Posted on 06/13/2012 2:03:43 PM PDT by MindBender26
There are good aspects of worry that remove it for me from any list of sins. Thank the Lord you would worry if your children were playing near a busy highway. That worry would cause you to take precautions. Unlike adultery, which has no positive moments, worry can be beneficial, so I do not see it related to pride
Certainly it is true that not a sparrow falls without God knowing of it. This observation goes to divine omniscience.
But from there it cannot follow that God is sitting up there in Heaven, with His trusty divine pea-shooter, blowing sparrows out of the sky. This goes to divine omnipotence.
God need not "overdetermine" the universe because His original Creation was faultless — His Word of the Beginning, Logos Alpha to Omega; eventually the Son of God Incarnate, whose inexhaustible suffering and kenosis was performed as a Man on the world stage, out of the perfect Love of the Son for His Father, so that we sinful, "fallen away" humans may be restored — after the sin of Adam — to the good Grace of our divine Father, and achieve our divinely-ordained status as images of Christ, by the Light of Christ, according with His holy Grace, not to mention Love....
Hope you get your computer problem resolved really soon, dear brother in Christ. It can be such a "bummer" when these critturs go down — one can become accustomed to and very dependent on them in so many ways. I speak from experience here!
I well remember the Conservatives who proclaimed McCain “not conservative enough” who asked “Why not just let Obama get elected? After all, how much harm could he do in four years?”
***If you remember it so well, then providing a couple of links to these actual proclamations should be no challenge.
I predict crickets coming from you on this challenge, because I think you just now invented this proclamation.
It is good that you pick Jesus' sparrow passage. The Matthew version follows:
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[b] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Notice that the passage you mention, sparrows, is joined with the other side of the equation "hairs of your head".
It does not in this passage mention the number being known, although that number is known. Notice, instead, that they are NUMBERED, that is, they are limited by the number God has ordained.
This is the case in the Bible in many lives in which are told of God determining the beginning, the middle, and the end of days for any number of people. If God "over-determines" any life, then God can determine all lives.
Computer is up; I hope to address your and Alamo-Girl's thoughts on sin, Romney, Israel, and Obama at some point today.
I'm also hoping to hear that ObamaCare has been struck down by Scotus.
I meant to narrowly define "worry" as a sin when we do it after we have cast our problem before God.
Surely being worried about a charging hungry bear is not a sin but a gift of God.
But if I entrust a specific concern before God, it is sin for me to then pick it up again as if I did not trust Him with it in the first place.
Personally, I see both in Scripture: commandments (free will) and prophecy (predestination).
Being from the Arminian school of Calvinism, I would have to overcome lots of angst to re-open any calvin wars here on FR. Arminius, as many are aware, was a Calvinist with a very high regard for Grace and for God's Justice. Faith was the means by which God, who gives grace to all, avoids accusations of injustice and of evil.
For faith in Christ Jesus itself is a gift from God, the rejection of which leads to eternal separation from God. But, some argue against this graciousness of God because He offers it to humans whose fallen, depraved state can only see it if their spirits become quickened by God. However, Jesus is the light who gives light to every man who enters the world. In too many cases, He came to own, and His own received Him not.
These do not in any way take away from God's omnipotence, omniscience, or omnipresence.
Betty's concerns include:
If we have to consult the written word of the Holy Bible in order to understand how we can vote in this election without offending God
I don't believe she said well in that sentence what she meant. I can see no harm in consulting the Bible in any decision we must make. Nor is there really any harm in consulting Betty Crocker if I'm about to make a batch of pancakes, even though I'm fairly certain I've got the recipe down. Doesn't hurt anything at all. Betty Crocker will not be offended.
Betty's concern might also be that God can be accused of over-determining if He selects leaders of nations. I do not see any basis for such a concern since:
1. The Bible clearly shows God selecting leaders of nations, and
2. The Bible sees no violation of the 3 omni's or of grace or justice in those occasions when God selected leaders of nations.
