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How Will The Shocking Decline Of Christianity In America Affect The Future Of This Nation?
The American Dreamw ^ | 1-19-2012

Posted on 01/19/2012 7:18:48 AM PST by blam

How Will The Shocking Decline Of Christianity In America Affect The Future Of This Nation?

January 19,2012

Is Christianity in decline in America? When you examine the cold, hard numbers it is simply not possible to come to any other conclusion. Over the past few decades, the percentage of Christians in America has been steadily declining. This has especially been true among young people. As you will see later in this article, there has been a mass exodus of teens and young adults out of U.S. churches. In addition, what "Christianity" means to American Christians today is often far different from what "Christianity" meant to their parents and their grandparents.
Millions upon millions of Christians in the United States simply do not believe many of the fundamental principles of the Christian faith any longer. Without a doubt, America is becoming a less "Christian" nation. This has staggering implications for the future of this country. The United States was founded primarily by Christians that were seeking to escape religious persecution. For those early settlers, the Christian faith was the very center of their lives, and it deeply affected the laws that they made and the governmental structures that they established. So what is the future of America going to look like if we totally reject the principles that this nation was founded on?

Overall, Christianity is still the largest religion in the world by far. According to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, there are currently 2.2 billion Christians in the world. So Christianity is not in danger of disappearing any time soon. In fact, in some areas of the globe it is experiencing absolutely explosive growth.

But in the United States, things are different. Churches are shrinking, skepticism is growing and apathy about spiritual matters seems to be at an all-time high.

Before we examine the data, let me disclose that I am a Christian. I am not bashing Christians or the Christian faith at all in this article. In fact, I consider the decline of Christianity in America to be a very bad thing. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but hopefully this article will help spark a debate on the role of religion in America that everyone can learn something from.

Unfortunately, the reality is that most Americans spend very little time thinking about religion or spiritual matters these days.

Just consider the following quote from a recent USA Today article....

"The real dirty little secret of religiosity in America is that there are so many people for whom spiritual interest, thinking about ultimate questions, is minimal," says Mark Silk, professor of religion and public life at Trinity College" This is backed up by the numbers. For example, a survey taken last year by LifeWay Research found that 46 percent of all Americans never think about whether they will go to heaven or not.

To most Americans, faith is simply not a big deal. This is particularly true of our young people. Those under the age of 30 are leaving U.S. churches in droves. The following comes from a recent CNN article....

David Kinnaman, the 38-year-old president of the Barna Group, an evangelical research firm, is the latest to sound the alarm. In his new book, "You Lost Me: Why Young Christians Are Leaving Church and Rethinking Faith," he says that 18- to 29-year-olds have fallen down a "black hole" of church attendance. There is a 43% drop in Christian church attendance between the teen and early adult years, he says. But it isn't just young people that are leaving American churches. The proportion of Americans that consider themselves to be Christians has been steadily declining for many years. Back in 1990, 86 percent of all Americans considered themselves to be Christian. By 2008, that number had dropped to 76 percent.

Meanwhile, the number of Americans that reject religion entirely has absolutely soared. According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of Americans with "no religion" more than doubled between 1990 and 2008.

So what is going to happen if these trends continue?

Dave Olson, the director of church planting for the Evangelical Covenant Church, has made some really interesting projections regarding what is going to happen to church attendance in America if current trends continue.

According to Olson, only 18.7 percent of all Americans regularly attend church right now. If this number continues to decline at the current pace, Olson says that the percentage of Americans attending church in 2050 will be about half of what it is today.

Other research has produced similar results.

According to a study done by LifeWay Research, membership in Southern Baptist churches will fall nearly 50 percent by the year 2050 if current trends persist.

If you are a Christian, you should be quite alarmed by these numbers.

But what is happening to the faith of our young people should be even more alarming for Christians.

The American Religious Identification Survey by the Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society & Culture at Trinity College is one of the most comprehensive studies on religion in America that has ever been done.

