Skip to comments.Family: Man didn't kill black teen in self-defense
Posted on 03/17/2012 9:53:56 AM PDT by redreno
SANFORD, Fla. (AP) -- Calls made to police show that a black teenager was terrified as he tried to get away from the white neighborhood watch volunteer who shot him, and that the volunteer was not defending himself as he has claimed, the teen's family told The Associated Press on Saturday.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
by andyinga March 13, 2012 3:22 PM EDT
This is not the real story. George called 911 to report a suspicious person. As he got off the phone the kid attacked him and started beating the crap out of him and slamming his head against the walkway. All the while saying youre gunna die tonight motherfxxxxx George was screaming help when someone in a nearby apartment called 911 again. Georges shirt came up while the kid was beating him, revealing the gun that he is licensed to carry. The kid went for the gun and they struggled for it, George ended up shooting the kid and saving his own life. All these people on yahoo saying that he should be in jail when they dont even know what happened. George is the brother-in-law of one of our good family friends, works with my parents, and is one of the nicest most gentle people you will ever meet. Hes completely devastated that this happened and has barely been functional from the guilt. No one shoots someone for no reason, and especially not George. And they need to stop pulling the race card, George is hispanic, not white.
Here is another thread where we discussed this on freerepublic previously.
Trayvon Martin was on a week’s suspension from his High School, and a stranger at the gated community.
All the police investigation has said that the physical evidence is consistant with Mr. Zimmerman’s claims of self defense.
Zimmerman was bleeding from the face and back of the head when the police arrived. Zimmerman says that he was yelling for help and no one would help him.
It is very difficult to make up a story that is consistent with the physical evidence when the encounter occured in darkness and the police were there within minutes.
If the other party is another approved minority, hispanic, then the race card loses a lot of its power.
What I wrote is not an example of question-begging.
Would this guy have shot you or me if we didn’t comply with his demands? I wouldn’t react kindly to some guy trying to detain me while I was walking down the street minding my own business. I don’t know if he put his hands on the teen, I was just thinking about what I would do in that situation.
Do the tapes say "Oh My God, He's coming right at me!"?
All witnesses say it was a young sounding voice.
Impossible! My local news just put up a kindergarten graduation picture of a smiling Trayvon all dressed in white. He looks like an angel.
Seriously, I don't know exactly what happened, and most people who've made up their minds don't either. I do believe that this is really going to be a full out assault on gun rights being waged by the Democrats and other assorted scum regardless of the truth.
It was previously brought up that Zimmerman had problems earlier, so I thought it was just as relevant that Martin had problems ongoing.
We do not know what those problems consisted of.
Didja read post #51? There’s also a witness that supports most of that version. Zimmerman may be sacrificed on the altar of diversity and political correctness but I’m betting it went down more or less like he said it did.
And there’s NOTHING on ANY of those 911 tapes to dispute Zimmerman’s version.
And you cannot discern that accuracy is not the issue, it is biased intent to influence that is the issue.
I wouldn’t believe a word from anyone who emails the Huffington Post.
Would you believe someone who wrote to CBS?
This is one case where some self-appointed lawman with a chip on his shoulder assumed wrongdoing with no evidence to back it up, then killed someone who was actually innocent of wrongdoing. I’m all for self-defense, but this is not a case of legitimate self-defense. He deserves prison.
I don't believe much of what anyone says anyone, until it's verifiable independently.
HOA meetings are usually legally required to keep minutes, so if what the lefty's claim is true, it will be supported by evidence.
that said, I could see a lefty wanting to screw a law-and-order, gun-owning activist, and they rarely have any scruples when doing so.
Me, I'll wait for the trial.
Sophisticates like you can trust local news opinion pieces and the NBPP.
I think the real question is who do we believe?
Two competing scenarios have been presented. Each of them seem rather unlikely in some ways, which is why this type of situation is quite rare.
We pay some people (the police) to gather evidence to determine what story is more likely to be correct. In this case, the police say that all the evidence is consistent with Zimmerman's story of self defense.
Martin's side is enraged that a young life was destroyed, but they have no real evidence to dispute what Zimmerman says. They simply throw down the race card. The police are racist. Zimmerman must be a racist.
To aggravate this, the MSM love to play the race card because it fits their premise of a racist America.
