the future.

  • What THE PEOPLE were not permitted to do in 1787-88 was to deprive - or pretend to deprive - posterity of their natural right to do in the future what the founding generation had done in 1776. Nor could they, by pretending to delegate it to Congress, the President, or the Supreme Court, deprive them of their sovereign power to change the Constitution. Instead, that power was recognized in the Constitution's provisions in Article V.

The Framers had designed a constitutional structure for a government which would be limited by that structure - by the distribution of power into distinct departments, a system of legislative balances and checks, an independent judiciary, a system of representation, and an enlargement of the orbit "within which such systems are to revolve" And to the judges they assigned the duty, as "faithful guardians of the Constitution," to preserve the integrity of the structure, for it is by the structure (more than by "parchment barriers") that the government is limited. It would he only a slight exaggeration to say that, in the judgment of the Founders, the Constitution would "live" as long as that structure was preserved.

The Enduring American Constitution

Now, almost 200 years later, one can read Hamilton's words in Federalist No. 1 and conclude that, under some conditions, some "societies of men" are capable of "establishing good government," but that most are not. This is not for lack of trying; on the contrary, constitutions are being written all the time - of some 164 countries in the world, all but a small handful (seven by the latest count) have written constitutions - but most of them are not long-lived.

In September 1983, the American Enterprise Institute sponsored an international conference on constitution writing at the Supreme Court of the United States; some twenty-odd countries were represented. With the exception of the Americans, the persons present had themselves played a role - in some cases a major role - in the writing of their countries' constitutions, most of them written since 1970. Only the con­stitution of the French Fifth Republic predated 1970; and the Nigerian, so ably discussed and defended at the 1983 conference by one of its own Framers, had subsequently been subverted, much as the four previous French republican constitutions had been subverted. It would seem that many peoples are experienced in the writing of constitutions, but only a few of them - conspicuous among these the people of America - have an experience of stable constitutional govern­ment. In that sense, we surely have "a living Constitution." That is not, however, the sense in which the term is ordinarily used in the literature of constitutional law as shall be explored herein.

Treating The Constitution As
A Thing Without Form or Substance:
New Definitions Of 'Living'

In the language of many today, a "living Constitution" is not first of all one that is long-lived; rather, its longevity is a secondary or derivative quality which is attributed to its "flexibility" or better, its "adaptability." It is this quality--"adaptability"-- that allows it to be "kept in tune with the times," as the members of this school of thought sometimes say. According to them, a living Constitution is first of all a protean constitution - one whose meaning is not fixed, but variable.

In this respect, it is similar to the Constitution as understood by the "judicial power" school. Some judicial power advocates go so far as to say that, until the judges supply it in the process of adjudication, the Constitution has no meaning whatever. Here are the words of judge Lynn D. Compton of California, writing in 1977 in the pages of the Los Angeles Times:

"Let's be honest with the public. Those courts are policy-making bodies. The policies they set have the effect of law because of the power those courts are given by the Constitution. The so-called "landmark decisions" of both of U.S. Supreme Court and the California Supreme Court were not compelled by legal precedent. Those decisions are the law and are considered "right" simply because the court had the power to decree the result. The result in any of those cases could have been exactly the opposite and by the same criteria been correct and binding precedent.

"In short, these precedent-setting policy decisions were the products of the social, economic and political philosophy of the majority of the justices who made up the court at a given time in history .."

So extreme a view of judicial power is not likely ever to be expressed in the official reports; there (perhaps in order to be dishonest with the public) even the most inventive judge will claim to be expounding the Constitution, if not its ex­plicit provisions then, at least its emanations, penumbras, or lacunae (Griswold v. Connecticut). What is of interest is that a judge should be willing to express it anywhere - for what it means is that a constitutional provision can be interpreted, but not misinterpreted, construed but not misconstrued. More to the point here is that it means that the Constitution is a living charter of government only because it is repeatedly being reinvented by the judiciary.

