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George Zimmerman: Self-defense hearing could dismiss death charge(FL)
orlandosentinel.com ^ | 11 April, 2012 | Henry Pierson Curtis

Posted on 04/13/2012 6:47:55 AM PDT by marktwain

George Zimmerman can ask to have the second-degree-murder charge against him dropped without having to stand trial in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Two years ago, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that anyone claiming "stand your ground" immunity in a death, battery or assault case can request a hearing on the evidence.

The hearing allows the prosecution and defense to argue all the elements of self-defense in the case evidence. To get charges dismissed, the accused must convince the judge that a reasonable person would believe that using deadly force or the threat of deadly force was the only way to protect his or her life, court records show.

The state's "stand your ground" law passed in 2005 says:

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

----------------------cut----------------------

Berman said he thinks Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, will request an evidentiary hearing as part of his defense of Zimmerman's "stand your ground" claim.

(Excerpt) Read more at articles.orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; martin; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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I would suspect a pre-trial hearing as well. Given what we know about the case, I would ordinarily expect the charges to be dismissed, absent new evidence.

But, given the political nature of this case, I expect a show trial.

1 posted on 04/13/2012 6:48:11 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

The reporting on this law has been atrocious. It merely adds another aspect to the basic law on self-defense. It does not change any of the exclusions under which self-defense cannot be claimed, notably while in the commission of a felony.

All it does is remove the duty to retreat. Which personally I think may not be entirely a good thing.

The SYG law quite probably has no application in the Zimmerman case, but this case will be used to demonize the law. Count on it.


2 posted on 04/13/2012 6:52:19 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: marktwain

I’m getting the impression that this affair is a hot potato that’s being juggled around from one agency to the next in an effort to avoid responsibility for the riots.


3 posted on 04/13/2012 6:52:36 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: marktwain

If nothingi else a “self defense” hearing would be an excellent discovery devise and an chance to cross examine the girlfriend who seems to be the prosecution’s entire case.


4 posted on 04/13/2012 6:53:37 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: marktwain

I started the day with a prayer for George.
I am sure millions of Americans are praying for him with me.
I believe he defended himself before T could render him unconscious by beating his head on the concrete, and just before T could grab his gun and shoot George.


5 posted on 04/13/2012 6:53:37 AM PDT by TheConservativeParty ("Liberalism lives in a gated community surrounded by a mote." R.H.Limbaugh 4-3-2012)
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To: marktwain

We saw the Florida Supremes in action in 2000, I think we all know how they will rule, bunch of losers for the most part.

The sad part is what Jose Biaz(sp) said this morning on CNN, this case will be won or lost at jury selection.

He went on to fully agree with Alan Dershowitz(sp)


6 posted on 04/13/2012 6:55:06 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge (SARAH PALIN 2012 OR FLIPPIN BUST)
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To: marktwain
Two years ago, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that anyone claiming "stand your ground" immunity in a death, battery or assault case can request a hearing on the evidence.

Damn! Florida and Texas; you gotta love those two States.
7 posted on 04/13/2012 6:57:14 AM PDT by no dems (TED CRUZ: A PROVEN CONSERVATIVE FOR U.S. SENATE FROM TEXAS.)
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To: marktwain

Can you imagine the scheduling and caseload excuses Florida judges are coming up with to dodge this toxic event?


8 posted on 04/13/2012 6:57:23 AM PDT by blackdog (There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
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To: marktwain
There are two entities at play here...the State of Florida and the Feds.Florida,I'll wager,is proceeding with prosecution in order to avoid Rodney King II.If that's correct then,regardless of what the law may say or intend,a trial will take place.A dismissal in a preliminary hearing will very probably bring about riots...perhaps nationwide (coordinated,of course,by Osama Obama Victory 2012 Headquarters).

The Feds will prosecute simply because it's good politics and Osama & Friends have come to enjoy life in DC.

9 posted on 04/13/2012 6:57:32 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: marktwain; xzins

Here’s the bottom line. Zimmerman was carrying a gun legally. He had not used it until he was laying on the ground with a broken nose and his head being beaten on the concrete.

Anyone with any brains left would have to assume that if he lost consciousness, then the guy who was beating his head against the concrete would be more than happy to finish him off with the gun after he lost consciousness. There is also evidence that Mr. Martin had told Zimmerman that he was going to “die tonight”.