It is sad and tragic that a young man was killed, but from 15 to 25 is the most dangerous period in life for young males.
We don’t know what happened physically between the two. Not even the eyewitnesses seem to be sure what happened.
All we know is a “self-appointed neighborhood watchman” became suspicious of a teen in his neighborhood, pursued him, confronted him, and shot and killed him. We also know that the teen was unarmed and that he hadn’t committed a crime, and all accounts so far say he had no criminal record.
OTOH, reports state that the “watchman” himself had been in trouble with the police.
Remember the story of Joe Horn, the man in Texas who shot and killed two men who’d just broken into his neighbor’s home? For the record, I was completely in support of what he did. But, this story is quite different. This teen hadn’t committed a crime. For all we know, he might’ve been afraid of the man following him. He himself might’ve been acting in self-defense. Whatever the case, he cannot tell us his side of the story now.
So far, reports say that he had no criminal record. But, Zimmerman was in trouble with the police a few years ago. See post #17.
Actually, we do not seem to know much at all about the “confronted” part.
We also do not know exactly what happened between the two.
The young black man ended up dead, so he is not telling us his side of the story.
The young Hispanic man called the police, and the police tell us that his story about self defense is completely consistent with the physical evidence.
Their histories suggest the possibility of aggression from each.
When confronted with conflicting stories, it is usually best to go with the physical evidence.
In fact, we do not even have conflicting stories here. We only have one side, and that is consistent with the physical evidence.
Does anyone think that it is out of the realm of possibility that Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman without legal justification?
Does anyone think that it is impossible that George Zimmerman provoked the attack?
I think we have to go with the physical evidence.
The only so-called eyewitnesses I’ve seen are a couple of women who allegedly heard the altercation- and one of them said it had to be the kid screaming because it stopped after the shot was fired. The family’s attorney claims it’s a young voice calling for help. I’m betting the kid is a troublemaker, but the media will ignore this and interview every person in that complex who doesn’t like Zimmerman. Do I think Zimmerman killed with malice of intent? Of course not. Zimmerman probably approached the kid and asked what he was up to. The kid gave him some lip, attacked him, there was a scuffle for the gun, Zimmerman won. 10 to 1 Zimmerman gets hit with major charges, though. His life, as he once knew it, is over.
Zimmerman has not criminal record either. He was arrested, and the charges were dropped. Given the propensity of the police to prosecute charges for "resisting arrest", which is what I read the charges to be, the fact that they were dropped seems more significant than the fact that he was arrested.
Indeed, we do not know. But, there's only one person who didn't survive this altercation. So far, according to all accounts, he'd just bought candy and iced tea at a convenience store - he hadn't robbed the store - he was just walking back from the store.
Then, this guy calls 911 claiming the teen looks suspicious. He doesn't say the teen committed a crime. He says it appears the teen is looking at houses, and he pursues him, even though he's told not to.
Their histories suggest the possibility of aggression from each.
I didn't see a report about the teen having a criminal record. Did you? Maybe more information will come out later. So far, only the "watchman" has been reported as getting into an incident with the police a few years ago.
I think we have to go with the physical evidence.
If the teen did fight with this man, how do we know the teen himself wasn't acting in self-defense? A trial might sort it all out.
I just read post 51 and it has a lot of information that was left out of the media report. The media should be forced out of business if this is what actually happened. They are creating racial tension with lies and omissions. That’s criminal.
No, I did not. I only saw a report about him being suspended from school. At 17, it is very hard to have a criminal record. If he got in trouble with police, those records are not public because he would be a juvenile.
His father refuses to say why he was suspended from school. Maybe he was suspended for drawing a picture of a gun. We do not know, and we are not being told.
Just out of curiosity, can you point me to an article that isn’t a “biased attempt to influence”?
I shouldn't laugh, but I just did. That was my first thought (jokingly), too, when I read that he'd been suspended.
Now that we have established what these MSM "news" articles are, the curiosity is why you are so willing to be managed so easily?
So, it makes no difference whether the article is at AP or Storm Front
We have no information regarding "demands", there is no evidence about anyone being "detained", and we don't know who put their hands on whom.
You do not have sufficient information to reasonably conclude these things. You do not know what interaction Zimmerman and Martin had with one another before it got physical, and you do not know what physical exchange they had before the shooting occurred.