  • "Creating" Constitutional Rights and Dworkin's Influence

The 'Living Constitution' school and the 'Judicial Power' school may be indistinguishable at the margins, but they derive from unrelated and distinct sources. 'Judicial Power' is a product or an extension of legal realism, the school of thought whose advocates, from the beginning of the twentieth century, have argued that the essence of the judicial process consists not in interpreting law, whether statute or constitutional, but in making it. Its advocates today speak with a certain nonchalance of "creating" constitutional rights (Moore v. City of East Cleveland), and, when pressed to cite their authority for doing so are likely to point to the work of contemporary legal theorists like Ronald Dworkin and his book Taking Rights Seriously . It is Dworkin who has purportedly given this sort of "constitutional lawmaking" what it has always lacked ­ a philosophical underpinning. As he sees it, rights cannot be taken seriously until there has been "a fusion of constitutional law and moral theory," and to make it clear that he is not referring to any particular moral theory that may have informed the Constitution as written, he finishes that sentence by saying that that fusion "has yet to take place."

As it turns out, however, the moral theory he propounds, and which he hopes to "fuse" with constitutional law, proves to be nothing more than a fancy way of justifying what the judge Comptons among us have been doing all along. And what they have been doing is, essentially, treating the Constitution as a thing without form or substance, except insofar as it authorizes the judges to give it substance.

  • The 'Living Constitution' School's Distortion of Marshall

The living Constitution school also claims to have a source more venerable than legal realism or Ronald Dworkin - justice John Marshall. A former president of the American Political Science Association argues that the idea of a " 'living Constitution'...can trace its lineage back to John Marshall's celebrated advice in McCulloch v. Maryland (1819): 'We must never forget that it is a Constitution we are expounding...intended to endure for ages to come, and consequently to be adapted to the various crises of human affairs' " The words quoted are certainly Marshall's but the opinion attributed to him is at odds with his well-known statements that, for example, the "principles" of the Constitution "are deemed fundamental [and] permanent" and, except by means of formal amendment, "unchangeable" (Marbury v. Madison). It is important to note that the discrepancy is not Marshall's; it is largely the consequence of the manner in which he is quoted - ellipses are used to join two statements separated by some eight pages in the original text. Marshall did not say that the Constitution should be adapted to the various crises of human affairs; he said that the powers of Congress are adaptable to meet those crises. The first statement appears in that part of his opinion where he is arguing that the Constitution cannot specify "all the subdivisions of which its great powers will admit;" if it attempted to do so, it would "partake of the prolixity of a legal code" (McCulloch v. Maryland), In the second statement, Marshall's subject is the legislative power, and specifically the power "to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution" the explicitly granted powers.

Neither Marshall nor any other prominent members of the founding generation can be 'appropriated' by the living Constitution school to support their erroneous views. Marshall's and the Founders' concern was not to keep the Constitution in tune with the times but, rather, to keep the times to the extent possible, in tune with the Constitution. And that is why the Framers assigned to the judiciary the task of protecting the Constitution as written.

They were under no illusions that this would prove to be an easy task. Nevertheless, they had reason to believe that they had written a constitution that deserved to endure and, properly guarded, would endure. Hence, Madison spoke out forcefully against frequent appeals to the people for change. Marshall had this Madisonian passage in mind when, in his opinion for the Court in Marbury, he wrote:

  • "That the people have an original right to establish, for their future government, such principles as, in their opinion, shall most conduce to their own happiness, is the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected. The exercise of this original right is a very great exertion; nor can it, nor ought it, to be frequently repeated. The principles, therefore, so established, are deemed fundamental: and as the authority from which they proceed is supreme, and can seldom act, they are designed to be permanent."

At this point, it is well to remember Hamilton's strong warning about unwarranted presumptions by those in government of a power to depart from the people's established form as quoted in the title of this essay.

