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The Elephant of Jew Hatred
Townhall.com ^ | April 21, 2012 | Caroline Glick

Posted on 04/21/2012 5:34:00 AM PDT by Kaslin

Hatred of Jews is the central animating feature of the political and strategic reality of the Middle East. It is hatred of Jews that dictates the legal regimes, foreign policies, military aspirations, cultural mores, educational themes and even public health policies of our neighbors from Ramallah to Tehran.

Despite the centrality of Jew-hatred in all aspects of public life in the Arab and Muslim world, our neighbors' unrelenting and irrational abhorrence for Israel and the Jewish people remains a dirty secret that you aren't supposed to mention in polite company. From Washington to Brussels, talk of the policy implications of Arab and Muslim Jew-hatred is prohibited.

Omar Abu-Sneina, a convicted terrorist murderer, is one of the thousand Palestinian terrorists that Israel released from prison in order to secure the release of Israeli hostage IDF Sgt.- Maj. Gilad Schalit. Originally from Hebron, Abu-Sneina was released to Hamas-controlled Gaza.

This week the IDF announced that since his release Abu-Sneina has returned to the terror business. The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) intercepted a computer memory card he sent his family in Hebron with instructions for how his fellow terrorists should go about kidnapping and holding IDF soldiers hostage. The instructions demonstrate how for Abu-Sneina, Israelis don't even deserve to be treated like animals.

Among other things, he discussed how to hide a hostage. As he put it, "Avoid hiding [the captive soldier] in desolate places, tunnels or forests, unless the aforementioned [captive] is a corpse or a severed head. If the aforementioned is a live human, that must be visited at least once a week and provided with food and drink, it is best to hide him in a house, an agricultural farm, a workplace, etc."

Abu-Sneina's coldblooded cruelty and rejection of the inherent value of the lives of Israelis is not simply a function of the fact that he is a terrorist. It is a reflection of the values of Palestinian society. Those values are continuously expressed and reinforced by Fatah- and Hamas-controlled media outlets, cultural and educational institutions and religious authorities. The ubiquitousness of Jew-hatred in the daily lives of Palestinians is so overwhelming it is difficult to imagine any facet of Palestinian life that isn't inundated by it.

Take grammar lessons. According to a translation provided by Palestinian Media Watch, the Palestinian Authority's Arabic language matriculation examinations for high school students include questions such as "Punctuate the underlined phrase: Do not view the occupier as human." And "Punctuate the underlined phrase: We shall die in order that our land may live."

THIS WEEK, a Palestinian court sentenced Muhammad Abu Shahala to death for selling a home in Hebron near the Cave of the Patriarchs to Jews. Shahala was arrested shortly after several Jewish families moved into the house last month. He was reportedly tortured and quickly tried and sentenced to die by a PA court.

The PA was established in May 1994. The first law it adopted defined selling land to Jews as a capital offense. Shortly thereafter scores of Arab land sellers began turning up dead in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria in both judicial and extrajudicial killings.

Leaders of the Jewish community of Hebron wrote a letter to international leaders this week asking them to intervene with PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and demand that he cancel Shahala's sentence. They addressed the letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, President of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy, the director-general of the International Red Cross, Yves Daccord, as well as Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and President Shimon Peres. In it they wrote, "It is appalling to think that property sales should be defined as a 'capital crime' punishable by death.

"The very fact that such a 'law' exists within the framework of the PA legal system points to a barbaric and perverse type of justice, reminiscent of practices implemented during the dark ages."

They went on to make the reasonable comparison between the PA's law prohibiting land sales to Jews to Nazi Germany's Nuremburg laws that constrained and finally outlawed trade between Jews and Germans. The letter concluded with the question, "Is the Palestinian Authority a reincarnation of the Third Reich?"

The Palestinians of course are far from unique in their obsession with hating Jews. Their hemorrhage of hatred, their obsessive need to reject any move towards peaceful coexistence with Israel, or what the renowned late Palestinian poet Yousuf Al Khatib referred to picturesquely as "the Jewish filth of Europe," is matched in every Arab land. And of course, it is the primary obsession of the Iranian regime.