Is there anyone on free republic who would not have used their gun to protect themselves in this situation?


10 posted on 04/13/2012 6:58:11 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Friendofgeorge

Heard the 911 call again on the way to work. Zimmerman clearly stopped following Martin. He didn’t want to say his address because he didn’t know where Martin was and might hear where he lives. At that point Martin became the hunter.


11 posted on 04/13/2012 6:58:42 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Sherman Logan
The SYG law quite probably has no application in the Zimmerman case, but this case will be used to demonize the law. Count on it.

Which is the reason self-defense advocates NEED for the SYG law to be front and center in this case. We need to hold the Left's advance HERE; here and no farther. A line in the sand. We need to "stand our ground" as it were, on the SYG law.

Because if SYG falls, self-defense is next.

12 posted on 04/13/2012 6:59:30 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Friendofgeorge

We saw the Florida Supremes in action in 2000, I think we all know how they will rule, bunch of losers for the most part.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

They already ruled in 2010. Read the Article.


13 posted on 04/13/2012 7:01:18 AM PDT by no dems (TED CRUZ: A PROVEN CONSERVATIVE FOR U.S. SENATE FROM TEXAS.)
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To: circlecity
If nothing else a “self defense” hearing would be an excellent discovery devise and an chance to cross examine the girlfriend who seems to be the prosecution’s entire case.

Is there *any* doubt that the girlfriend will lie her a$$ off in order to make the kid look like a fawn in a golden meadow and Zimmerman look like a hunter packing an M-60?

14 posted on 04/13/2012 7:01:57 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: marktwain

And that show trial, if it results in anything but acquittal sets a hugely dangerous precedent.

Anyone of us could be George Zimmerman.

I don’t want anyone to ever question whether they should live or die while they are getting their head smashed on concrete and they have the means to resist.

The answer is self obvious and has nothing to do with any Stand Your Ground laws. The Right to Self Defense has been with us since time immemorium.


15 posted on 04/13/2012 7:02:11 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (A Bounty on Zimmerman, Can Be A Bounty On ANYONE. No NBPP Mob Justice!)
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To: P-Marlowe
There is also evidence that Mr. Martin had told Zimmerman that he was going to “die tonight”.

Never heard this...where's it from?

16 posted on 04/13/2012 7:04:27 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
I’m getting the impression that this affair is a hot potato that’s being juggled around from one agency to the next in an effort to avoid responsibility for the riots.

Photobucket

17 posted on 04/13/2012 7:04:35 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Gay State Conservative
"Is there *any* doubt that the girlfriend will lie her a$$ off in order to make the kid look like a fawn in a golden meadow and Zimmerman look like a hunter packing an M-60?"

Which is exactly why you want to cross examine her long before trial. This way she can be "locked in" on her story over every conceivable detail. If she lying then a little bit of subsequent investigation will enable her to be destroyed on the witness stand come time for trial.

18 posted on 04/13/2012 7:04:58 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: marktwain

In other news (that the MSM really doesn’t want you to know about)

Trevor Dooley’s lawyers seek dismissal in Tampa ‘stand your ground’ case(FL)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2871590/posts

Seems the ‘shoe is on the other foot’, in that case.


19 posted on 04/13/2012 7:05:17 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: P-Marlowe

Here’s a case where a ‘guy’ did exactly that. In FLORIDA.

AND... guess his ethnic origin.

Trevor Dooley’s lawyers seek dismissal in Tampa ‘stand your ground’ case(FL)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2871590/posts


20 posted on 04/13/2012 7:07:52 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: marktwain

I say he gets convicted because as we all know there are two kinds of laws in this country: The set of laws of normal sane people and the set of laws of liberals where self defense is illegal unless you get killed first then just maybe you have a right to defend yourself after you’ve been killed but that all depends on the race of the assailant. Zimmerman is being tried under the laws of liberals and clearly he broke the law by not getting killed first before he acted in self defense which would still have been illegal because the assailant was black.


21 posted on 04/13/2012 7:12:00 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Someday our schools will teach the difference between lose and loose.)
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To: marktwain
I agree. If the judge has the courage to do the right thing, the case will be dismissed. I hope and pray this will happen, but I don't expect it.

She would not only take political heat, but her life and the lives of her family members would be in danger from the racist lynch mob that Sharpton, Jackson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the Democrat Party, the New Black Panther Party, Barack Obama, Eric Holder, Martin's parents and the main stream media have been working up into a murderous frenzy, with their lies, distortions and hate speech.