Marshall referred to the "principles" which he called "permanent," and the "basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected" Yet Marshall also chose to address the much broader issue of the general scope of the national powers. The Constitution must be construed to "...allow to the national legislature that discretion, with respect to the means by which the powers it confers are to be carried into execution, which will enable that body to perform the high duties assigned to it, in the manner most beneficial to the people." It is these powers, not the Constitution, which are flexible and adaptable to meet the crises of "human affairs."

Ironically, the very case cited by the "living Constitution" school, when properly read, demonstrates that John Marshall, at least, saw, no need for flexibility in the Constitution.

Summary: Do We Have A Living Constitution?

What has been undertaken here has been providing (within a very brief compass indeed) an accurate statement of the principles underlying the American Constitution: pointing to (but by no means elaborating) the political theory from which they derive and the constitutional conclusions to which they lead. Among the latter is the untenability of the proposition that constitutional limitations can be jettisoned, constitutional power enhanced, or the constitutional divi­sion of powers altered, by means other than formal constitutional amendment.

It will not be argued that it may sometimes be convenient to allow the Senate to originate a bill "for raising revenue," but convenience is not a measure of constitutionality. There is much to be said in favor of the legislative veto - Who would, in principle, deny the need of checks on administrative agencies? - but, as the Supreme Court correctly said, the Framers anticipated that Congress might find reason to employ such devices and, when designing the so-called "presentment clause" in Article 1, Section 7, forbade them ( Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Chadha). And from a particular par­tisan perspective it is understandably frustrating, simply because the required number of states had not yet ratified the Equal Rights Amendment, to be denied the power to pro­mote the cause of sexual equality; but frustration alone cannot justify a judicial attempt to preclude the necessity of for­mal ratification, as Justice Brennan is said to have wished to do. In Frontiero v. Richardson (411 U.S. 677, 1973) the Supreme Court was divided on the issue of whether sex, like race, should be treated as a suspect classification. We are told that Justice Brennan circulated a draft opinion in which he proposed to declare classification by sex virtually impermissi­ble and that he knew this would have the effect of "enacting" the pending ERA. "But Brennan was accustomed to having the Court out in front, leading any civil rights movement," a major publication stated. Hence, we are further told, he saw "no reason to wait several years for the states to ratify the amendment." No reason, that is, other than the fact, which Brennan implicitly acknowledged, that the Constitu­tion as then written, and which had not yet been rewritten by the only people authorized to rewrite it, did not support the role he would have the Court hand down.

Those who would use "convenience" or "frustration" as reason, or who insist that it lies within the powers of the Court (or the Congress or the Executive) to effect constitutional change, can be charged with a lack of respect for the principles on which, as Marshall wisely observed: "the whole American fabric has been erected."

We are told that it is unreasonable - even foolish - to expect that the Framers could have written a Constitution suitable alike for a society of husbandman and a society of multinational corporations, to say nothing of one as well adapted to the age of the musket and sailing ship as to the age of intercontinental nuclear-tipped missiles. As the problems have changed, the argument goes, so must the manner in which they are confronted and solved, and the Constitution cannot be allowed to stand in the way. Indeed, there is no reason to allow it to stand in the way, we are told, because the Framers intended it to be flexible. And we are told that John Marshall would support this position. But it was Marshall, in McCulloch v. Maryland, who stated: "Throughout this vast republic, from the St. Croix to the Gulf of Mexico, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, revenue is to be collected and expended, armies are to be marched and supported." The United States, in this view was not intended to be a simple society of husbandmen, and Marshall Clearly saw that the Constitution empowered Congress to do what was required to meet the crises of the Republic, and to maintain the Constitutional structure intended by the Framers, changing it only when such change would be in keeping with the structure itself.

