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How Will The Shocking Decline Of Christianity In America Affect The Future Of This Nation?
The American Dreamw ^ | 1-19-2012

Posted on 01/19/2012 7:18:48 AM PST by blam

How Will The Shocking Decline Of Christianity In America Affect The Future Of This Nation?

January 19,2012

Is Christianity in decline in America? When you examine the cold, hard numbers it is simply not possible to come to any other conclusion. Over the past few decades, the percentage of Christians in America has been steadily declining. This has especially been true among young people. As you will see later in this article, there has been a mass exodus of teens and young adults out of U.S. churches. In addition, what "Christianity" means to American Christians today is often far different from what "Christianity" meant to their parents and their grandparents.
Millions upon millions of Christians in the United States simply do not believe many of the fundamental principles of the Christian faith any longer. Without a doubt, America is becoming a less "Christian" nation. This has staggering implications for the future of this country. The United States was founded primarily by Christians that were seeking to escape religious persecution. For those early settlers, the Christian faith was the very center of their lives, and it deeply affected the laws that they made and the governmental structures that they established. So what is the future of America going to look like if we totally reject the principles that this nation was founded on?

Overall, Christianity is still the largest religion in the world by far. According to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, there are currently 2.2 billion Christians in the world. So Christianity is not in danger of disappearing any time soon. In fact, in some areas of the globe it is experiencing absolutely explosive growth.

But in the United States, things are different. Churches are shrinking, skepticism is growing and apathy about spiritual matters seems to be at an all-time high.

Before we examine the data, let me disclose that I am a Christian. I am not bashing Christians or the Christian faith at all in this article. In fact, I consider the decline of Christianity in America to be a very bad thing. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but hopefully this article will help spark a debate on the role of religion in America that everyone can learn something from.

Unfortunately, the reality is that most Americans spend very little time thinking about religion or spiritual matters these days.

Just consider the following quote from a recent USA Today article....

"The real dirty little secret of religiosity in America is that there are so many people for whom spiritual interest, thinking about ultimate questions, is minimal," says Mark Silk, professor of religion and public life at Trinity College" This is backed up by the numbers. For example, a survey taken last year by LifeWay Research found that 46 percent of all Americans never think about whether they will go to heaven or not.

To most Americans, faith is simply not a big deal. This is particularly true of our young people. Those under the age of 30 are leaving U.S. churches in droves. The following comes from a recent CNN article....

David Kinnaman, the 38-year-old president of the Barna Group, an evangelical research firm, is the latest to sound the alarm. In his new book, "You Lost Me: Why Young Christians Are Leaving Church and Rethinking Faith," he says that 18- to 29-year-olds have fallen down a "black hole" of church attendance. There is a 43% drop in Christian church attendance between the teen and early adult years, he says. But it isn't just young people that are leaving American churches. The proportion of Americans that consider themselves to be Christians has been steadily declining for many years. Back in 1990, 86 percent of all Americans considered themselves to be Christian. By 2008, that number had dropped to 76 percent.

Meanwhile, the number of Americans that reject religion entirely has absolutely soared. According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of Americans with "no religion" more than doubled between 1990 and 2008.

So what is going to happen if these trends continue?

Dave Olson, the director of church planting for the Evangelical Covenant Church, has made some really interesting projections regarding what is going to happen to church attendance in America if current trends continue.

According to Olson, only 18.7 percent of all Americans regularly attend church right now. If this number continues to decline at the current pace, Olson says that the percentage of Americans attending church in 2050 will be about half of what it is today.

Other research has produced similar results.

According to a study done by LifeWay Research, membership in Southern Baptist churches will fall nearly 50 percent by the year 2050 if current trends persist.

If you are a Christian, you should be quite alarmed by these numbers.

But what is happening to the faith of our young people should be even more alarming for Christians.

The American Religious Identification Survey by the Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society & Culture at Trinity College is one of the most comprehensive studies on religion in America that has ever been done.

According to that study, 15 percent of all Americans say that they have "no religion".

That is up from 8 percent in 1990.

That is quite a change.