According to that study, 15 percent of all Americans say that they have "no religion".

That is up from 8 percent in 1990.

That is quite a change.

But the move away from religion is particularly pronounced among our young people.

One recent survey found that 25 percent of all Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 say that they have no religion.

Obviously the Christian faith is not winning the battle for the hearts and the minds of our young people. The cold, hard truth is that in America today, the younger you are, the less likely you are to consider yourself to be a Christian.

Large numbers of young Americans that went to church while they were growing up are now leaving U.S. churches entirely. A recent study by the Barna Group discovered that nearly 60 percent of all Christians between the ages of 15 and 29 are no long actively involved in any church.

But not only have they left the church, our young people have also abandoned just about all forms of Christian spirituality.

Just check out the results of one survey of young adults that was conducted by LifeWay Christian Resources....

•65% rarely or never pray with others, and 38% almost never pray by themselves either.

•65% rarely or never attend worship services of any kind.

•67% don't read the Bible or any other religious texts on a regular basis.

If this does not get turned around, churches all over America will be closing their doors. When the survey above first came out, the president of LifeWay Christian Resources stated that "the Millennial generation will see churches closing as quickly as GM dealerships."

But it is not just church that our young people are rejecting.

The reality is that they are also rejecting the fundamental principles of the Christian faith.

One survey conducted by the Barna Group found that less than 1 percent of all Americans between the ages of 18 and 23 hold a Biblical worldview.

The Barna Group asked participants in the survey if they agreed with the following six statements....

1) Believing that absolute moral truth exists.
2) Believing that the Bible is completely accurate in all of the principles it teaches.
3) Believing that Satan is considered to be a real being or force, not merely symbolic.
4) Believing that a person cannot earn their way into Heaven by trying to be good or by doing good works.
5) Believing that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth.
6) Believing that God is the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the world who still rules the universe today.

Less than 1 percent of the participants agreed with all of those statements.

That is staggering.

But it is not just young adults that are rejecting the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

Even large numbers of "evangelical Christians" are rejecting the fundamental principles of the Christian faith.

For example, one survey found that 52 percent of all Americans Christians believe that "at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life".

Another survey found that 29 percent of all American Christians claim to have been in contact with the dead, 23 percent believe in astrology and 22 percent believe in reincarnation.

Without a doubt, the religious landscape of America is changing.

Over the past several decades, church attendance has been steadily declining, the percentage of Americans that consider themselves to be Christians has been going down, and the number of people that hold traditional Christian beliefs has been dropping like a rock.

So what does all of this mean for the future of America?


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atheism; atheists; christians; christophobia; faith; religion
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To: metmom

There is unity in Roman Catholicism and I will point fingers as I like.

“wikipedia”?...pulleeeze!?

Calling yourself “Catholic” and then dissenting from Rome is a human failing, not a failing of the Catholic faith.
We have established and written Dogma and a Catechism which explains our faith.


81 posted on 01/19/2012 2:46:31 PM PST by G Larry ("I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his Character.")
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To: wideawake
99% of the first generation of permanent American colonists were there for commerce, not theology.

You mean "cod and not God."

While there is truth in this, and offsets the idea that all the Founders and ppl were evangelical Christians, yet it is misleading and biased it is inferring that the founders and people same were a bunch of secularists who had little interest in the Christian faith. That America was distinctly Christian is abundantly evidenced, and was reflected in in government and education.

And which was the reason for the 1st Amendment, to assure freedom to be so after their particular faith, versus required submission to an official State religion, which is much the case now as a result of increased secularization, with its indoctrination of ethos which largely increasingly functions as religion.

There can never be the manner of antiseptic separation of religion from State the way strict separatists seem to demand as regards Christian faith, but as in the past, the government will reflect what people who elect them really believe in terms of commitment, though this is becoming more difficult.

