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Chief Apologizes To Bystanders Detained During Suspect Search
CBS 4 Denver ^ | 6-712 | Staff

Posted on 06/07/2012 6:41:24 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy

AURORA, Colo. (CBS4) – The FBI has confirmed the man arrested in connection to a bank robbery in Aurora is the suspect they were looking for and acted alone.

The suspect has been identified as Christian Paetsch, 45, of Centennial.

The Wells Fargo at Chambers and Hampden was robbed just before closing time on Saturday. Shortly afterwards police shut down the intersection of Buckley and Iliff just southeast of the bank, corralling nearly two dozen cars in search for the suspect.

Police Chief Daniel Oates on Monday apologized to the innocent bystanders that got caught up in the search for the suspect. Oates also said the ends justify the means since the suspect was caught.

About 19 vehicles were stopped Saturday afternoon for about two hours.

Oates would not discuss the tracking technology used, but called it a “virtual certainty” that the suspect was among the 40 people stopped and handcuffed.

The suspect was captured on surveillance cameras wearing a beekeeper mask and gloves. Oates said that the mask, along with two semi-automatic weapons were found in the suspect’s vehicle.

Paetsch had one previous arrest. Oates called him extraordinarily dangerous.

Oates said because of the description of the suspect a lieutenant made the decision to stop everyone in the area. Oates called the stops lawful and necessary.

“The law is clear that investigative detentions are lawful for a reasonable period of time,” Oates said. “Reasonableness is determined by the facts and circumstances at issue, and the facts and circumstances were the suspect was in one of 19 cars.”

Oats said the police department has received about five complaints regarding the methods used, but none of them came from any of the 40 people who were detained.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: constitution; donutwatch; goons; policestate; terrorists
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They didn't find any dogs to shoot? Good thing grandma left Fluffy at home that day.


1 posted on 06/07/2012 6:41:34 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy
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To: atomic conspiracy
"none of them came from any of the 40 people who were detained"

Take their wealth and set them adrift at sea.


2 posted on 06/07/2012 6:48:45 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates also said the ends justify the means since the suspect was caught.

...and if he wasn't caught?

3 posted on 06/07/2012 6:48:49 PM PDT by 11Bush
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates also said the ends justify the means since the suspect was caught.

The wording of that statement tells us volumes about what Oates is capable of doing to innocent people to catch his bad guy. It says he would do a hell of a lot more than "detain" bystanders.

*Anyone* that makes a blanket statement as to the ends justifying the means is morally deficient and should not be in ANY position of power over other people.

4 posted on 06/07/2012 6:50:38 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: Molon Labbie

What the hell is wrong with cops? Destroy the village to save it.


5 posted on 06/07/2012 6:54:21 PM PDT by DariusBane (People are like sheep and have two speeds: grazing and stampede)
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To: atomic conspiracy

What makes those commoners think they need civil rights? Criminals come first.


6 posted on 06/07/2012 6:58:51 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: DariusBane
What the hell is wrong with cops? Destroy the village to save it.

There's only one remedy: sue, sue, sue!

7 posted on 06/07/2012 6:59:10 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates also said the ends justify the means since the suspect was caught.

Then they really should have just shot all 40 suspects in the head, as this would be justified by the savings for the state in trial expenses.

8 posted on 06/07/2012 7:00:36 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: atomic conspiracy

Just all in a day of protecting the US Dollar.. someday soon, they could just follow all them home with mini-drones anyway..


9 posted on 06/07/2012 7:07:46 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: atomic conspiracy

The b@stards. And they may wonder why LEOs are held in such low regard.


10 posted on 06/07/2012 7:11:35 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: atomic conspiracy

40 sheep handcuffed by police,film at 6pm!

IF the 40 had any idea what it means to be a citizen of the United States of America they would be filing 40 lawsuits.

I have to say in light of the police actions and chief that resisting the unwarranted handcuffing would probablty meant being shot for your trouble,and the officers given awards.


11 posted on 06/07/2012 7:15:02 PM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: atomic conspiracy
"better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

12 posted on 06/07/2012 7:25:25 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Police Chief Daniel Oates said the ends justify the means since the suspect was caught.

Yep, that's what this country is founded on - that for the police, the end justifies the means.

Of course, the question of "what end, exactly?" might be too subtle of a consideration for Police Chief Oates and his brethren.

But I guarantee you, it isn't too subtle a question for the other 300 million potentially handcuffed at gunpoint permanent civilian suspects of this country to be contemplating - real hard.

13 posted on 06/07/2012 7:29:49 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

next time they will shoot the vehicle’s occupants. And when they do, all the sheep will say is baaa. Judging from the second photo, it was only by the grace of God, not the “heroic” action of the “Officers” that no one was killed.


14 posted on 06/07/2012 7:33:55 PM PDT by sport
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oats said the police department has received about five complaints regarding the methods used, but none of them came from any of the 40 people who were detained.

Remember the Teflon Don? Nobody ever saw nuttin'.

