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Question: How can the "Mandate Tax" be constitutional?

Posted on 06/28/2012 7:42:10 AM PDT by Maceman

Article 1, Sec. 9 of the US Constitution reads: "No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken."

The 16th Amendment reads: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

It thus seems to me that the only direct tax allowable under the US Constitution is the Income Tax. So my question is how is the mandate an income tax?

It seems to me that unless the mandate is tied to income, it is expressly prohibited.

Anyone want to explain this to me, other than saying that the Constitution means whatever the SCOTUS wants it to mean?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
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To: jonno
Roberts understood that this would light a fire - and it will...

Nope. Juan Williams was right (for once). People will talk about this for a few days, then forget about it.

A few patriots will try to have the whole thing overturned, but most of us (Congress included) will simply go back to watching TV.

61 posted on 06/28/2012 8:30:22 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: jonno

That is actually an interesting take. I noticed that even drudge has dug up Obama’s “This is not a tax” speech.


62 posted on 06/28/2012 8:36:54 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: jonno
I think you're giving Roberts too much credit. The problem with this ruling is that although Deathcare is a wildly unpopular piece of legislation with the people and the Republicans are promising to dismantle it, the GOP doesn't historically retain majority. The Dems got the go ahead from SCOTUS and even if it's dismantled, the first opportunity the Dems have to re-grab 1/6th of the economy, they'll take it. Thanks to SCOTUS and its continued perfusion of the CC, this will never end.
63 posted on 06/28/2012 8:43:22 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: Maceman

It’s a disgrace: Congress no longer has to even be tied down by the Commerce Clause to compel the plebeians to do what it wants- it will simply do it under this new backdoor tax approach (...without even having to call it a “tax”). I didn’t think it was humanly possible, but I think this may be an even worse decision that simply saying it was valid under the Commerce Clause.


64 posted on 06/28/2012 8:48:26 AM PDT by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: luvbach1

“I don’t necessarily disagree. But first we need to get the US Military on our side.”


If enough people of character and backbone come together and begin another Declaration of Independence moment I have high confidence the Military knows fully well who will always support them.


65 posted on 06/28/2012 8:49:26 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: liberalh8ter

Perfusion should be perversion. I hate my iPad.


66 posted on 06/28/2012 8:53:09 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: RJS1950

I agree, and when this is pointed out the who thing will implode.

Those rejoycing are going to be very unhappy.


67 posted on 06/28/2012 8:53:30 AM PDT by Rumplemeyer (The GOP should stand its ground - and fix Bayonets)
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To: Maceman
On the radio I'm hearing that the tax is justified as similar to Social Security.

My question: Isn't social security only assessed against workers? If you have a stay-at-home spouse, that person does NOT pay social security, right? But that person will still be mandated to have health care coverage?

If that analogy is correct, then how are they similar? It's more like auto insurance. Only drivers have to pay auto insurance, not everyone. Social security is only paid by workers, not everyone.

But everyone must buy health insurance or the IRS will throw them in prison.

-PJ

68 posted on 06/28/2012 8:55:42 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
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To: Maceman

I agree. I called my Senator’s Office (Marco the Man) and voiced the same sentiment. The bill did not go in as a tax. SCOTUS arbitrarily changed it to a tax. I know of no authority for them to do so. It was unconstitutional as written and is now surely unconstitutional as SCOTUS doe not have the power to tax.


69 posted on 06/28/2012 8:57:00 AM PDT by papageo
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To: Political Junkie Too

The “right people” will get waivers. They’ll still get “health care” but will be exempt from the “tax”.

Maybe stay at home moms will need to join a union to get their waiver.


70 posted on 06/28/2012 9:00:05 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: liberalh8ter
The Dems got the go ahead from SCOTUS and even if it's dismantled, the first opportunity the Dems have to re-grab 1/6th of the economy, they'll take it.

Agreed.

But we should remember that democracy is a messy business (in many ways it would be much "easier" to live under a benevolent monarch [one that come to mind is affectionately named the 'Morning Star'...]). As someone else has pointed out, it wasn't the SC that created this mess - it was congress.

And unfortunately we are getting the govt' - and subsequent laws - that we collectively deserve. And as I mentioned too it is not up to the SC to write our laws.

Yes this is going to haunt us for a long time. The answer is with educating the electorate. Unfortunately too, wisdom oftentimes comes at the END of a painful experience. It may be that our fellow citizens will learn - but only after experiencing the painful end result of 4 more years of BO.

My hope is that before the fall election our electorate gets a civics and economic lesson by watching Europe fall on it's face - having followed the same course on which BO is trying to direct us...

71 posted on 06/28/2012 9:03:06 AM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: mosaicwolf
I'm just a simple retired soldier but it appears to me that the Supreme Court just raised everybody’s taxes. I always thought Congress had to do that.

I wonder if this means it has to go back to congress to st the rates etc etc

If so the ruling gave the house the power to kill it by not passing the taxes
72 posted on 06/28/2012 9:41:18 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: jonno

I was thinking the same thing


73 posted on 06/28/2012 9:43:28 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: uncbob
If so the ruling gave the house the power to kill it by not passing the taxes

The house already passed Obamacare, it's a done deal.

74 posted on 06/28/2012 9:43:42 AM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: kidd

Makes sense what you said

Even more so since it is 2014 the next congress can undo it


75 posted on 06/28/2012 9:49:02 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: uncbob
If so the ruling gave the house the power to kill it by not passing the taxes

I think this was Roberts main intent - "I am gonna throw you a rope - but you're gonna have to pull yourself out..."

76 posted on 06/28/2012 10:14:43 AM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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