We don't know, nor do we have reason to suspect, that Martin committed any crimes that night before his encounter with Zimmerman.
Apparently Zimmerman is claiming that Martin attacked him and that the shooting was self defense.
If Martin attacked Zimmerman then this was a crime.
I do not and I am disgusted by the number of people here on FR who are unable or unwilling to consider this possibility.
Then you're less self-aware than I gave you credit for.
One dumb post after another. I wonder why you bother.
This is what leftists do. Welcome to reality.
Have you listened to the recording of Zimmerman's 911 call in its entirety (unedited)?
I have not and I have seen no link where it is available.
If you are claiming to have listened to "the tapes" and you have not listened to Zimmerman's call in full then you are either a retard or else you are some sort of nasty lying commie.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you, personally, could recognize the voices of Mr. Zimmerman, Mr. Martin, the other assorted 911 callers, and that they were capable of identifying the voices of Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin, and that the tape was complete and unedited.
I also didn't realize that the family's conclusions, as reported by AP, are legally defined as evidence and have been judged admissible and found to be truth by a jury of Zimmerman's peers.
Unless Martin himself was acting in self-defense. It's possible that both of them believed they were acting in self-defense. If it would be acceptable for one person to shoot another in self-defense, then it should be acceptable to fight physically in self-defense.
Again, I don't know what happened, either. But, the above is another possibility.
You can listen to the 911 calls at the link WeatherGuy posted above. Here’s the link again:
I don’t know if the calls are complete, though, but there’s a lot of information there.
You are wasting your time. Rogue yam and NP are saying the tapes are fake
The race of the people involved has nothing to do with the case. But it does have a lot to do with how the MSM covers the case. And that has a lot to do with how liberals and conservatives see it - see the bias or favoritism. As an earlier poster mentioned - stories where a white person is the victim of blacks tend not to be covered. That's wrong.
I have a theory on this... Years ago most newspapers didn't cover the civil rights movement - didn't cover it when it was happening. There were papers in the South that just ignored the issue. Some papers didn't have one black writer - just like now there are papers that don't have one conservative writer.
The civil rights movement of the early 60's was as popular as the Tea Party Movement is today. And got just as much coverage. In other words - not much. I heard MLK give his "I have a Dream" speech in Chicago - 1964 - he had changed the speech from the one he had given in Washington a few months earlier and the speech was amazing. He took the one part about 'the dream' and expanded it to about a 90 minute speech. It was the most beautiful speech I've ever heard. People around me were crying as he spoke. I was crying too. The paper didn't do crap with it... and that was in the North. In the South, things of historical importance with civil rights would happen - and zip, nada - nothing in the papers. Ok, I'm getting off track here...
I think what's happened is so many 'journalists' missed the civil rights movement when it was happening, that they started jumping on any slight years later to prove their bonifides. Too late - they were jumping the shark. Some story about upper class black women and some tony country club - truth is, they should have been there when the civil rights movement really needed them - when the real stuff was happening - not years jumping on slights. Guilty consciences.... Not pretty.
So like most guilt ridden, they go overboard with one sided reporting in the other direction. And as is usually the case, the pendulum swings too far. The correct way ( if the MSM acted like adults rather than like members of a high school clique) would be to put in their Style Books ways that crime is dealt with - regardless of race.
In the sixties the MSM was worse to blacks - now they're worse to whites. It's stupid. Create a standard - "THIS" is covered - white, black, Asian... and this level of crime is NOT covered etc. Keep it consistent and they'd get some respect back. That might be too obvious for the elites of the MSM...
I was thinking that you were merely stupid, BF, but now it seems you're evil for sure.
I think you are totally over-analyzing things.
Here’s my theory: Leftists, including the leftist media, are irrational and dishonest and evil. They tell crazy lies because they hate the truth, they hate God, they hate Western Civilization, and they hate white people.
I really don’t think it is any more complicated than that. Genesis Chapter 2. There is good and evil in this world. Leftism is evil.
I don’t believe Zimmerman was a racist, just a gung-ho wanna- be- cop asshole that had no intelligence. Too much TV.
How is THAT admissible or credible evidence?... It’s called documentary evidence.
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