The parallels between Nazi laws and the laws of the PA and the Arab states that outlaw all cooperation with Israel and make such cooperation a capital offense are obvious and straightforward. Yet generally speaking, anyone who points out this fact is automatically dismissed as an alarmist or an extremist. Given the PA's relative military weakness when compared with Israel and the Arab world's current lack of interest in waging active war against Israel, noting their inarguable ideological affinity with the Nazis is considered socially and even intellectually unacceptable. The fact that they lack the ability to implement their ideology renders it improper to mention it.

The social prohibition on drawing parallels between the threats facing Israel today and those that faced the Jewish people 70 years ago is not limited to the discourse on the Arab world's conflict with Israel. It also extends to polite society's discourse on Iran's nuclear program, which the Iranian regime has repeatedly made clear is aimed at destroying Israel.

In his address to the nation at the annual Holocaust Remembrance Day ceremony at Yad Vashem on Wednesday evening, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu took aim at that taboo when he attacked those who accuse him of belittling the Holocaust by comparing the annihilation of European Jewry to the threat posed by Iran's nuclear weapons program.

Netanyahu said, "I know there are also those who believe that the unique evil of the Holocaust should never be invoked in discussing other threats facing the Jewish people. To do so, they argue, is to belittle the Holocaust and to offend its victims.

"I totally disagree. On the contrary. To cower from speaking the uncomfortable truth - that today like then, there are those who want to destroy millions of Jewish people - that is to belittle the Holocaust, that is to offend its victims and that is to ignore the lessons.

"Not only does the prime minister of Israel have the right, when speaking of these existential dangers, to invoke the memory of a third of our nation which was annihilated. It is his duty."

NETANYAHU IS right, of course. Unfortunately for Israel, raising the Holocaust in the context of a discussion about contemporary threats to the Jewish people is the rhetorical equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb. Just as no one is allowed to use a nuclear bomb, no one is allowed to mention the Holocaust. And that means that there is ultimately no way to speak about the violent hatred that animates our enemies in every aspect of their policy making. From the seemingly anodyne issue of property sales to the existential issue of nuclear weapons programs, the Jew-hatred that lies at the foundation of their actions is out of bounds for discussion.

Actually, the situation is both better and worse than that. Netanyahu's rhetorical boldness in drawing the parallel between Iran and the Nazis is arguably the only reason that the EU and the Obama administration have taken any actions against Iran. No, as their feckless negotiations with the mullahs, their foot-dragging in implementing economic sanctions, and their outspoken opposition to military action against Iran make clear, they do not really mind the prospect of Iran acquiring the ability to wipe out the Jewish state. The only reason they have adopted sanctions at all is because Netanyahu's Holocaust rhetoric made them fear that Israel would attack Iran's nuclear installations if they didn't.

On the other hand, when it comes to their direct dealings with Jew-haters, Westerners not only fail to confront them about their prejudice. They enable it. For instance, at a townhall meeting during her visit to Tunisia last month, Hillary Clinton was asked how US leaders can be trusted when during elections, "most of the candidates from both sides run towards the Zionist lobbies to get their support."

Rather than reject the anti-Jewish premise of the question - that Jews exert inordinate control over US politics or that there is something wrong with candidates expressing support for Israel - Clinton treated the question as legitimate.

She said, "A lot of things are said in political campaigns that should not bear a lot of attention."

Clinton even congratulated her anti-Jewish questioner, saying, "I think it's a fair question because I... sometimes am a little surprised that people around the world pay more attention to what is said in our political campaigns than most Americans."

Similarly, a report on the behind the scenes goings on at last weekend's nuclear negotiations with Iran published by Al-Monitor described the friendly discussion that took place at a dinner Friday night between EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and Iranian chief negotiator Saeed Jalili. According to a European diplomat, the conversation was aimed at breaking the ice. And it included a discussion of "political party funding in the US."

It is hard to imagine that such a discussion involved anything other than a group tongue-clucking session directed against the inordinate impact of "Jewish money" on US electoral politics. That is, it is all but impossible to imagine that the discussion involved anything other than Ashton attempting to build a rapport with her Iranian counterpart based on shared hatred or contempt for Jews.

The fact that the West refuses to consider the policy implications of the most powerful force in Arab and Iranian policy-making and political life does not mean that Israeli policy-makers should necessarily expand their discussion of the topic - although it would probably not hurt for them to do so. What it means is that the general policy debate in the West about the nature of Middle Eastern politics is completely divorced from reality.