May you have a God night

82 posted on 01/19/2012 2:57:13 PM PST by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: metmom

Hey metmom! I hope you are well!

We’re already screwed. Look at the erosion of this country over the past 10 years, the last 5...

It’s Biblical. Things aren’t going to get better.

The liberals have already won. Personally, I think the scale has tipped the other way now. There are now more voters that actually think they are due some sort of Michelle Obama pie, than there are actual sane people in this country.

The good news?

You already know the Good News!


83 posted on 01/19/2012 3:13:04 PM PST by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: asinclair
"I'll give you one example: a lot of people died in Salem at the hands of God-fearing people because of a mistranslation. According to the footnotes in the Bible provided to me by the Church of my youth, the phrase "suffer not a witch to live" is less than correct. According to that Bible, in the footnotes, the more accurate translation of the phrase is "suffer not a poisoner to live."

Well I don't what bible you are talking about but the word witch or sorceress in Ex 22:18 is an accurate translation. The word in question is the Hebrew "Kasap" and in context in the OT always means someone who practices supernatural powers. See: Deuteronomy 18:10 and 2 Chronicles 33:6. I would also note that less people were killed in the entire Salem incident than are murdered in Chicago on any given weekend. And Salem was an isolated affair, so Biblical communities have a much better track record than post-Christian contemporary America.

84 posted on 01/19/2012 3:18:38 PM PST by circlecity
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To: Zionist Conspirator
George Washington was a great man, but he did not create the universe. Seek out the True G-d, and you can't do that by merely seeking to share George Washington's religious beliefs.

Maybe the writer or the poster believes that the Founders -- whether the Puritans, or the Anglicans, or the Baptists and Methodists or the deists -- did believe in the one true religion. You may not agree but that doesn't necessarily mean that the view represented in the article is utilitarian or ethnocentric.

85 posted on 01/19/2012 3:36:47 PM PST by x
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To: daniel1212
The fact is that while most of the colonists were professing and believing Christians, the vast majority were not colonists because of religious motives, but economic.

And truth be told, the Pilgrims themselves were more motivated by a distaste for life in Holland than fear of persecution.

The evangelical vision of the colonists as a uniform squadron of zealous true believers is as ahistorical as the secularist view of the Founding Fathers as a crew of faithless radicals. Brewster and Jefferson were outliers, not representatives.

86 posted on 01/19/2012 3:42:22 PM PST by wideawake
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To: daniel1212

Which predominate Protestant Bibles versus which officially approved RC English Bible would do you compare them to?

a) Douay Confraternity, 1961 vs. KJV 1989
Does being the steward of Divine revelation mean that you are the assuredly infallible interpreters of it?

- Matt 16:18-19, “And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Iwill give your the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Does your implied protection against different interpretations include approve all the notes in your Bibles?

Yes, the notes are explanations which site other Biblical passages as the authority for that explanation.
Is true that within the parameters of Catholic teaching the RC have great liberty to interpret the Bible? No.

How do you know that Roman Catholic sources are not teaching contrary to official doctrine?

I validate them! The doctrine is written in such documents as the Catechism and “Fundamentals and Catholic Dogma”. Also, Papal Encyclicals. And, yes, I cross check.

It is also the purpose and function of the Imprimatur & Nihil Obstat, to assert that others, more qualified than I have reviewed the material, to protect against error.

What is the basis for your assurance that Rome has spoken infallibly? Matt 16:18-19

Can RCs have any disagreement on teachings that are not infallibly defined?

Evolution for instance. As long as we believe that it all started with God’s Creation.
Do these constitute the majority or the minority of what RCs believe and practice?

How can differences constitute a majority?
Are the Scriptures the supreme assuredly infallible authority for Catholics?

Yes.
What is the basis for the claim to be the One True Church in Catholicism, Roman or Orthodox?