But the move away from religion is particularly pronounced among our young people.

One recent survey found that 25 percent of all Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 say that they have no religion.

Obviously the Christian faith is not winning the battle for the hearts and the minds of our young people. The cold, hard truth is that in America today, the younger you are, the less likely you are to consider yourself to be a Christian.

Large numbers of young Americans that went to church while they were growing up are now leaving U.S. churches entirely. A recent study by the Barna Group discovered that nearly 60 percent of all Christians between the ages of 15 and 29 are no long actively involved in any church.

But not only have they left the church, our young people have also abandoned just about all forms of Christian spirituality.

Just check out the results of one survey of young adults that was conducted by LifeWay Christian Resources....

•65% rarely or never pray with others, and 38% almost never pray by themselves either.

•65% rarely or never attend worship services of any kind.

•67% don't read the Bible or any other religious texts on a regular basis.

If this does not get turned around, churches all over America will be closing their doors. When the survey above first came out, the president of LifeWay Christian Resources stated that "the Millennial generation will see churches closing as quickly as GM dealerships."

But it is not just church that our young people are rejecting.

The reality is that they are also rejecting the fundamental principles of the Christian faith.

One survey conducted by the Barna Group found that less than 1 percent of all Americans between the ages of 18 and 23 hold a Biblical worldview.

The Barna Group asked participants in the survey if they agreed with the following six statements....

1) Believing that absolute moral truth exists.
2) Believing that the Bible is completely accurate in all of the principles it teaches.
3) Believing that Satan is considered to be a real being or force, not merely symbolic.
4) Believing that a person cannot earn their way into Heaven by trying to be good or by doing good works.
5) Believing that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth.
6) Believing that God is the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the world who still rules the universe today.

Less than 1 percent of the participants agreed with all of those statements.

That is staggering.

But it is not just young adults that are rejecting the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

Even large numbers of "evangelical Christians" are rejecting the fundamental principles of the Christian faith.

For example, one survey found that 52 percent of all Americans Christians believe that "at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life".

Another survey found that 29 percent of all American Christians claim to have been in contact with the dead, 23 percent believe in astrology and 22 percent believe in reincarnation.

Without a doubt, the religious landscape of America is changing.

Over the past several decades, church attendance has been steadily declining, the percentage of Americans that consider themselves to be Christians has been going down, and the number of people that hold traditional Christian beliefs has been dropping like a rock.

So what does all of this mean for the future of America?

TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atheism; atheists; christians; christophobia; faith; religion
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To: daniel1212

This passage is in perfect context and stands on its own.

Your refusal to acknowledge same is out of fear of losing the “protest”, which is why you go to such great lengths to obfuscate the subject.
Name calling and citing “obvious larger context” dribble is pure smoke.

151 posted on 01/22/2012 6:48:19 PM PST by G Larry (We need Bare Knuckles Newt to fight this battle.)
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To: smvoice

You continue to avoid the obvious conclusion of your position:
You go to great lengths to pretend that Christ left us with no earthly authority to preserve his Gospel and his Church on earth. This passage at the moment it is delivered makes clear that Peter and his successors are protected from error by the Holy Spirit.
The only alternative is for you to project that same gift to each of us.
We see the fruits of that concept in the proliferation of Protestant denominations, in the aftermath of Luther’s interference.

This doesn’t mean Peter can’t make math errors or have self doubt.
This is with regard to judgement on matters of faith and morals.
Now, go back and respond to the question presented above.

152 posted on 01/22/2012 6:55:09 PM PST by G Larry (We need Bare Knuckles Newt to fight this battle.)
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To: G Larry; daniel1212; metmom; CynicalBear; caww; GiovannaNicoletta; presently no screen name; ...
This is your answer to Acts 10? After Jesus Christ gave Peter and the 11 the Great Commission to preach the gospel to all the nations? And as far along as Acts 10, Peter STILL said it was unlawful for a Jew to keep company or come unto on of another nation, you would dismiss this as "self doubt" or "math errors" (whatever THAT is supposed to mean). On matters of faith and morals...And you contend that I am avoiding the obvious conclusion of my position?