That the American Constitution is long-lived, has enduring qualities, and was intended for the ages cannot be doubted. That it was founded on enduring principles, and that it was based on the authority of a people who are sovereign has been attested to by many of its leaders. That it can be changed when, and if, the people ordain such change is a part of its own provisions. For these reasons, it can be said to be a "Living Constitution" - but let that not be claimed by those who would use the language to subvert the structure.

Our Ageless Constitution - Part VII (1987) (Publisher: W. David Stedman Associates; W. D. Stedman & La Vaughn G. Lewis, Eds.) ISBN 0-937047-01-5       (Essay adapted by Editors for publication in this Volume in consultation with Dr. Walter Berns from Berns' article by the same title in National Forum, The Phi Kappa Phi Journal, Fall 1984)


3 posted on 06/29/2012 10:32:28 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: GeorgeWashingtonsGhost

4 posted on 06/29/2012 10:33:50 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: listenhillary
So be it. It's down to the people now – as it should be. But, meanwhile, a little less deference to judges wouldn't go amiss. The U.S. Supreme Court is starting to look like Britain's National Health Service – you wait two years to get in, and then they tell you there's nothing wrong. And you can't get a second opinion.

Thanks for the post.

5 posted on 06/29/2012 10:42:50 AM PDT by quimby
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To: listenhillary
The U.S. Supreme Court is starting to look like Britain's National Health Service – you wait two years to get in, and then they tell you there's nothing wrong. And you can't get a second opinion.

This is the most brilliant and succinct summary I have read regarding this decision.

6 posted on 06/29/2012 10:45:43 AM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: loveliberty2
Do We Have A Living Constitution?

It went on life support on January 20, 2009 when a usurper was sworn in (twice). Yesterday, Roberts pulled the plug.

7 posted on 06/29/2012 10:49:56 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty ("Get that bastard out of MY White House!")
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To: listenhillary
So be it. It's down to the people now – as it should be.

Love Steyn but he must be kidding. It's never been clearer to me that it is not "down to the people", it never has been. We get to choose between the sponsor of Obamacare or the sponsor of the Romneycare. We have no idea who the hell the authors are and we can be assured that though there may be great philosophical distinctions between the justices demigods they nominate, there will be absolutely no difference when it comes down to our liberty!

8 posted on 06/29/2012 11:11:07 AM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: listenhillary
"The U.S. Supreme Court is starting to look like Britain's National Health Service – you wait two years to get in, and then they tell you there's nothing wrong. And you can't get a second opinion."

Heh, heh, heh.......

9 posted on 06/29/2012 11:19:06 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: listenhillary

The Healthcare decision says that states cannot be coerced into providing coverage for their poor uninsured in a punitive way, but INDIVDUALS within that state CAN be coerced into purchasing insurance coverage, in a punitive way.

Isn’t there a dichotomy here, in this reasoning?


10 posted on 06/29/2012 11:29:11 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: wayoverontheright

The feds never would admit that withholding highway funding or FEMA aid could ever be construed as punitive.


11 posted on 06/29/2012 11:44:01 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: wayoverontheright

From what I understand.

The poor (130% of poverty level) are supposed to go on Medicaid and they are not subject to penalties at all. If states do not accept the additional Medicaid funding to allow the poor access to “free Healthcare”, the poor cannot be penalized for not having insurance.

The working poor that do not meet the Medicaid guidelines cannot be penalized if the cheapest policy is greater than 8% of their adjusted gross income. If there is a plan that they can get and it is less than the 8% and they fail to do so, they can be penalized. It would likely just reduce the redistribution “bonus” earned income tax credit and they will get a smaller “refund” check when they file their taxes.


12 posted on 06/29/2012 11:49:01 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: listenhillary
So now the federal legislature can pass any laws they please, so long as they call it a "tax", or Judge Roberts feels it could be a tax even though the lawmakers claim it is not. Incredible! I'm really saddened for us all.

Coming soon: New legislation states all conservatives to be castrated under ObamaCare/RobertsTax. Roberts claims it is not a violation of the legislatures enumerated powers, "it is just a testicle tax".