15 posted on 06/07/2012 7:41:40 PM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates would not discuss the tracking technology used

If they tracked him, how come they didn't know what car he was in?

16 posted on 06/07/2012 7:43:43 PM PDT by razorback-bert (I'm in shape. Round is a shape isn't it?)
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To: atomic conspiracy

None of those people were in any danger from the bank robber until they were stopped. Then they were all bottled up with an “extraordinarily dangerous” man. Thank God he did not decide to go out shooting - that robber deserves some small credit.

And that’s not even considering the danger posed by the police.


17 posted on 06/07/2012 7:44:40 PM PDT by heartwood
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates would not discuss the tracking technology used, but called it a “virtual certainty” that the suspect was among the 40 people stopped and handcuffed.

Are banks now slipping some type of GPS locator chip into the money? Still doesn't allow for the arrest and detention of every one in the vicinity of their "virtual certainty".

Had the bank robber gotten squirrely and started shooting, all those nice people were lined up on the curb like ducks in a shooting gallery. All so the officers could be safe.

Big, damn heroes.

18 posted on 06/07/2012 7:44:43 PM PDT by Valpal1
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To: atomic conspiracy
Bloody hell that's ugly.

I'm starting to get a case of Schadenfreude thinking about the coming pension reform, layoffs in the public sector and the demise of government unions.

19 posted on 06/07/2012 7:45:14 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: Ken H

Where have you been?


20 posted on 06/07/2012 7:56:11 PM PDT by sarasmom ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZsFe6dM3EY)
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To: atomic conspiracy
19 posts excoriating the police without exception for what seems to me to be both a reasonable and restrained police investigation.

Don't bother hollering at me--you've already demonstrated both your viewpoint and your manner. I won't respond.

I just wanted to post a dissenting opinion, a voice crying in the wilderness. Believe it or not, there are others on FR who agree with my viewpoint.

21 posted on 06/07/2012 7:59:31 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates also said the ends justify the means since the suspect was caught.

I heard him interviewed on the radio. He also said, in so many words, that the peasants shouldn't second guess the PD because they know what they are doing and we don't. This New York lawyer seems to believe that your rights may be disregarded if it makes his job easier.

22 posted on 06/07/2012 8:04:54 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

“Believe it or not, there are others on FR who agree with my viewpoint. “

I know. And it both saddens me and angers me at the same time.


23 posted on 06/07/2012 8:14:21 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Yeah, that second picture above sure looks "restrained and reasonable". Sheesh.
24 posted on 06/07/2012 8:16:01 PM PDT by PalmettoMason (South Carolinians need to start choosing a primary challenger to Nikki Haley NOW!!!!!!!)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

Stupid post. Get lost.


25 posted on 06/07/2012 8:17:47 PM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: 11Bush

Oates should be dragged into the street and executed by flamethrower. Then his family should be stripped of all assets and sold into slavery.

Just my opinion of course.


26 posted on 06/07/2012 8:19:11 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: sarasmom

I haven’t been gone... at least physically:)


27 posted on 06/07/2012 8:36:05 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: atomic conspiracy

Tyrants always believe the ends justify the means. Freedom loving people disagree and believe illegal ends just lead to corruption, abuse of power and tyranny.

Nice going Chief. I hope Aurora PD is sued into oblivion and the Chief is required to resign.


28 posted on 06/07/2012 8:38:43 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: atomic conspiracy

Yeah.... An apology covers just about anything .../s

Luckily no one got shot.


29 posted on 06/07/2012 8:50:34 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live athrough it anyway)
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To: atomic conspiracy
“The law is clear that investigative detentions are lawful for a reasonable period of time,” Oates said.

The official epitaph for the Fourth Amendment.

30 posted on 06/07/2012 9:21:18 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: atomic conspiracy
About ten years ago, the Houston PD arrested everyone in a shopping mall parking lot about midnight because drag racing had happened in that neighborhood. There were something like 100-200 claims for false arrest. The idiots arrested everyone parked in line at a White Castle, parents exiting a Wal-Mart with loads of disposable diapers, etc. Some of us estimated Houston's civil liability at something like $25 million.

This one merits civil injunctive relief of the officers having to wear dunce caps in uniform at the library as community service.

31 posted on 06/07/2012 9:44:20 PM PDT by Thud
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To: atomic conspiracy

If this SOB police chief had a video film of the suspect, and it/a description was broadcast to the patrol cars, it is safe to assume that a male suspect is NOT THOSE WOMEN AND CHILDREN arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed.

Colorado: I’m beginning to think they’re as crazy as Californian.

SUE, SUE, SUE!


32 posted on 06/07/2012 9:50:44 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: atomic conspiracy

If this SOB police chief had a video film of the suspect, and it/a description was broadcast to the patrol cars, it is safe to assume that a male suspect is NOT THOSE WOMEN AND CHILDREN arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed.

Colorado: I’m beginning to think they’re as crazy as the Californians.

SUE, SUE, SUE!


33 posted on 06/07/2012 9:51:30 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: atomic conspiracy
Oates would not discuss the tracking technology used, but called it a “virtual certainty” that the suspect was among the 40 people stopped and handcuffed.