It's called reading God's Word as it is STATED. NOT reading something into it that isn't THERE. And projecting a predetermined meaning in order to make it fit the RCC teachings and doctrines.

I gave you NOTHING that was not presented CLEARLY in God's Word. You gave me NOTHING that WAS presented in God's Word. Acts 10 would give you a clear understanding of what was happening at that time. But you seem more eager to dismiss it in favor of Rome's interpretation. Which, by the way, can in NO WAY be reconciled with Acts 10. And Peter. So sweep it under the rug, forget it exists and take up another cause to "keep the lunies on the path", as Pink Floyd sang.

The "Shocking Decline Of Christianity in America" is because the gospel of your salvation has been replaced with works, and wafers and deceitfull doctrines of devils. But it FEELS so good to THINK God is impressed with man's endeavors to work their way to Him. It's called "The way of Cain" in Jude 11. From Genesis to today, it's still what man decides God wants from him. Man working to present his offering to God, instead of the offering God demands.

You want to know what the future of this nation is? Read the Bible. God tells you in His Word.

153 posted on 01/22/2012 7:46:54 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice
"So sweep it under the rug, forget it exists and take up another cause..."

Proverbs 9:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

154 posted on 01/22/2012 8:48:46 PM PST by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: smvoice

THIS is my answer to your misguided conclusion from Acts 10.

Christ meant precisely what is written here:
Matt 16:18-19
“And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

155 posted on 01/23/2012 5:08:09 AM PST by G Larry (We need Bare Knuckles Newt to fight this battle.)
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To: smvoice

You continue to avoid the obvious conclusion of your position:
You go to great lengths to pretend that Christ left us with no earthly authority to preserve his Gospel and his Church on earth. This passage at the moment it is delivered makes clear that Peter and his successors are protected from error by the Holy Spirit.
The only alternative is for you to project that same gift to each of us.

156 posted on 01/23/2012 5:15:59 AM PST by G Larry (We need Bare Knuckles Newt to fight this battle.)
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To: G Larry; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name

Do you believe condescension and volume make you seem authoritative?

When you defend a church which arrogates to itself the claim of supremacy and universal jurisdiction then you should not complain when the warrant for such is examined and impugned when found wanting, despite their church's own prolixity, and the foundational presuppositions behind your assertions warrant more than a cursory examination, despite the unwillingness of Roman Catholic apologists to allow themselves to see superficiality of their claims, and even though such RCs often basically ignore what refutes them and continue to argue by assertion, after the autocratic premise of their object of devotion. And as you have done so here I will reiterate and expand upon some of what I said. For Paul, “as his manner was,” “reasoned out of the Scriptures” (Acts 17:20) and we are to search out a matter and be like the noble Bereans. (Act 17:11)

In contrast, for you Rome's say so on such matters is to be sufficient, for as one of your own says, “He is as sure of a truth when declared by the Catholic Church as he would be if he saw Jesus Christ standing before him and heard Him declaring it with His Own Divine lips,” (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 );] and “the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors.” Pope Pius X, VEHEMENTER NOS, Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means")

But of course, as shown, there is still significant personal interpretation involved in this.

Nah...Protestant Bibles contain more than 5% error, compared to the Catholic Bible they watered down.
“First, the NKJV seems to be what you are referring to,..”

NO! I meant KJV, because that is exactly what World Publishing wrote, so take it up with them.

I find your statement from one unreferenced study to be rather meaningless without a comparison with the current official Roman Catholic Bible today, the greater problems of which you ignored, as well as its approved notes, while the old version which few Roman Catholics use which you chose to compare it with is criticized by weightier Roman Catholics than G. Larry, which source was also supplied by link.

Christ meant precisely what is written here:Matt 16:18-19
Your “argument” is simply an assertion, while you ignored the reality that the interpretation that this refers to Peter uniquely being the infallible Rock is only one interpretation, finding disagreement even among CFs, and that the real basis for this verse having any authority for that position is that Rome has infallibly declared that she is infallible, and uses this in support.