Matt 16:18-19
Lk 22:32
Jn 21:17
Mk 16:7
Lk 24:34
Acts 1:13-26, 2:14, 2:41, 3:6-7, 5:1-11, 8:21, 10:44-46, 15:7, 15:19
Gal 2:11-14
Are there divisions within Catholicism on doctrinal issues?

No. Where there has been disagreement, it has been resolved.
Do divisions mean the basis for achieving spiritual unity is invalid?

If they existed in the teachings from Rome, your example of the circular firning squad would ensure someone being hit. But your question is absured on its face.
What jurisdiction does the assuredly infallible magisterium of Rome effectively exercise?

Infallibility applies only to ex-cathedra pronouncements on matters of faith and morals.
Do you think Sola Scriptura means only the Scriptures can be used in understanding what doctrinal truth is in the light of Scripture?

I thinkg Sola Scriptura is a crutch used to pretend that Tradition plays no role in faith and truth. It pretends that there was no Truth until a Canon was established some 400 years after Christ and that it somehow became more true after Luther edited it.
Do most Protestant denominations who hold to Scripture as being the wholly inspired literal Word of God as supreme (“evangelicals”) manifest a common consent to core teachings, while allowing varying degrees of dissent on other issues?

They only hold it is literal until they can’t explain clear Biblical text which supports the Catholic position they oppose.

“..common consent to core teachings while allowing varying degrees of dissent on other issues”. This usually means, as long as you preach John 3:16 and bash Catholics, we don’t much care what you believe.
Do the above typically have their own magisterium over their own flock?

“..common consent to core teachings..” You undermine your own position
Does evidence on evangelicals overall testify to a greater conservatism and unity in certain core doctrinal and moral truths and commitment than among Roman Catholics overall?

No! Who has been more steadfast in the Pro-life movement than the Roman Catholic Church. Do not pretend with me that squishy liberal politicians reflect the Church.
You are attempting to play off the failings of individuals against the teaching of Rome.
Do you really want to play the “Who has more sinners?” game, when addressing the Faith and Teachings which are well established?
How many of the above answers are a matter requiring interpretation, and what makes you correct over other Catholics who disagree with your answers here?

None.
Matt 16:18-19
Lk 22:32
Jn 21:17
Mk 16:7
Lk 24:34
Acts 1:13-26, 2:14, 2:41, 3:6-7, 5:1-11, 8:21, 10:44-46, 15:7, 15:19
Gal 2:11-14
The doctrine is written in such documents as the Catechism and “Fundamentals and Catholic Dogma”. Also, Papal Encyclicals. And, yes, I cross check.

It is also the purpose and function of the Imprimatur & Nihil Obstat, to assert that others, more qualified than I have reviewed the material, to protect against error.
Did you make a fallible or infallible interpretation when you first trusted the RC church to be perpetually, assuredly infallible (when speaking according to defined criteria)?

I don’t claim infallibility for myself, rather the sources cited above.
Do both Protestants and Catholics hold to a perpetual, assuredly infallible supreme authority on earth, but cannot claim assured infallibility in understanding them?

No, or there would be only one Protestant religion, which makes the subsequent set of negative variables an illogical question.
In Scripture, did formal decent of office assure perpetual authority? What was the real basis for authority for Christ and the apostles?

Christ is the Second Person of the Triune God and IS the Authority.
- Matt 16:18-19, “And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Iwill give your the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Do you suppose Christ’s authority presented in 16:18-19, was meant to end with the life of Peter or the other Apostles? How meaningless would that be?
In Scripture by what primary means did assurance of Truth and that men of God were such instrumentally come by?

Other than my citations in response to #18 and #21 above, I assume you refer to “By their fruits you shall know them”.


87 posted on 01/19/2012 3:54:10 PM PST by G Larry ("I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his Character.")
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To: brownsfan
I went to public school, I haven’t left the faith.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You were one of the lucky 15%.

When I see odds with 95% homeschoolers remaining faithful and only 15% of government schooled kids remaining faithful and both are from highly active evangelical homes....well....it definitely needs investigating.