Because the Americans and the Europeans refuse to acknowledge the elephant of Jew-hatred in the middle of the room, they cannot be trusted to make reasoned or rational policy decisions. And since they cannot be trusted to act rationally, Israel cannot rely on the Americans or the Europeans as allies or partners when it confronts threats from its Jew-obsessed neighbors.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/21/2012 5:34:01 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Hatred of Jews is not a secret, pretty much been going on since Hagar and Ishmael.


2 posted on 04/21/2012 6:14:03 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Kaslin

It’s really ENVY of Jews. ENVY to the point of hatred. These Jew-haters are exposing their own retarded, immature ENVY. Jew-haters need to grow up and take care of their own households. Jew-haters need to grow a pair and mind their own business. ENVIOUS Jew-haters keep the whole world in turmoil.


3 posted on 04/21/2012 6:35:35 AM PDT by abclily
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To: Kaslin

Obama received 77% of the Jewish vote. No just how dumb are the Jews to vote for someone that hates their guts and would do what Hitler and the Nazi did if they had the chance? Dumb. Just plain dumb.


4 posted on 04/21/2012 6:38:38 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it ain't Newt, we're screwt !)
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To: abclily

Let the Jews have their nation in the middle east, independent of muslims and arabs. That is a much needed precedent. But Euro trash are too cowardly and want to impugn their genocides in African colonies on Jews, and that always was Hitler’s plan with arabs, to blame the Brits and the Jewish “colonies” (and not refugees, as is used in favored of Palestinians for flesh language).

So, in one stroke, Europe is still doing Hitler’s and arabs’ bidding, and that is why these sniveling Germans were against us invading the Nazi like Baath party in Iraq. These people, I tell you, on the surface they are pacific, but dig a bit deeper and give them a few weapons of politics or material warfare, and they play... oh... they play.


5 posted on 04/21/2012 6:43:09 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: CodeToad

Jews voting for Obama think he will be nice to them in return. Just like Obama bowing to Arabs and expecting them to be nice to him in return. EVIL is never nice in return.


6 posted on 04/21/2012 6:43:56 AM PDT by abclily
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To: abclily

I hate to say it, but as much as Jews love to succeed they are also terrible liberals. For some reason they identify with liberalism and vote for it.


7 posted on 04/21/2012 6:46:42 AM PDT by CodeToad (If it ain't Newt, we're screwt !)
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To: abclily

I will also say this, Eurabia, is a direct result of Hitler’s pact with muslims (his favorite religion if he had to follow one tradition), and they are going to be overrun. He needed them to invade Russia from the Caucasus and keep the Brits in check in Africa. So, now the self hatred of so called sophisticate cheating european is showing, as they are losing ground to arabs colonizing their space, as they PC surrender to them. Israel stands there as a stick in their eye and in the Nazi eye inclination of antisemitic euros who play the left card. But we know better.


8 posted on 04/21/2012 6:46:47 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: CodeToad

It’s a centralist kibutz mentality that liberal jews will always err with some kind of fascist, a sort of love for organization and missing the zionist point that was founded in the persecution of jews from being allowed to be organized into gentile society. Conservative Jews did not want to be organized within it, but to organize themselves. Hellenist jews wanted access but were denied integration. Israel was born as a result of that common need. Now the same hellenist in Israel hope to integrate with the UN and are foolishly pushing with it, the same mistake they did in Germany which prevented them from criticizing their German boss’ uneasiness.


9 posted on 04/21/2012 6:51:40 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: CodeToad

Obama is the type of guy who hides his incompetence, stupidity and crude ignorance behind hate. The only thing that makes him “cool” is this cutsy poisoned snake “poor little kid” meme that is subconsciously treating self hate.

What he does, he catches liberal jews in an act of self hate, ambushing them, and then makes them fearful of being caught by their conservative brethens, and they vote for him.

ANd it would make him look so cool, he hopes, especialy to the muslim world he wants to prove as he kow tow to it, to do something devasting to the jews and be applauded for it. Then man is crazy.


10 posted on 04/21/2012 6:57:57 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: abclily

I think liberal American Jews vote for radicals because they follow leaders who hate Christians (Christ) more than they love their own freedom and lives. In a recent survey published on Beck’s web site last week, 90 percent of Jews said they perfer Muslims over Christians.