And which does not necessarily amount to a formal exegesis of it according to one of your own:

Catholic apologist Patrick Madrid: the dogma being defined here is Peter´s primacy and authority over the Church, not a formal exegesis of Matthew 16. The passages from Matthew 16 and John 21 are given as reasons for defining the doctrine, but they are not themselves the subject of the definition. As anyone familiar with the dogma of papal infallibility knows, the reasons given in a dogmatic definition are not themselves considered infallible; only the result of the deliberations is protected from error. It´s always possible that while the doctrine defined is indeed infallible, some of the proofs adduced for it end up being incorrect. Patrick Madrid, Pope Fiction (San Diego: Basilica Press, 1999), p. 254.

You go to great lengths to pretend that Christ left us with no earthly authority to preserve his Gospel and his Church on earth. This passage at the moment it is delivered makes clear that Peter and his successors are protected from error by the Holy Spirit.
Clear? Even the context in which this is supposedly exercised is a manner of interpretation, and your EO friends reject the aspect of the unique Petrine prerogative. That assured, formulaic perpetual infallibility is what Rome goes to great lengths to extrapolate from such texts in her eisegesis is what is clear, and shows ignorance of how God preserved truth and under what context the claim to authenticity and the exercise of power is valid.

While Rome pretends that such promises support her magisterium, examining all the verses invoked for this in the light of the rest of Scripture does not evidence, as was shown, that Peter was uniquely the rock upon which the church is built — but that this refers to Peter's Divinely revealed confession of who Christ was, and thus to Christ Himself, “the Rock of this faith confessed by St Peter,” as your CCC even allows — while binding and loosing are manifest to reference apostolic powers Rome only wishes she really evidenced (thus the instruments of the Inquisitions would have been all spiritual, and the Last Rites would be associated with healing, and not death), as well as to rulings which rested upon Scriptural warrant and substantiation, (Acts 5:1-10; 13:9, 1Cor. 5:4,5; Ja. 5:14-16; Acts 15:7-20; Gen. 34:2,27; 35:2; Ex. 20:3-5; Gen. 9:4; Lev. 3:17; Rm. 15:8-12,19; Num. 23:19 Amos 9:11-12) and not after the autocratic means of Rome and its premise of perpetual assured formulaic infallibility.

In addition, Rome argues her conclusion upon the premise that an AIM is necessary to preserve Truth. However, what Scripture manifests is that God never needed a perpetual assuredly infallible magisterium of men to preserve His truth, and which does indeed lead to autocratic presumption (as seen in cults, and Rome infallibly defining herself to be infallible, and thus all “proofs,” if needed), but instead He often raised up men from without the formal magisterium to reprove it, as Christ did to those who presumed to teach for doctrines things which were merely the “tradition of the elders.” (Mk. 7:3-13) And as John the Baptist and the Lord Himself had no claim to sit in the seat of Moses, so their authority was challenged by the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders. (Mk. 11:28-33) But the claims of Christ were established by Scripture and the manner of attestation it affirms being given to the Truth. And thus the church began in dissent from those who supposed perpetual power based upon formal decent.

In contrast, rather than leaving an earthly authority to preserve his Gospel and his Church on earth that would end up being like the one that was replaced, the Lord did not establish a perpetuated Petrine papacy through formal decent, but established the church of the Living God (not institutionalized God) upon faith, by which the just shall live, this being demonstrable Scriptural faith in Him as the Divine Son of God, the Rock, “a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He.” (Dt. 32:4b) to save them by His sinless shed blood. (Rm. 3:25) By this faith the church exists and by this faith the one body has its members, (1Cor. 12:13) and overcomes, (1Jn. 5:5) attacking the gates of Hell which shall not withstand it. (Mt. 16:18) And upon which faith authenticity rests, like that of a true Jew, not by formal decent, (Rm. 2:28,29) Though such are to ordain others who have this faith, it is by their Scriptural testimony that authenticity rests, but not as defined by autocratic determination.