As for conservatives abandoning the government schools, I doubt it. Nearly 85% of the nation's children are “schooled” in our nation's godless socialist K-12 system. Where's the abandonment? If conservatives were leaving the government schools far less than 85% of the nation's kids would be attending.

Are the nation's socialist schools any less godlessly secular humanist because all those conservative kids are attending? No. It just gets worse year by year.

Are the nation's socialist k-12 schools any less socialist because conservative kids attend or so-called conservatives and Christians work there? No. Socialism is socialism and the only alternative would be to make them private, but then they would be private and not socialist.

Simply by attending children risk learning that government and the voting mobs give them tuition-free schooling. Well? Why not use government and the voting mob to get lots of “free” socialist goodies. It only took one to three generations of socialist schooling to give the nation Franklin D. Roosevelt for four terms.

Finally, children who attend godlessly secular schools will learn to think and reason godlessly. They must just to cooperate in the classroom, read the text, and do assignments. How could it be otherwise?

Opening the very first socialist-entitlement school systems ( mid-1800s to early 1900s) was a catastrophe. Curriculum and teacher training has always been under progressive control. While at first they offered up a lukewarm and generic Protestantism, the push has always been toward complete godless secularism. By the way, you know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth.

Government socialist-entitlement schooling has **always** been an abomination.

Personally, I consider government schooling sooooooo evil and such a threat to our nation's freedom that I will NOT have a government teacher for a friend. They are too evil, too stupid, too much of a Useful Idiot, or are more committed to their paycheck than to their so-called “conservative” or “Christian” principles. Government teachers are hurting children every day that they cooperate with this evil system. I am done with them!

If conservatives and Christians **really** loved children they would do two things:

1) Work to see that every child in this nation has access to a non-Prussian style, **private***, conservative education that upholds Judeo/Christian values, and our nation's founding principles.

2) Work to see that every godless socialist-entitlement school in this nation is shut down and padlocked, and sold to the highest bidder. Many of them would make great nursing homes and rehab centers.

Vouchers, tax credits, and charters may help build the infrastructure needed, but the end goal must be complete separation of school and state on every level from pre-k to graduate school.

88 posted on 01/19/2012 3:58:47 PM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: circlecity

Douay Confraternity, 1961 vs. KJV 1989

1 Cor 10:16 - Eucharistic participation in the Body and Blood of Christ.

Catholics and a couple Protestant religions believe in the true presence in the Eucharist.

Most Protestant religions do not.


89 posted on 01/19/2012 4:01:19 PM PST by G Larry ("I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his Character.")
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To: wintertime
Opening the very first socialist-entitlement school systems ( mid-1800s to early 1900s) was a catastrophe. Curriculum and teacher training has always been under progressive control. While at first they offered up a lukewarm and generic Protestantism, the push has always been toward complete godless secularism. By the way, you know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth. Government socialist-entitlement schooling has **always** been an abomination.

Hear, hear! I could mega-ditto every post of yours regarding our godless indoctrination camps.

90 posted on 01/19/2012 4:06:57 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: daniel1212
versus required submission to an official State religion, which is much the case now as a result of increased secularization, with its indoctrination of ethos which largely increasingly functions as religion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Every government K-12 school in this nation is a temple of godless secular humanist indoctrination. If the child is to cooperate in the classroom he **must** think and reason godlessly. How could it be otherwise.

And...Some, here on Free Republic find it irritating that I use the words “all” and “every”. Well? ...If any one knows of a government owned and run K-12 school that is not godlessly secular ( by law) in its worldview, please send a link. (By the way,.... No one ever has.)

And...Every citizen pays for the government establishment of the religion of godless secular humanism. We pay through property taxes, rents, sales taxes, and indirectly through the higher prices on all goods by the taxes passed on to the consumer through business taxes.