It would be somewhat easier for a jury to acquit him, as they would be relatively anonymous.

If Judge Jessica Recksiedler does the right thing and dismisses the charges, she will prove herself to be one of the most courageous and just judges to ever wear a robe.

22 posted on 04/13/2012 7:14:45 AM PDT by Above My Pay Grade (The candidate I vote for will NOT have a CARE after his name.)
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To: P-Marlowe

OUTSTANDING! You get it sir/ma’am.

“Anyone with any brains left would have to assume that if he lost consciousness, then the guy who was beating his head against the concrete would be more than happy to finish him off with the gun after he lost consciousness. There is also evidence that Mr. Martin had told Zimmerman that he was going to “die tonight”.

And this is exactly the argument the defense attorney should introduce.

“Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, my client, under Florida Statutory law, had every right to carry a firearm, was carrying it in accordance with law, and because of the vicious assault by the decedant Trayvon Martin, my client was losing consciousness. My client was very congnizant that if he lost consciousness, he was armed with a firearm and would be at the COMPLETE MERCY OF HIS ASSAILANT. He had no choice but to save his own life. Yes, he shot Trayvon Martin, not to take his life, but to stop Trayvons violent and FELONIOUS assault against him. Remember, he only fired once, and had the opportunity to fire multiple times, which would have almost certainly ensured the death of Martin, but he only fired ONCE. Martin died as a tragic, but unintended result of being shot ONCE and as a result of my client trying to save his own life.”


23 posted on 04/13/2012 7:15:34 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (A Bounty on Zimmerman, Can Be A Bounty On ANYONE. No NBPP Mob Justice!)
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To: marktwain

The racial angle is a mask for an attack on Stand Your Ground and self-defense everywhere.

A second Obama term will mean a liberal majority on the Supreme Court. They will revisit the Second Amendment rulings and restrict your rights to inside your home.

I would not be surprised if they use the Martin or some other case to test self-defense as a right, because without self-defense, the Second Amendment is empty.


24 posted on 04/13/2012 7:15:52 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
...going to “die tonight”.

It's something Zimmerman's daddy said Georgie told him. And that after he shot Trayvon, the lad clutched his chest and said, "Ya got me!".

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

25 posted on 04/13/2012 7:16:56 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: circlecity
“Is there *any* doubt that the girlfriend will lie her a$$ off in order to make the kid look like a fawn in a golden meadow and Zimmerman look like a hunter packing an M-60?”

Um, how about we don't prejudge any part of the case, including the honesty of the girlfriend until she presents her testimony. Lots of time after that to decide if she's lying. That would be the conservative point of view instead of spewing venom on someone you've never met and know nothing about.
26 posted on 04/13/2012 7:17:56 AM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: marktwain
Given that the whole prosecution of Zimmerman is in response to avoid tribal parasites' uprising, I doubt that a finding of Fact that self-defense was the case will be remotely possible now....the State went too far, and can't turn back, to save face.

Likewise, there can be no CIVIL LITIGATION LOTTO for the Martins, if Self-Defense is rightly found, either. The irony would be that the thug yewt is gone, and the "family" can't cash in on his removal.

27 posted on 04/13/2012 7:18:18 AM PDT by traditional1 (Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: massgopguy

Just to correct one detail: he didn’t go through 911. He had a number that took him directly to a police dispatcher.


28 posted on 04/13/2012 7:23:58 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: Gay State Conservative
The Feds will prosecute simply because it’
s good politics <<<<<<

“When Al and Jesse pull their shtick....

There is no way we can acquit!!”

29 posted on 04/13/2012 7:26:44 AM PDT by M-cubed
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To: Cheburashka
A lot of venom was spewed here because Trayvon had a "@no_limit_nigga" twitter account.

Yet, not one word was uttered about Zimmerman's "datniggytb" MySpace account.

Why?

30 posted on 04/13/2012 7:29:55 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: marktwain
But, given the political nature of this case, I expect a show trial.

Given the political nature of this case, I expect a light to eventually go on in somebody's head and the Dems to drop it and run like hell before they set off a Hispanic vs. Black race war that destroys their party.

