Posted on 06/13/2012 3:41:24 PM PDT by kingattax
The United States Army is debating whether to admit women to Ranger School, its elite training program for young combat leaders.
Proponents argue this is to remove a final impediment to the careers of Army women. But the move would erode the unique Ranger ethos and culture—not to mention the program's rigorous physical requirements—harming its core mission of cultivating leaders willing to sacrifice everything for our nation.
The Army's 75th Ranger Regiment traces its roots back to World War II, when it won acclaim for penetrating deep behind Japanese lines. Founded in 1950, Ranger School teaches combat soldiers small-unit tactics and leadership under extreme duress. It pushes men harder than any other program in the Army's curriculum.
Competition to attend the course is fierce, with about 4,000 men eligible to attend each year. Only about half graduate. Of those, only 20% make it through without having to retake various phases.
For decades, completion of Ranger School has been the best indicator for determining which young men can handle the enormous responsibility of combat leadership
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
I’ve passed ten watermelons, but I can say with certainty that I am in no way close to being the physical equal to my husband or my teenaged sons. Maybe if they had the right opening for watermelon passing, they could do that, too. But that would make them women.
I am not saying that there are not women who can best some men. Hubby’s grandmother could outwork a lot of men I know. But she emotionally could not handle combat.
Where I live at home, up a forest service trail. In the morning you can see bear, cougar, bobcat, coyote, whatever, just wandering up the road. I hike that area all the time. I carry a Winchester 30-30 and a .45 slide gun. There are also people who have meth labs up there as well as guys who’ve gone bush. I’ve run into several of them and never had a problem if you know what I mean.
Honey child, I was working big construction jobs as a teenage laborer (lied on the applications), and passed frog school when I was 22. I’m pretty sure I don’t need advice about elite units from a 110# chick. Good for you if you fly and shoot. Congrats! But don’t ever for a minute think that’s the same as ground infantry combat, for prolonged periods of time.
But I forgot. You are the 100# wonder woman who is sure she can kick any Force Recon Marine’s ass.
Like I said before, I sincerely hope you lead a charmed life, and take your silly fantasies with you to the grave, many happy years from now.
I know what you mean. The objection of many such as myself has nothing to do with toughness. I know women who are tough as nails, and as you said, are capable of tasks that would be difficult and unpleasant for anyone, male or female.
PS - I’m basically talking about woodcraft, not combat. Although I’m pretty darn good on sneaking up on things and people. My uncle had me make my own ghillie suit. I know how to stalk, sit for hours and not move. I read about Chuck Mawhinney and also wore out the book “Point of Impact”. There’s more to Marine Recon than just hand to hand.
Well then, I won’t apologize, but will still consider you a credulous fool.
I know what you mean. The objection of many such as myself has nothing to do with toughness. I know women who are tough as nails, and as you said, are capable of tasks that would be difficult and unpleasant for anyone, male or female.
And I suppose you are correct about marathons. Another example of which I have personal experience is hockey. I played for about 15 years, mostly men's league stuff. There was a team that had two women on it, and they could skate. They were fine skaters and likely were stars in the women's leagues (we do have a few) but when they went up against men, they were completely negated by size and strength. They were flashy and skilled looking in warmups, and I remember feeling impressed, but as soon as the game began and they were leaned on, they disappeared completely.
I was a goalie, and I do think a woman could play goalie at a high level. But forward or defense? Not a chance.
Best Regards, Janey
I have been dwelling on this a great deal lately, the concept of our toughness as a people.
I pray to God it doesn’t take a national or global calamity to restore our toughness.
Mrs. BE isn’t home at the moment, but I can say with great assurance that she will emphatically agree with each and every point you made.
God help our military men who have to carry this burden.
Some of those German pilots flew an unbelievable number of missions. I know some of them flew over 1000.
I remember in Erich Hartmann’s book, he often flew 7 missions a day against the Russians. He was the all time ace of aces with 352 confirmed kills and probably a whole lot more than that as the Germans were more conservative in awarding victories than any other air force.
I suspect most men could simply not endure that much combat no matter what kind.
Neither of which is allowed in the Club. Not a comparison to combat and you're talking to combat vets on this thread. I'm not one of them, I'm just one of those scared Marine pilots.
Been to the boat at night? Shitty weather? NVGs? Low-level. Done these things aboard a ship where there is insufficient water to clean your watermelon handler properly for weeks?
The situations you pose are in no way analogous to combat or uncontrolled male revelry (fights). Like I said, you sound like you would be fun but on these claims you are full of crap. Please stop.
Women in the military always get handed the clip board, in fire fighting they become the driver.
In the military they look good for promotion because they look good on paper, no bar fights, or motorcycle wrecks or rough play, also weak NCOs and officers sometimes fall into the trap of preferring women to command because they are less challenging, less violent, less independent, more submissive which again, looks good on paper in peacetime, but isn’t really good in warriors.
There are a LOT of women out there today who could kick my butt, outrun me, out climb me, and so on. But when I was a 19 year old guy, it would have taken an accomplished and strong female athlete to get the better of me. (Note that doesn’t count those with martial arts training, kicking in the gonads and so on...)
But the average 19 year old girl would not have had a prayer against me in a physical struggle. Now, a strong female who could outperform the vast majority of her sex, yeah. She could probably have given me a run.
Problem is, there is always a large group of guys she won’t stand a chance against. In war, it is always about averages. Can your average soldier defeat their average soldier? When a situation is desperate, that is what I fear it comes down to.
Agree completely, which is why the 'anytime, anyplace' boast is silly. Sometimes that 'more' is close combat with and without firearms. Sometimes it is a good old fashioned fight. You aren't credible there.
OK, so you fly and you shoot. That’s not Infantry combat.
I do think some women could potentially make it through Ranger School, but very, very few, and that’s the problem. The standards WILL be relaxed for them in order to increase their pass rate. It will be a dishonorable victory, all so females can wear a tab. Terrific. But at least you can beat your chest and do the “I am woman, hear me roar” thing. For all the good it’ll do you.
Just saying.Okay? There’s lots of things you guys do that there is no way I can.I’m just defending my right to at least try and to let you know what I can or can’t do. Firefights are one thing, would scare the crap out of me, which I’m saying. But there are things that we’re capable of doing that are the same as you guys. Sorry I offended. I’m gone.
Janey
Thanks, OldPossum. I agree. But I fear there are many now who understand advancement is going to be predicated on how well diversity is implemented in your command.
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