All children whose parents can not ransom them ( jizya) from the government school are under the threat of armed police and court action to attend their godless secular humanist temple of indoctrination.

Recently, I made a decision. I will NOT have a government teacher for a friend. In my opinion, government schools are **that** evil, hurt children **that** much, and are **that** much of a threat to our nation continuing in freedom. Personally,...I am done with government teachers.

91 posted on 01/19/2012 4:17:28 PM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: brownsfan
Reality is that if you came out of the public education system reasonably intact, it wasn't because of them, it was in spite of them.

There but for the grace of God.........

But, you have your mind made up, public schools are evil, and produce nothing but godless morons. Don’t allow me to get in the way of your reality.

That is the reality of the public education system and it isn't getting any better. In some locales, the graduation rate is about half the student body and of those graduating, all it means is that they stuck it out, not that they were educated.

Considering the level of literacy I see in the product of the public education system, it's failing miserably and has been for decades.

Anyone who gets out reasonably intact needs to drop to their knees and thank God for protecting them through it all.

92 posted on 01/19/2012 4:24:26 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: asinclair; circlecity
I'll give you one example: a lot of people died in Salem at the hands of God-fearing people because of a mistranslation. According to the footnotes in the Bible provided to me by the Church of my youth, the phrase "suffer not a witch to live" is less than correct. According to that Bible, in the footnotes, the more accurate translation of the phrase is "suffer not a poisoner to live."

Witch burnings happened long before Salem and there was never any Scriptural justification for it. There is no where in Scripture that says burning at the stake is the way to deal with witches, not to mention that that was the OT Law, not the NT message of grace.

People didn't burn witches and others at the stake because of the Bible or religion, but because they were ignorant of it.

93 posted on 01/19/2012 4:29:49 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
It is amazing how few conservatives fail to understand that socialism and godless secular humanism can not be reformed. It must be abandoned. Completely!

Government schooling is evil! So?....What does that make those people who **willingly** seek a job in it, uphold it, and establish it every day?

By the way,....Should a Christian and conservative **willingly** train for and seek a job in an abortion center? Should they collect the money, answer the phones, sterilize the instruments, order the supplies, and hand the instruments to the abortionist? Should they do this and they say, “Well..I sneak in a little Christianity to the workers and the clients once in a awhile! And...Once or twice in my career, I did talk a woman out of an abortion!”

Well...Godless government schooling **forces** children to think and reason godlessly. These kids must just to be compliant in the classroom. How could it not be? Personally, I call that evil.

Personally, for myself, I will **NOT** have a government teacher for a friend any more than I would have someone who worked in an abortion center for a friend. One place aborts little bodies, the other attempts to abort souls.

94 posted on 01/19/2012 4:30:06 PM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: G Larry

Well, if you have problems with what wikipedia stated, perhaps you could actually address them instead of just expressing derision over the source.

Do those rites and sects not exist within Catholicism?

Were they made up just to make Catholicism look bad?

What about the link to the FR post? You didn’t address that and that certainly is not wiki.

Are you familiar with ALL the sects and rites within Catholicism?


95 posted on 01/19/2012 4:35:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: tpanther

HEY!!! yourself.

Long time no see.

I’m doing fine. The diet of oats and chicken has done wonders for my cholesterol. I should live forever in this state of health. Like I’d want to on this diet.

I’ve talked to a lot of people and not one of them has a good feeling about how this year is going to fall out. The feeling is that a lot of end times scenarios are going to fall together and it’s going to go from bad to worse in fairly short order.

The good news is The Good News. Maybe all the bad news will make more people receptive to the Good News.

The fields are white for the harvest.


96 posted on 01/19/2012 4:40:00 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: brownsfan; metmom
and produce nothing but godless morons.

This is a strawman, a debating tactic used frequently by liberal/Marxists and government school defenders. Metmom said absolutely ***NOTHING ***of the kind! How can anyone defend a strawman of your creation?