He's going to have to cought up the information very soon, what is he waiting for ? Does it need tweaking?

34 posted on 06/07/2012 11:04:45 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Hebrews 11:6

I wonder if you would be so sanctimonious after someone pointed a shotgun at your head


35 posted on 06/07/2012 11:17:04 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: rolling_stone

reliable tip???
http://rt.com/usa/news/suspect-police-cops-reports-197/


36 posted on 06/07/2012 11:23:55 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: rolling_stone

ANALYSIS
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/05/police-searching-for-bank-robber-stop-all-cars-at-intersection-handcuff-drivers-search-cars/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n5_v67/ai_20794167/


37 posted on 06/07/2012 11:38:19 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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just southeast(sic) of the bank

Buckley and Iliff is northeast of Hampden and Chambers.

38 posted on 06/08/2012 1:33:30 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Nik Naym; Hebrews 11:6
This was not a restrained investigation. This was police run amok on a power trip.

The two of you should find a site that applauds police excesses.

39 posted on 06/08/2012 6:00:26 AM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: Nik Naym

I’m with a guy further down. A gun pointed at my head isn’t a small issue. You’ve placed their life in danger, without cause. Accidental discharges happen, and cops aren’t generally held liable for it. cops have become entirely too comfortable with the threat of lethal force.
It’s easy to say an actions is justified when your aren’t the one having a gun aimed at your are being detained against your will. Or being verbally abuse by a jerk who feels he he has to ensure your know he’s got a Big @#%@.
When cops feel they can treat me that way, I’d just as soon let one bleed to death as help him.


40 posted on 06/08/2012 7:12:33 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Hebrews 11:6

You are correct. However, the number of jackboot lickers such as yourself appears to be dimishing on this forum. Wonder why? Perhaps you enjoy having a loaded shotgun pointed at your head and get a sexual thrill from being ordered out of your vehicle at gunpoint and handcuffed, but most people don’t.


41 posted on 06/08/2012 7:27:50 AM PDT by sport
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To: Hebrews 11:6

Since the perp was the last person handcuffed how would you have felt about reasonable if he started shooting at the handcuffed people.


42 posted on 06/08/2012 7:39:16 AM PDT by Starstruck
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To: starlifter

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

I was responding to a post that was entirely in favor of this outrageous behavior on the part of the cops.

How you could interpret my post as in favor of this fiasco is a mystery to me.


43 posted on 06/08/2012 8:24:46 AM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: LevinFan

Um,

Why are you directing this at me?


44 posted on 06/08/2012 8:27:54 AM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Nik Naym

Sorry about that. I’d meant to direct that at hebrew, the favorite target today.


45 posted on 06/08/2012 8:43:16 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Nik Naym
My apologies.
46 posted on 06/08/2012 8:50:17 AM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: Hebrews 11:6
Editor of the local paper weighs in:

We cannot, under any circumstances, allow the police or military to round people up, detain and handcuff them, unless cops have a valid and compelling reason to suspect they’ve committed a crime. This kind of policing is what the Fourth Amendment was created to prevent.

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/opinion/perry-even-in-a-gray-world-aurora-cops-must-abide-by-unreasonable-search-and-seizure-laws/

I think this pretty much says it all.

47 posted on 06/08/2012 12:25:13 PM PDT by Valpal1
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To: atomic conspiracy
This local article quotes the police cheif as saying only the suspects car was searched.

The operation lasted more than two hours and Oates said officers searched just the one car where they found the mask, guns and suspect.

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/news/chief-defends-detaining-40-during-bank-robber-hunt/

So which was it? All the cars or just the one? And if it was just the one, why where they removing and cuffing the occupants of all the cars?

48 posted on 06/08/2012 12:32:00 PM PDT by Valpal1
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To: Valpal1
I agree, but these police didn't "round people up," as though gathering scattered people into a single locale. Instead, they detained people who were already gathered, among whom they had definite reason to believe there was a fugitive. They sorted through this crowd in a reasonable time until they found him.
49 posted on 06/08/2012 12:34:19 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

I don’t agree that 1.5 to 2 hours is a reasonable time to sort through 19 cars.

Also the use of cuffs persons w/o probable cause makes this an inappropriate and abusive use of power. Those citizens were deprived of their basic rights, most especially self-defense.

Just because the situation didn’t go sideways this time, doesn’t mean it won’t the next time.

Oates (the police chief) is quoted in the local paper as that only the suspects car was searched, which means they had some means of actually identifying the car (probably a signal emitter in with the money). If the quote is accurate, then the cuffing and detention of the persons in other vehicles is beyond the pale because not only was there no probable cause, the officers had definite knowledge they were detaining innocent persons.

The problem is cops who think they can do anything in the name of their own safety, including endangering citizens in the vicinity.

The whole point of our constitution is that we Americans prefer preserving our freedoms over netting one more bad guy.


50 posted on 06/08/2012 1:24:34 PM PDT by Valpal1
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