13 posted on 06/29/2012 11:53:11 AM PDT by ME-262 (We need Term Limits for the federal house and senate. We need new Bums up there.)
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To: ME-262
So now the federal legislature can pass any laws they please, so long as they call it a "tax", or Judge Roberts feels it could be a tax even though the lawmakers claim it is not. Incredible! I'm really saddened for us all.

Coming soon: New legislation states all conservatives to be castrated under ObamaCare/RobertsTax. Roberts claims it is not a violation of the legislatures enumerated powers, "it is just a testicle tax".

And yet I wonder... would even that be enough to get people stirred up and bloodshed mad?

14 posted on 06/29/2012 12:21:46 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: listenhillary
Steyn is such an amazing writer. I love this line:

"I have great respect for George Will, but his assertion that the Supreme Court decision is a "huge victory" that will "help revive a venerable tradition" of "viewing congressional actions with a skeptical constitutional squint" and lead to a "sharpening" of "many Americans' constitutional consciousness" is sufficiently delusional that one trusts mental health is not grounds for priority check-in at the death panel. "

15 posted on 06/29/2012 12:27:10 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: TurboZamboni
The feds never would admit that withholding highway funding or FEMA aid could ever be construed as punitive.

Extortion, you mean. And since it would cross multiple state lines could be considered both federal and criminal. And because there'd be at least 48 instances of it: possibly violative of RICO... but that is assuming, of course, that the federal government is actually capable of doing something illegal; Fast & Furious is proof enough that the mere act of the Federal government doing it makes it legal -- I mean otherwise it would be: 1) the violation of export laws, 2) the violation of treaty w/ Mexico, 3) an unauthorized act of war against Mexico, 4) state sponsored terrorism, and 5) treason.

But, F&F is obviously none of those; why if it were that would prove that the government has huge amounts of corruption. And America is the least corrupt government on Earth, by virtue of being in America!

[/cynic][/sarc]

16 posted on 06/29/2012 12:32:38 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: ME-262
Coming soon: New legislation states all conservatives to be castrated under ObamaCare/RobertsTax.

Roberts claims it is not a violation of the legislatures enumerated powers, "it is just a testicle tax".

Coming soon? It seems the R's have been paying this tax for many years!

17 posted on 06/29/2012 12:33:15 PM PDT by QT3.14 (ZeroTax Death Panels = Shovel-ready projects?)
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To: listenhillary
Only in America does "health" "care" "reform" begin with the hiring of 16,500 new IRS agents tasked with determining whether your insurance policy merits a fine. It is the perverse genius of Obamacare that it will kill off what's left of a truly private health sector without leading to a truly universal system. However, it will be catastrophically unaffordable, hideously bureaucratic, and ever more coercive. So what's not to like?

Brilliant. As always.

18 posted on 06/29/2012 12:46:37 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Theophilus
We get to choose between the sponsor of Obamacare or the sponsor of the Romneycare.

Conservatives had about six opportunities to unite behind a non-Romney over most of a year. We refused to do so. We have nobody to blame for this but ourselves.

19 posted on 06/29/2012 12:58:21 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: loveliberty2

“...I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such... and believe further, that this is likely to be well-administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other...”

Benjamin Franklin, 1787, urging the adoption of the US Constitution.


20 posted on 06/29/2012 1:09:32 PM PDT by Lady Lucky (If you believe what you're saying, quit making taxable income. Starve the beast.)
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To: ME-262
Coming soon: New legislation states all conservatives to be castrated under ObamaCare/RobertsTax. Roberts claims it is not a violation of the legislatures enumerated powers, "it is just a testicle tax".

A lot of people on testosterone commit crimes! The govt could easily make the case against it and declare it a controlled substance.