This does not mean the church must cease to exist even when it presumes powers it is not given and binds what is not to be bound (including freedom of access to the Bible and men of God who loved it) and loosing that which should be bound (including means of the Inquisitions and certain teachings), nor when it fails in organizational unity or in teaching outside core salvific truths, for as the Church began upon the most essential faith in the Lord Jesus to save them, not their church or own merits, but out of a broken heart and contrite spirit, (Ps. 34:18; Acts 2:37; 16:14, 30) so as long as core salvific truths are preserved by which men may see themselves as damned for their sins and destitute of any means by which they may justify themselves, and so call upon the Lord Jesus to save them by his blood, then souls may yet be added to the body of Christ and the Church may continue, even when its Godliness, and faith is largely external in structure and form.

Yet those who promote salvation by confidence is their own virtues and the power of their church and who presume assured infallibility and perpetuation prophesy their own invalidation, and as God can raise up from stones children of Abraham, (Mt. 3:9) so He can raise up stones who have the essential faith of Peter to continue to build his Church, even if they are not sanctioned by those who presumed perpetuity based upon formal dissent and autocratic presumption.

The only alternative is for you to project that same gift to each of us. Individually.

Your premise is false, as is your argument. Those who hold to Sola Scriptura do not presume assured infallibility; rather they put their faith in the Scriptures as being assuredly infallible and can only seek to persuade souls “by the manifestation of the truth,” which the apostles most supremely did . (2Cor. 4:2) Even those who were the writers of holy writ did not presume to have assured formulaic infallibility, as if they would always be infallible whenever they spoken on faith and morals to the whole nation or church. One may speak infallible truth even if he is a donkey, but this does not assure that he will be infallible whenever he speaks according to a certain scope and subject-based criteria.

Nor is assurance promised in Scripture based upon the promise of an assuredly infallible perpetual magisterium. Rather authenticity and assurance is established conformity with the Scriptures and its means of attestation, (1Jn. 5:13) and to which the Lord in his apostles appealed, as has been shown.

We see the fruits of that concept in the proliferation of Protestant denominations, in the aftermath of Luther’s interference.

And as has been shown the divisions in each is only a matter of degrees. And you cannot compare Roman Catholicism with Protestantism, as the former is one entity among other Catholic churches and the latter is many. But you can compare different models for achieving unity. As both have their problems, the question is, which one is Scriptural?

The Roman Catholic model is one in which souls make a of fallible human decision to trust in a assuredly infallible magisterium, which is effectively superior to Scripture, and to which implicit assent is to be rendered, and which justifies itself based upon tradition and history. Under this model, the greatest prevention of dissent based upon interpretation and the greatest degree of unity made be seen, and therefore cults, which basically operate under the same magisterial model, can boast of the greatest degree of unity.

However, while Rome has its Supreme magisterium and infallible statements which require the highest degree of submission of faith, yet discerning which statements are infallible and which was are not, and and at least some of what they mean, still involves some degree of interpretation. Also, infallible pronouncements arguably do not consist of the majority of what Catholics believe and practice, which area allows and requires more interpretation.

Therefore, while Roman Catholics look to an assuredly infallible magisterium and its pronouncements, they have made a fallible choice to do so, and must use fallible human reasoning in deciding which ones are infallible, and at least some of what they mean, as well as much of the other teachings of Rome. In reality, while Catholics subscribe to a certain set of core beliefs, allowable and disallowable disagreements within Rome are substantial even if they do not result in many formal divisions.

Furthermore, the basis for Rome's claim is derived from Scripture, Tradition and history, yet under this basis we still see still many divisions between Catholic churches who like Rome claim an assuredly infallible magisterium based upon Scripture, Tradition and history.

Under Sola Scriptura, souls also make a human decision to trust in an assuredly infallible authority, that being the Divinely established Scriptures, and also must exercise fallible human reasoning, if prayerfully, in understanding what it means. And under which there usually is a denominational magisterium, which again, is effectively all that Rome has herself. However, even without a central magisterium, they overall subscribe and manifestly contend for a limited set of core beliefs, outside of which one is rendered a heretic, yet outside of which allowable and disallowable disagreements are substantial and even result in many formal divisions (although evangelicals manifest a remarkable degree of spiritual unity in manifold ways which transcends denominations.)