If this actually goes to trial I expect Zimmermann's supporters to begin running ads on Spanish media saying "I am being railroaded". The efforts of LaRaza not withstanding I expect most Hispanics to take his side. The Dems need to find a way out of this before it turns into O.J. or it will destroy them.
31 posted on 04/13/2012 7:31:52 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Molon Labbie
“Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, my client, under Florida Statutory law, had every right to carry a firearm, was carrying it in accordance with law, and because of the vicious assault by the decedent Trayvon Martin, my client was losing consciousness. My client was very cognizant that if he lost consciousness, he was armed with a firearm and would be at the COMPLETE MERCY OF HIS ASSAILANT. He had no choice but to save his own life. Yes, he shot Trayvon Martin, not to take his life, but to stop Trayvons violent and FELONIOUS assault against him. Remember, he only fired once, and had the opportunity to fire multiple times, which would have almost certainly ensured the death of Martin, but he only fired ONCE. Martin died as a tragic, but unintended result of being shot ONCE and as a result of my client trying to save his own life.”

Excellent argument.But you've gotta know that an "OJ II" jury won't hear a word of it,just as surely as the original OJ jury didn't hear one word of the DNA evidence.

32 posted on 04/13/2012 7:32:03 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: miss marmelstein
Just to correct one detail: he didn’t go through 911. He had a number that took him directly to a police dispatcher.

Interesting tidbit.IMO this is indicative of a guy who took his job seriously and wasn't out to administer any kind of "vigilante justice".

33 posted on 04/13/2012 7:36:06 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Cheburashka

I don’t want to impugn her honesty, but you could infer from the news (I know, very unreliable in this case) that Benjamin Crump, the Martin family lawyer, spent hours with that girl before law enforcement ever interviewed her. Zimmerman’s lawyers are unlikely to have talked to her at all at this point.

Which would of course be a failure on the part of law enforcement. From news reports, (reliability issue again), the police did not use Trayvon Martin’s cell phone to identify him early on, and did not check his calling history during the time in question.


34 posted on 04/13/2012 7:37:08 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: P-Marlowe
Is there anyone on free republic who would not have used their gun to protect themselves in this situation?

What if Zimmerman (hypothetical, I know) is replaced by a plain-clothes POLICE OFFICER in the same situation?

Are there any instances of a police officer NOT shooting a person who is in the process of beating the police officer to death?

In fact, most police never allow a confrontation to get that far, they SHOOT first. They stand their ground.

35 posted on 04/13/2012 7:38:24 AM PDT by Huebolt (It's not over until there is not ONE DEMOCRAT HOLDING OFFICE ANYWHERE. Not even a dog catcher!)
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To: marktwain
I would not hold my breath on getting the case dismissed in an immunity hearing.

The evidentiary standard is clear and convincing (eg 90% sure) vs beyond a reasonable doubt (eg 99% sure).

Given the political nature of the case its highly unlikely the judge will grant the motion.

36 posted on 04/13/2012 7:53:11 AM PDT by montanajoe
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To: Alice in Wonderland
A lot of venom was spewed here because Trayvon had a "@no_limit_nigga" twitter account.

Yet, not one word was uttered about Zimmerman's "datniggytb" MySpace account.

Why?


Apparently, the nickname was given to him by black friends and the "tb" alludes to "tugboat". If anything, this would tend to support the argument against any racial motive or so-called "hate crime". +1 for GZ. LINK
37 posted on 04/13/2012 7:54:12 AM PDT by kevcol
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To: P-Marlowe

I agree with all you said. Furthermore...if it was Tryvon screaming likw hia mother said, why did his father say it was not Trayvon on the tape?...why is it that Zimmerman had all the bruises and gashes on him? Why is it the witness saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman early in the incident? I heard Judge Jeanine say on Fox today he spoke racial slurs on the 911 recording. THAT IS UNTRUE. I went to the City of Sanford and listened to every 911 call. Zimmermans and the witnesses. They pulled the calls from their website but I never heard one racial slur from Zimmerman.


38 posted on 04/13/2012 7:54:15 AM PDT by sheikdetailfeather ("We Need To Teach The Establishment a Lesson" - Newt Gingrich)
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To: Molon Labbie

“And that show trial, if it results in anything but acquittal sets a hugely dangerous precedent.

Anyone of us could be George Zimmerman.”

Trayvon Martin is the new Horst Wessel-Ernst vom Rath construct. ‘Kristallnacht’ is probably already planned and budgeted.