(Do I need the sarky? /s )

21 posted on 06/29/2012 1:14:27 PM PDT by Lady Lucky (If you believe what you're saying, quit making taxable income. Starve the beast.)
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To: dead
Only in America does "health" "care" "reform" begin with the hiring of 16,500 new IRS agents tasked with determining whether your insurance policy merits a fine. It is the perverse genius of Obamacare that it will kill off what's left of a truly private health sector without leading to a truly universal system. However, it will be catastrophically unaffordable, hideously bureaucratic, and ever more coercive. So what's not to like?

Just wondering at what point citizen anger will flash....

22 posted on 06/29/2012 1:46:43 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Defy by silence)
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To: listenhillary

Brilliant analysis as usual from Mr. Stein.

John Roberts screwed this country over so royally we will likely never recover from his idiocy.


23 posted on 06/29/2012 1:52:48 PM PDT by comebacknewt (Newt (sigh) what could have been . . .)
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To: Lady Lucky

I was in a group once where the speaker asked people to name the person they thought may have been the most intelligent of all recorded in history. At the end he said Da Vinci was generally considered tops but I voted for Ben Franklin and I am still not sure I was wrong. Certainly when it comes to the understanding of human nature he must be very near the top.


24 posted on 06/29/2012 1:55:31 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: Lady Lucky

(Do I need the sarky? /s )
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Not only do you not need it, in the current corrupt condition of our “government” that does not even qualify as sarcasm but rather should be considered a reasonable observation on future possibilities.


25 posted on 06/29/2012 1:59:00 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: Theophilus

Love Steyn but he must be kidding. It’s never been clearer to me that it is not “down to the people”, it never has been.


Other than electing conservatives to the lower offices. All we have is a inkling of hope we can make Romney do the right thing.
Really? Who is gonna do that..Boehner? McCain? Rove?

I’m encouraging everyone to go on Welfare as a stategic move. Overwhelm the system. If they insist on BIG G’mint than lets all get some!


26 posted on 06/29/2012 2:03:54 PM PDT by Leep (Enemy of the StatistI)
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To: RipSawyer

Up is sideways and green is red, the sky is underground and tomorrow is yesterday......That statement should qualify me to be a Supreme


27 posted on 06/29/2012 2:08:24 PM PDT by KTM rider
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To: RipSawyer

Up is sideways and green is red, the sky is underground and tomorrow is yesterday......That statement should qualify me to be a Supreme


28 posted on 06/29/2012 2:09:27 PM PDT by KTM rider
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To: Lady Lucky; All
Love that Franklin statement!

Here is another excerpt from the same volume as the ". . . Living Constitution" essay cited above:

"It was John Adams who said: "The foundation of every government is some principle or passion in the minds of the people." Clearly, the Founders' passion was liberty, and in order to secure that liberty, they sought out and incor­porated into the United States Constitution those ideas and principles embodied in the Declaration of Independence.

"The French historian, Guizot, once asked James Russell Lowell, "How long will the American republic endure?" Lowell replied: "As long as the IDEAS of the men who founded it continue dominant."

"Herein lies the answer to the question, "Will the Experiment Succeed?"

"It can and will succeed IF the motivating "principle or passion in the minds of the people" is LIBERTY, and if that passion causes them to exert the determination and will to complete the needed restoration of the IDEAS upon which the great American experiment was based."

Romney and the Republican had better get on board quickly with providing voters a sharp and distinct set of IDEAS of LIBERTY, and how those ideas contrast with Obama and the Dem's COUNTERFEIT ideas of SLAVERY TO GOVERNMENT AND LOSS OF INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM.

The "jobs" argument is the one the Dems want, because it keeps attention off the underlying cause of job loss, which is loss of individual freedom under a cadre of power-hungry political hacks.

29 posted on 06/29/2012 2:16:54 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Leep

You know there is a big disadvantage we have on our side. We attempt to fight fair and over the board.
We are doing battle against people who lie, cheat, steal, propagandize 80% of the media “news” ..Not to mention encourage dead people and illegals to vote and use our system against us.