So, this is somewhat afield of "Should we support Evil People who also Support Israel because God Blesses those who Bless Israel."
There is actually very good reason to consult the bible on that question. It is a difficult question. It is no shame to consult Betty Crocker for a recipe on, say, Classic Greek Moussaka.
Indeed, God establishes leaders - and nations - according to His own will. Daniel 2 is a clear example.
Moreover, I am absolutely certain that nothing can happen in the life of a Christian without either a) God's doing it, or b) God's permitting it.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19
I agree that we have been bought with a price and that we are no longer our own. Christians have what the hymn calls "blessed assurance". His Spirit testifies with our spirits that we are children of God.
As to believing Him about this election, I simply repeat that there are more than 2 choices.
Obama: pro-abortion, pro-gay, anti-Israel.
Romney: pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-Israel.
Goode: pro-life, pro-natural, pro-Israel.
Which of those candidates most meets your beliefs, A-G?
Why not say -- as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say -- "Let us do evil that good may result." Their condemnation is deserved.
The Apostle Paul specifically rejects "doing evil so that good may result".
The entire case about Israel is summarized by Paul in Romans 9-11. This passage in Romans 11 is critical:
Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! 34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" 35 "Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him?" 36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
That's laughable!!
It is clear that you know which most meets your beliefs, and that based on years of experience discussing hundreds of issues with you.
Please consider, though: Since the Apostle Paul is on record saying that we shouldn't do evil so that good will result, then I think it is not at all a given that God wants you to vote for Romney.
After I typed "Rather, which of those candidates does God want me to vote for?" it occurs to me that I am making the same mistake the Apostles did when they cast lots to replace Judas:
They would never have considered Saul (Paul) who was persecuting the Christians. And yet subsequently God chose him, personally, emphatically and in power.
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. – Galatians 1:11-19
A-G, I know you to be a faithful sister in Christ, and I have no doubt that praying about the choice in November is a plan made in heaven. “Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find...”
Jesus himself said, “And WHEN you pray...” He did not say “IF you pray”. IOW, in this and in other locations, Jesus endorsed prayer.
So far as God choosing Paul as an apostle, I have no doubt that He did. God did evidence His choice with power.
However, and this is simply biblical information, there is no place in scripture even a hint that Matthias was a wrong selection or worse, a selection against God’s will. As you report, the apostles prayed about their decision as you have determined to pray about yours.
I have always considered there to be a parallel between 12 tribes and 12 apostles, and that parallel is even maintained in the construction of the heavenly city.
Let me remind you, though, that in counting the tribes, there are 13. By God’s choice, Joseph was blessed as 2 tribes: Manasseh and Ephraim. In the Revelation, Manasseh is counted as a tribe and Joseph is counted as well. Dan is dropped.
With the Apostles, Judas was dropped and replaced with Matthias and Paul.
In sum, this is a decision that is only decipherable in the prerogatives of God Himself. Matthias was never spoken against, not even by Paul, and Paul was affirmed by power.
So, it is not fair to Matthias, apparently a co-witness of the resurrection, to treat him as anything but an Apostle. Church history suggests he was martyred after ministry in Ethiopia and Georgia. In that, we see that he did “go” into all the world. Since apostle means “sent one”, the “going” suggests, at a minimum, a heart inclined toward being “sent”.
Truly, I was being hard on Matthias. But my intent was to be hard on the Apostles for giving God only two choices to replace Judas.
Seems to me they should have given God at least five choices: Barsabas, Matthias, Either, Neither, Both.
LOL! Thanks for a joyful idea, Sister.
Wouldn't it be absolutely great if we had that same choice!
1. Romney
2. Obama
3. Goode
4. Johnson
5. NONE OF THE ABOVE
Now THAT would "Rock the Vote!"
LOLOL! Exactly.
Honestly, Sister, wouldn’t the primary system be vastly improved by that single addition? And it is entirely consistent with the idea of selecting a nominee in a preliminary to a crucial vote to determine the leader of our nation.
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