39 posted on 04/13/2012 7:59:05 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (They promised me a White Horse and all I got was this whitewashed jackass.)
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To: marktwain

The case they compare it to that was rejected as SYG is a bogus comparison. These 2 drunk idiots were being thrown out of a bar by the bouncer and one of them stabbed him! That is totally apples to oranges with Z.

I PRAY O’Mara presents Z’s case and the judge sees it clearly as SYG which it is IMVHO.


40 posted on 04/13/2012 8:06:59 AM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: marktwain

This is just another example of bias against obama.

Unlike Pontius Pilate he will be denied the opportunity to “wash his hands”, and let our generation see another Jew die for our sins.


41 posted on 04/13/2012 8:08:20 AM PDT by wendell
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To: Alice in Wonderland

I’d believe Mr. Zimmerman before I’d believe anything you have to say. After all, you are in Wonderland.


42 posted on 04/13/2012 8:13:40 AM PDT by beandog (Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand)
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To: Psalm 144

Prayers that it does not happen. Most Americans have no idea what Kristallnacht was either...can’t have that being taught in school; that would interfere with “how to get your check 101”.


43 posted on 04/13/2012 8:16:37 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (A Bounty on Zimmerman, Can Be A Bounty On ANYONE. No NBPP Mob Justice!)
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To: sheikdetailfeather

>>>I agree with all you said. Furthermore...if it was Tryvon screaming likw hia mother said, why did his father say it was not Trayvon on the tape?...<<<

Also, if she heard her son screaming for his life on the tapes, why did she say yesterday that the shooting was “an accident”.

At first I thought her “accident” comment would be irrelevant in court, but now that I see that the prosecution is using her as a key “witness”, that comment and her later retraction could undermine her credibility, as does the fact that she has been seeking to cash in on her son’s death by trademarking “Justice for Trayvon” and “I am Trayvon Martin”.

While on the subject of the screams on the 911 tapes, I find it curious that the prosecution cited the mother’s claim that it was Martin for a couple of reasons.

1) I had not previously heard that she identified the screams as TM’s. My guess is that the special prosecutor very recently had her listen to the tapes (after TM’s father said the screams were NOT Trayvon’s) and that she was either coached into claiming it was TM or knew that the claim would help her case.

2) Could they really find no expert in voice analysis to testify that the screams were Trayvon’s and not Zimmerman’s? The lack of such expert testimony makes me about 99.9% sure that the screams were clearly Zimmerman’s and that this will be proven.

It is not difficult to dig up a paid “expert” witness to testify to just about anything, unless they know such testimony could be conclusively proven false, putting the “expert” in danger of perjury charges.


44 posted on 04/13/2012 8:17:06 AM PDT by Above My Pay Grade (The candidate I vote for will NOT have a CARE after his name.)
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To: Sherman Logan
The SYG law quite probably has no application in the Zimmerman case

That was my understanding too.

But according to Fox News, Zim's new lawyer does intend to invoke the "stand your ground" in order to qualify the case for the pre-trial dismissal opportunity.

I don't know if Fox got that right, or if I understood it correctly.

Even if this information is correct, I still wouldn't expect a judge to have the courage to dismiss it.

45 posted on 04/13/2012 8:18:05 AM PDT by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Sherman Logan

How could Zimmerman retreat with a 6’3” Trayvon according to witnesses beating him up on top of him with the cement to his back? Self defense all the way IMO.

Especially since we know Trayvon went running away and came back to attack himself.


47 posted on 04/13/2012 8:21:40 AM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
I’m getting the impression that this affair is a hot potato that’s being juggled around from one agency to the next in an effort to avoid responsibility for the riots.

You nailed it.
The only solution is to make sure Zimmerman is convicted and goes to jail and so the politicians will make sure that happens.

48 posted on 04/13/2012 8:23:03 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: A CA Guy
Especially since we know Trayvon went running away and came back to attack himself.

________________________________________

Yep, we do know that Martin ran but there has been absolutely no testimony or evidense that he came back and attacked.

If you have proof of your statement of what you "know", please provide it.

49 posted on 04/13/2012 8:27:50 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Alice in Wonderland

why is it so hard for you to believe that if a guy is bashing his brains in he wouldn’t also say ‘you’re going to die tonight?’

You are WAY too transaparent ‘Alice in the hood’.


50 posted on 04/13/2012 8:28:33 AM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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