But, you have your mind made up, public schools are evil,

What school did you attend that taught you to how to read metmom's heart and mind? Hm?

But...I will make eminently clear for you regarding **my** personal opinion of the government schools. It is evil to force children into indoctrination centers where just to cooperate with the godless classroom and godless curriculum they must think and reason godlessly. How could it be otherwise? It is evil for government to force citizens to pay for this abominable establishment of godless secular humanism.

Personally I consider it **evil** to force children ( all those whose parents can not pay the jizya to rescue them) into socialist schools where they risk learning to be comfortable with socialism! It is evil to force citizens to pay for the socialist conditioning of children.

Personally, I consider it sooooooo evil for the children, and such a threat to our nation's continuing freedom, that recently I have made a decision. I will NOT have a government teacher for a friend. I won't have people who work in abortion centers as friends either. In one case they abort little bodies. In the other case, they attempt to abort child's souls. Personally, I am DONE with government teachers. I feel that strongly about it.

So there! There will be no need for you to read my mind and heart or create strawman. I hope it is **clear** to you. That is my personal opinion about our nation's evil system of godless socialist schools.

97 posted on 01/19/2012 4:49:43 PM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: G Larry

Matt 16:18-19, “And I say to you, you are Peter (petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church,

http://biblos.com/matthew/16-18.htm

Petros - 4074 Petros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Petros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /petra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

“4074 (Petros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (petra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Petros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (petra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

************************************************************************************

petra - 4073 petra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Petros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (petra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

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A weakness of English is that both words are translated as *rock* but in the Greek the distinction between the types is clearly seen.

Peter is not the bedrock that the church is built on. That tile belongs to Jesus as stated here in other passages....

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Romans 9:33
as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

http://biblos.com/romans/9-33.htm

1 Peter 2:8
and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

http://biblos.com/1_peter/2-8.htm

Peter himself clearly identifies Jesus as the *petra* in his own epistle.


98 posted on 01/19/2012 5:00:44 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

This big rock little rock nonsense is rather pitiful and dated.
I was busy with post #87, you might want to look...

Matt 16:18-19 rejects your assertion and highlights your lack of understanding.

“And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Iwill give your the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

So, what do you suppose is meant when Christ says “And I say to you, you are Peter....etc.”? How many people was Christ speaking to at that moment?

Infallibility applies only to ex-cathedra pronouncements on matters of faith and morals.

As for “infallible successors”...
Do you suppose Christ’s authority presented in 16:18-19, was meant to end with the life of Peter or the other Apostles? How meaningless would that be?
As for your weak opinion regarding the meaning of Timothy and your alleged “silence” regarding Peter’s authority, try these on for size:
Mt 16:18-19
Lk 22:32
Jn 21:17
Mk 16:7
Lk 24:34
Acts 1:13-26, 2:14, 2:41, 3:6-7, 5:1-11, 8:21, 10:44-46, 15:7, 15:19
Gal 2:11-14
Peter’s name ALWAYS heads the list of Apostles and occurs 195 times, more than all of the rest put together.
...off to teach Catholic Apologetics class tonight....


99 posted on 01/19/2012 5:08:19 PM PST by G Larry ("I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his Character.")
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To: G Larry; circlecity

The OT law very clearly prohibits the eating of blood because the life is in the blood.

Jesus could NOT have drank of the cup of the new covenant if it had indeed turned into His blood because He then would have not been sinless, the perfect sacrifice.

Nor could He have remained guiltless if He had changed the wine into blood and demanded that the disciples drink it.

Peter himself in Acts said that he had never eaten anything unclean. That would include the Passover meal where Jesus instituted communion. If he had thought that cup contained blood, he would have not drank it as an observant Jew celebrating the passover.

Nor is God going to command anyone to break a Law He Himself established.

The cup is wine and the bread is wheat a symbolic representation of His body and blood.


100 posted on 01/19/2012 5:24:02 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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