See Jon Stewart’s recent anti Christ stunt and Larry David peeing on the cross for jewish “entertainment” examples. There are examples in every aspect of American life - business, legal, political and social.

Christians are like the nerd the Jewish American elite love to shame, ridicule and beat up at every opportunity. White Christians are the only group it is safe to hate and advocate “affirmative action” (reverse discrimination) against.

White American Christians are like the abused wife, too shocked and intimidated by the brutality in our relationship with American Jews to call them on it in a direct way. We are fearful of churning up or joining with the powerful anti-Jew forces against Jews. So we shut up about it and act like Jews are our best friends who no one had better mess with as a “Christian” duty.

It is rather dysfunctional. But I think it is necessary; especially with the rise of Muslims, the racist diversity tribes (who come together on the hatred of Jews) and the White radical left. The Jewish liberals are so blinded by the cleverness and power of hating Christians, they don’t see what is coming. Their Muslim loving, Christan American hating Obama has already harmed Israel in a major way with his ‘Arab Spring” coups. Jews in Europe are being harmed on the streets and Jews on our campuses are being harmed by lefty haters, too. Soros has built a political empire on hating Jews/Israel.


11 posted on 04/21/2012 7:41:09 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Kaslin

If any of you missed it, enjoy MUSLIMS IN LONDON =

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoGtHAG8IQ


12 posted on 04/21/2012 8:25:04 AM PDT by doug from upland (Just in case, it has been reserved: www.TheBitchIsBack2012.com)
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To: Kaslin

For Saturday morning entertainment - MUSLIMS IN LONDON =

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoGtHAG8IQ


13 posted on 04/21/2012 8:26:15 AM PDT by doug from upland (Just in case, it has been reserved: www.TheBitchIsBack2012.com)
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To: Kaslin

There is another element, seldom recognized, that is both important and needs to be addressed. Along with the hatred of Jews is tremendous self-deception, based in feelings of deep inferiority.

Let me cite one rather bizarre example. Despite its weirdness, it is widely believed throughout the Middle East, along with a great many other fallacies. I first heard it from an educated Lebanese Muslim, studying to become an electronics engineer in the US, back in the 1980s.

“The only way the Israelis could have defeated several Arab armies several times was because they were armed by the US. Most(!) of the US defense budget goes to buy arms for Israel.”

How unbelievable. Yet when I tried to argue with him he refused to admit even the possibility. He would not, because he *could not* admit not just Israeli military superiority created just by Israel, but more importantly, the great *inferiority* of the Arab armies fighting them, despite (unspoken) massive support from the Soviet Union.

Arab armies. Muslim armies. With the flag of Allah over them. Beaten down like dogs. Humiliated.

The reason that self deception like this is both important and needs to be addressed, is because of the outgrowths of these lies. Here is one of them:

“Because Israel could have only beaten these Muslim armies with the extraordinary weapons and money from America, were America to stop giving these weapons and money to Israel, Israel would fall apart and cease to exist. THEREFORE, America is ultimately to blame for all of this.”

And this delusion has become paramount throughout the Muslim world, even outside the Arab parts, like Iran. It is *why* Iran calls America “The Great Satan”. And throughout the Middle East, why Americans are called “oppressors of Muslims”.

This matters very much to America, especially in the case of Iran.

Iran wants nuclear weapons because it will give them (they think) “their place in the Sun”. Military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East, with the secondary goal of establishing a “Shiite crescent” (that no other Shiites want), with Iran controlling Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.

For them, Israel is a great whipping boy, but not their primary target. They figure that if by whatever means, they can drive the US completely out of the Middle East and its waterways, Israel will “wither on the vine”, so is much less important.

And, like Aladdin’s genie, nuclear weapons will get them everything they want with minimal effort. Truly stupid. And based on incredible self-deception.

But again, this is why it is so vital to understand the lies they teach their children, and to at least make an effort to prove them wrong. Otherwise is almost a guarantee of endless strife in the Middle East.

Hatred of Jews is a given. The Muslims hate them, the leftists hate them, and there is no way to appease the endless complaints against them, because they are founded in lies and self deception.

Just trying to tell them otherwise won’t work, either, because in the minds of many of them they *have* to believe the lies, because the truth is too awful to contemplate.