Hide your money if you have any and go on the g’mint dole and then give the money away to conservative causes...:)
There is no other way, short of a violent over re-taking of our country. I’m saying if Obama gets re-elected or Romney is a Herbert (Star Trek reference).


30 posted on 06/29/2012 2:19:56 PM PDT by Leep (Enemy of the StatistI)
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To: Sherman Logan
Conservatives had about six opportunities to unite behind a non-Romney over most of a year.

I did not get a chance to vote against Romney until May. How come Kentucky has to vote last while states that go to the Democrats get to vote first? Put the blame on me. It won't make me care any less.

31 posted on 06/29/2012 3:33:03 PM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: Leep

The TEA Party voting for Romney is like the Sons of Liberty voting for Benedict Arnold because they lost the Revolution.


32 posted on 06/29/2012 3:36:45 PM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: Theophilus

Our primary is in May, too. Santorum was still on my ballot, so I voted for him, even though he wasn’t in the race anymore. He got quite a few votes in this area, actually, and so did Gingrich.


33 posted on 06/29/2012 4:47:11 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("The Lord will rescue me from every evil threat and bring me safe to His heavenly kingdom.")
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To: KTM rider

Not just any Supreme, you could be Diana Ross herself, the chief Supreme. She makes more sense than Roberts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GtyMeEcPPE


34 posted on 06/29/2012 4:50:18 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: listenhillary

There is no legal authority for Congress or USG to direct tax on this manner.

“The present Constitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banners, bona fide must we combat our political foes - rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provides for amendments.”
— Alexander Hamilton (letter to James Bayard, April 1802)


35 posted on 06/29/2012 5:00:02 PM PDT by veracious
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To: Leep

“You know there is a big disadvantage we have on our side. We attempt to fight fair and over the board.
We are doing battle against people who lie, cheat, steal, propagandize 80% of the media “news” ..Not to mention encourage dead people and illegals to vote and use our system against us.”

I couldn’t agree more. I heard a pundit on FOX last night saying how Americans hate a divided govt. and will look at Repubs going after Holder as causing the divide, the old can’t everyone get a long mantra. I say fight fire with fire, no more Mr. Nice Guy mambie-pambie crap a la McCain, that worked out ducky didn’t it? GROW A PAIR ALREADY!!!


36 posted on 06/29/2012 7:34:27 PM PDT by tina07 (In loving memory of my father,WWII Vet. CBI 10/16/42-12/17/45, d. 11/1/85)
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To: wayoverontheright
Of course there is. This decision is devoid of logic. And maybe Einstein Roberts will explain some day how a president can "waive" taxes for politically favored groups of individuals purely on his own personal whim.
37 posted on 06/29/2012 8:01:06 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: RipSawyer
Ben Franklin was far better known and more revered in Europe than he was in post-colonial America. He was a real Renaissance man.
38 posted on 06/29/2012 8:05:11 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: JLS

Ping!


39 posted on 06/29/2012 9:40:51 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: TheOldLady; Rummyfan; Howlin; riley1992; Miss Marple; Dane; sinkspur; steve; kattracks; ...

Mark Steyn ping.

Freepmail me, if you want on or off the Mark Steyn ping list.

Thanks for the ping Slings and Arrows.


40 posted on 06/29/2012 10:11:34 PM PDT by JLS (How to turn a recession into a depression: elect a Dem president with a big majorities in Congress))
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To: TheOldLady; Rummyfan; Howlin; riley1992; Miss Marple; Dane; sinkspur; steve; kattracks; ...

Mark Steyn ping.

Freepmail me, if you want on or off the Mark Steyn ping list.

Thanks for the ping Slings and Arrows.


41 posted on 06/29/2012 10:11:39 PM PDT by JLS (How to turn a recession into a depression: elect a Dem president with a big majorities in Congress))
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To: TurboZamboni

Be sure Obama will exact a price. He invigorates himself with retribution. He is a monster.


42 posted on 06/29/2012 10:14:58 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (Ia)
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To: Theophilus
Any Tea Party member not voting for Romney is providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

Time to grow up and realize the most important action is to defeat Obama and bitch about Rhinos after the election.

43 posted on 06/29/2012 10:35:00 PM PDT by Ophiucus
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To: Ophiucus

I agree and fortunately so does EVERY conservative candidate who was in the race...and Sarah Palin.
Romney’s most recent appeal....

“Yesterday, the Supreme Court upheld Obamacare. But regardless of what the Court said about the constitutionality of the law, Obamacare is bad medicine, it is bad policy, and when I’m President, the bad news of Obamacare will be over.

It was always a liberal pipedream that a 2,700 page, multi-trillion-dollar Federal Government takeover of our health care system actually could address the very serious problems we face with health care. With Obamacare fully installed, government will reach fully half of the economy — that is the recipe for a struggling economy and declining prosperity.

On Day One, I will work to repeal Obamacare to stop the government’s takeover of our health care and intrusion in our lives. I will push for real reform to our health care system that focuses on helping patients and protecting taxpayers.

We cannot afford Barack Obama’s on-the-job learning, Big Government proposals, and irresponsible spending. Our basic liberties are at stake — and I will fight to restore our freedoms, renew the respect for our Constitution, and halt the government takeover of health care.

This November it’s all on the line. The stakes couldn’t be higher.”


44 posted on 06/29/2012 11:09:47 PM PDT by ThirstyMan
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To: listenhillary
It is the perverse genius of Obamacare that it will kill off what's left of a truly private health sector without leading to a truly universal system. However, it will be catastrophically unaffordable, hideously bureaucratic, and ever more coercive. So what's not to like?
45 posted on 06/30/2012 5:29:19 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: Sherman Logan
Conservatives had about six opportunities to unite behind a non-Romney over most of a year. We refused to do so. We have nobody to blame for this but ourselves.

Which one should we have united behind, and why?

You have your opinion, and other conservative voters had theirs. Was your opinion right, and theirs wrong? Why should they have given up on their favorite candidate to support yours?

Perhaps the problem was more about having too many conservative candidates that thought they were the Chosen One. The GOP establishment keeps winning because it has the discipline to put forth ONE candidate each time.

Can we really blame the voters for not being able to unite behind one of the multitude of choices?

46 posted on 06/30/2012 6:47:10 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (I'm a constitutionalist, not a libertarian. Huge difference.)
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To: Ophiucus

Bush, Sr., Dole, W.(Roberts), McCain, Romney...

Would you say things are trending upward?


47 posted on 06/30/2012 7:00:48 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative

You may be correct in theory, but I’m right in fact.

If conservatives have someone they don’t want to win, but who has a lock on 30% or more of the vote, the only way to defeat him is to unite behind one of the alternatives.

He didn’t really engineer it, but Romney did a dandy job of divide and conquer.


48 posted on 06/30/2012 8:00:55 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
Only in America does "health" "care" "reform" begin with the hiring of 16,500 new IRS agents tasked with determining whether your insurance policy merits a fine. It is the perverse genius of Obamacare..

I'll get over it - but for now - I feel defeated.

49 posted on 06/30/2012 9:06:34 AM PDT by GOPJ (Way to go Kraft. I now associate your brand with anal sex.(Oreo cookies) Freeper agere_contra)
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To: Theophilus
It's time for the Tea Party to consider becoming a political party. If we're strong enough to ferret out lying dem trolls - those joining only to throw a monkey wrench in the works... we could bring about conservative change.
50 posted on 06/30/2012 10:12:04 AM PDT by GOPJ (Way to go Kraft Foods. I now associate your brand with anal sex.(Oreo cookies) Freeper agere_contra)
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