14 posted on 04/21/2012 9:23:19 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("It is already like a government job," he said, "but with goats." -- Iranian goat smuggler)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Anti-semitism is the human equivalent of rabies in an animal. As a rabid animal is handled so should an anti-semitic be handled, shot on sight and quickly buried deep to contain the contagion.


15 posted on 04/21/2012 10:23:38 AM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: Kaslin

Just waiting for the “They voted for Obama, so they deserve it” contingent to arrive.

Fortunately, the are like Cartman from South Park, ie: the example that proves the point.


16 posted on 04/21/2012 1:09:03 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: SaraJohnson
I think liberal American Jews vote for radicals because they follow leaders who hate Christians (Christ) more than they love their own freedom and lives. In a recent survey published on Beck’s web site last week, 90 percent of Jews said they prefer Muslims over Christians.

That's not too hard to understand.

Here, now, in America, you have evangelicals that want to use their bible as the template for American government (ie: just look here at the Free Republic). THEIRS, you see, is obviously different than the Tanakh, the Five Books of Moses.

And they know how much better things got in America for their parents from the 1960s on. Associating the advance of liberalism with the end of religious restrictions to things like country clubs, hospitals, and universities. (Yes, there is a reason why so many hospitals have Jewish names; like Mt. Sinai)

And they look back at their grandparents, who either fought against the Nazis or survived the death camps. And Nazi Germany used religion as a motivator for their people to support their government. So Christianity is associated with that as well.

And their great-grandparents mostly came from eastern Europe, where the church had an important role in organizing the pogroms that so many fled to America to escape.

And before that, there was so many things with which Europe's governments, peoples, and institutions did to the Jewish people that it has become a foundation for distrust. Expulsions, special identifying clothing, Inquisitions, you name it.

Whereas for Muslims, you have the Muslim states from the Middle East that are a problem for the world. But other Muslims states, like: Mayalsia, Indonesia, Albania, etc, etc... aren't as bad.

And there still is the history that shows, in the past, that Jews were better treated in Islamic Spain and in the Ottoman Empire. Some of the most famous Jewish sages came from those areas. Most famously, being the Rambam (Maimonides).

17 posted on 04/21/2012 1:35:19 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: W. W. SMITH

Unfortunately, using the rabies analogy, you are looking at 1b+ infections, so shooting is generally out of the question. But the analogy is not a bad one, because other methods could include isolation, and if at all possible, inoculation of others so they do not develop the disease.

In this case, however, it is doubly difficult, because those with the disease do not wish to be inoculated, imagining some benefit from the disease and fearing “health” as too difficult an alternative.


18 posted on 04/21/2012 1:49:00 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("It is already like a government job," he said, "but with goats." -- Iranian goat smuggler)
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To: gogogodzilla

See post# 4


19 posted on 04/21/2012 1:52:25 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: gogogodzilla

And there still is the history that shows, in the past, that Jews were better treated in Islamic Spain and in the Ottoman Empire. Some of the most famous Jewish sages came from those areas. Most famously, being the Rambam (Maimonides).


You have got to be kidding. LOL

I know the rationale for the bigotry and the never ending thirst for revenge laid in history. But that obsession for revenge is keeping eyes focused on the past and not seeing what is in the works and unfolding right now. Tribalist hate and living in a cycle of revenge has a way of blinding people to current reality. Hate can always be rationalized but it’s nothing to be proud of.


20 posted on 04/21/2012 2:24:41 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson

Believe what you will. Islamic Spain was a golden age for Jewry. Major philosophical works were written and new liturgy developed. Also, it was a time where, unlike the rest of Europe, individual Jews could work their way up in society... and did not live in fear of persecution.

As for the Ottomans, where to you think many European Jews fled to when Spain expelled all their Jews after the Reconquista (which, I might add, was not revoked until 1968, yes... 1968) and when the Spanish Inquisition kicked into high gear? As the Sultan of the time stated, “Ye call Ferdinand a wise king he who makes his land poor and ours rich!”

It wasn’t until the 18th century that the Ottoman empire became a place that wasn’t very welcoming for Jewry.


21 posted on 04/21/2012 9:55:24 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: gogogodzilla
And there still is the history that shows, in the past, that Jews were better treated in Islamic Spain and in the Ottoman Empire. Some of the most famous Jewish sages came from those areas. Most famously, being the Rambam (Maimonides).

Point taken, but Rambam is a bad example. He fled Spain as a boy to escape fundamentalist Muslims who had taken power and were persecuting/forcibly converting Jews. However, on your point, he did not go to Christian Europe. Instead, he went to Morocco and eventually Egypt - where more tolerant Muslims afforded him freedoms that would have been unheard of in Europe at the time.

22 posted on 04/21/2012 10:03:53 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (.)
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To: gogogodzilla

Thanks for the Jewish history lesson.

It still makes no sense to base tribal hate and love on what happened in history while ignoring what is happening now. That is why they call hate insane.


23 posted on 04/21/2012 10:06:39 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: ChicagoHebrew

True, but he is the most famous.

:-P

But yeah, as the Reconquista got more and more successful, things got worse and worse for Jewry in Islamic Spain.


24 posted on 04/21/2012 10:14:09 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: SaraJohnson
Soros has built a political empire on hating Jews/Israel.

He's built his entire life on it, beginning as a collaborator with the Gestapo in Hungary as a young man.

25 posted on 04/22/2012 12:42:07 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: gogogodzilla
Your recital of Jewry's dislike of Christians seems to me to overlook a couple of points.

One, the distrust of Southern evangelicals is misplaced. Antisemitism was foreign to the South, whose Confederate government elevated Judah Benjamin to Jefferson Davis's cabinet. Southerners did not imbibe antisemitism the way tony Northeasterners did after the Civil War, and only began to be cross with Jews after liberal and Communist Jewish lawyers started showing up at defense tables in notorious cases of black-on-white rape, the very worst offense under Jim Crow, to perform a conspicuous mitzvah at the expense of the defeated South. Before that, antisemitism was nonexistent below Mason-Dixon.

Two, the evangelicals and fundies (I am neither) have offered Israel and the Jews the most steadfast support and respect of any group or subgroup in America, but according to you they deserve no credit for that, because they respect their own faith, too.

If that really is the case, that Jews prefer the company of Moslems to that of Christians, then the obvious solution is for all Jews to become residents of the West Bank. The Moslems can go crazy killing Jews, the Jews can rejoice in their tolerant neighbors, and the American Christian community can look on in befuddlement, but no longer despised because no longer neighbors. Would that make everyone happy, do you think?

26 posted on 04/22/2012 1:02:14 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Kaslin
From the Hadith: He (Abu Hurayah) reported the messenger of Allah as saying: The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

I would say that's a pretty good reason why Muslims hate the Jews!

27 posted on 04/22/2012 8:42:51 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: lentulusgracchus

Just two things:

1. WTF? Where did you see anything about American anti-semitism in my posts, north or south?

2. What made you think that an explanation of how past Jewish history influences current Jewish thought equals that Arab Moslems are tolerant of Jews? Seriously, dude... WTF?

It’s no more than explaining why the Mongol invasion of Russia created a situation where Russians today don’t much like the Mongols... despite the fact that Mongolia hasn’t been a thorn in Russia’s side for nearly a thousand years.


Seriously, your train of thought makes absolutely no sense to me.


28 posted on 04/22/2012 2:18:49 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: gogogodzilla
1. WTF? Where did you see anything about American anti-semitism in my posts, north or south?

Dang, I wish this place had an edit button.

Meant to write:

1. WTF? Where did you see anything about Southern anti-semitism in my posts?

29 posted on 04/22/2012 2:20:54 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: gogogodzilla
WTF? Where did you see anything about American anti-semitism in my posts, north or south?

Your comment about Christians -- American Christians. In context, you couldn't have been talking about anybody else, since you didn't specify "Christians except for American ones."

30 posted on 04/22/2012 5:25:32 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: gogogodzilla
Southern anti-semitism

I was pointing out that your comment re Christian antisemitism is false at least in part and offering the argument, falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

You're describing a Jewish community in the States (what we were originally talking about) that overgeneralizes about American Christians, imputing to them the impulses of the German and Russian Christian pogroms of the High Middle Ages, and the Spanish Inquisition and the forced conversion of the moriscos.

Clearer now?

I was pointing to the fact that Southerners, Christian almost to a man historically, have been remarkably free of animus toward Jews -- something Jews don't acknowledge according to you -- except on those few occasions when the ACLU or someone equally pink sent Jewish lawyers south to annoy the locals.

31 posted on 04/22/2012 5:33:54 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: gogogodzilla
What made you think that an explanation of how past Jewish history influences current Jewish thought equals that Arab Moslems are tolerant of Jews? Seriously, dude... WTF

You keep saying that, as if I'd said something really stupid. Knock it off, you know exactly what I mean.

You said that, despite the fact that Southern Baptists and other fundies and evangelicals are some of the most stalwart friends Israel could have, that American Jews -- or is that all Jews? -- prefer Moslems as neighbors.

I tested your commitment and fidelity to your statement by suggesting that Jews who prefer the company of tolerant Moslems try the West Bank, whose denizens are, as you said and not I, more pleasing to Jews, who distrust and fear those Christians.

Am I getting this right, or is there a piece missing, something you forgot to tell us, about Jewish aversion to strongly religious Christian believers?

Are you telling us that Jews would prefer to live among amoral materialists and people who indulge the practices of Egypt?

32 posted on 04/22/2012 5:44:07 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Kaslin
How do you circumcize an elephant?

Very carefully.

33 posted on 04/22/2012 6:59:20 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: lentulusgracchus
You said that, despite the fact that Southern Baptists and other fundies and evangelicals are some of the most stalwart friends Israel could have, that American Jews -- or is that all Jews? -- prefer Moslems as neighbors.

No, I said that, in the living past, American Jewry experienced discrimination, most clearly showed with college, hospital, and country club admissions. And gave proof with an example of why you can find hospitals with names like "Mt. Sinai..." or "Beth Israel...".

Which influenced how they raised their children.

And I showed that, in the past, it was far better for a Jew to live in places like Islamic Spain or the early Ottoman Empire... as compared to Christian Europe, where... for the most part, you could expect blood libels, confiscation of wealth, and expulsion - if you were lucky.

And somehow you conflate that with a general Jewish desire to live with current Arab Muslim nations.

---

All this was an just an explanation of past history that has shaped the culture of those who actions you puzzle over. Which is why I brought up the Russians vis a vis the Mongols. It's the same thing, an explanation of why they act the way they do on certain issues. (for the Russians... their reactions to the Mongols)

34 posted on 04/22/2012 9:12:13 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: gogogodzilla
American Jewry experienced discrimination, most clearly showed with college, hospital, and country club admissions. And gave proof with an example of why you can find hospitals with names like "Mt. Sinai..." or "Beth Israel...".

Well, that is what I was contesting w/r/t the South. I don't think there was anything like the persistent antisemitism that grew up in the resort country of New York and the drawing rooms of our leading cities 140 years ago. You don't have Jewish colleges, hospitals, etc., in the south. In New Orleans, though -- it's been abandoned now for many years, but it still stands -- you had a very big turn-of-the-century synagogue to testify to the presence and activity of the New Orleans Jewish community.

I can understand keeping memories of the former discrimination, which is gone now; but the Calvinists of the South were never Jewry's problem and are their friends now. Maybe American Jews could come to recognize that -- and quit voting for secular Marxists and supporting the Marxist-materialist-postmodernist beatdown of America's authentic Jacksonian values, as they survive in the South?

35 posted on 04/22/2012 9:35:29 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Kaslin

We are doing world class gymnastic back bends daily in this country because people of African descent were once kept as slaves.

Yet American blacks were never targeted as a group for mass murder. They were never hated en masse and put in death camps.

Now no one publicly admits that Jews are such targets, historically and TODAY. We are afraid to blame a violent black boy for his death by shooting, because he was black, and descended from victims, and this is huge politically, but Jews targeted for extermination is not really news or a big public deal.


36 posted on 04/22/2012 11:48:17 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: SaraJohnson

. In a recent survey published on Beck’s web site last week, 90 percent of Jews said they perfer Muslims over Christians.


Ridiculous. I know not one Jew, no matter how liberal, who feels that way. We know who our enemies are.

Most liberal Jews I know or have recently talked to want to vote for Romney. They no longer want Obama and they are pretty firm about it.


37 posted on 04/22/2012 11:53:35 PM PDT by Yaelle
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