Finally, the quality if not quantity, of the unity based upon implicit assent to an assuredly infallible magisterium can hardly be said to be superior to the unity attained by the Berean hearts and method, even if relatively rare.

Therefore as said, division is only about degrees, with any superiority of Rome's model being that of organizational unity, which any single denomination can compete with, while exhibiting essential spiritual unity across the lines and evidencing more fruits of regeneration, as they preached not themselves but Christ Jesus the Lord.

157 posted on 01/23/2012 7:59:36 AM PST by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: G Larry

God’s grace on the USA is about true freedom

True Freedom is only found when we are slaves to Christ.

We now have the freedom in the Spirit to resist sin and its condemnation.

Freedom is found only in a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ by His grace not our works.

This is a protestant truth and not catholic obviously.

Vatican, LDS, Mormons, and Islam are all cults.

Most protestant denominations today, like my LCMS, are also cults.

The old wineskin of religious denominations has been replaced with the new wineskin of personal intimate individual relationship.

These truths are why God established the USA.

They are is also why the USA must be gone for the NWO to take place

It is also why the rapture is important because the mystery of the age of grace in the true church established through the land of Grace the USA, is the only thing stopping the NWO.

IMHO Our Lord Jesus Christ will protect His bride.

Tidal waves, WW3, disclosure, etc happen after the rapture.

It is going to be so intense that no planning to survive it will be possible especially in this hemisphere.

158 posted on 01/23/2012 8:35:08 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: G Larry

The text is in isolation from its context which is about the church as the body, and does not stand alone by which not discerning the body is made to refer to the nature of what is being eaten.

Even your own official NAB notes, while not denying transubstantiation, recognizes that not discerning the body is really about the manner or spirt in which this communion is to sppsd take place,

“If the Corinthians eat and drink unworthily, i.e., without having grasped and internalized the meaning of his death for them, they will have to answer for the body and blood, i.e., will be guilty of a sin against the Lord himself (cf. 1 Cor 8:12).

* [11:28] Examine himself: the Greek word is similar to that for “approved” in 1 Cor 11:19, which means “having been tested and found true.” The self-testing required for proper eating involves discerning the body (1 Cor 11:29), which, from the context, must mean understanding the sense of Jesus’ death (1 Cor 11:26), perceiving the imperative to unity that follows from the fact that Jesus gives himself to all and requires us to repeat his sacrifice in the same spirit (1 Cor 11:18–25).” (

Even if one believes in transubstantiation, the focus here is to be properly placed on the above, treating other members with the care they give to the host, while again, the context shows that “not discerning the Lord’s body” has nothing to do with not recognizing the composition of the elements, but refers to their failure to recognize other members for whom Christ died as being members, contrary to being in communion/fellowship with the body and blood of Christ which was given for the very ones they were neglecting while supposedly commemorating it!

I gladly allow the reader to examine my exegesis and judge what is warranted.

159 posted on 01/23/2012 8:53:04 AM PST by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: daniel1212

Good post once again Daniel...information valuable as always. Thanks for taking the time and effort you do to set the record straight as you do. Always good reads and we learn more and more.

160 posted on 01/23/2012 9:18:19 AM PST by caww
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To: caww

Thanks be to God.

161 posted on 01/23/2012 6:00:27 PM PST by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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To: blam
Lots of stats on that:

REVEALING STATISTICS (or, Present Costs of the War Against God)

162 posted on 04/02/2012 4:22:21 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: G Larry
Christ meant precisely what is written here: Matt 16:18-19 “And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Moses changed his successor's name to Yah'shua when he changed it from Hoshea.

Numbers 13:16 When Moses changed Hoshea(salvation) Name
to Yah'shua(Joshua = YHvH is my salvation) or Jesus in English.

I published this study on FreeRepublic about the "Rock" over eight years ago.

Do the writings of the "church fathers" trump or impugn the Holy Word of G-d ?

Matthew. 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church,

One method of Hermeneutical understanding of Matthew 16:18
is to do a word study of all the scriptures which were then known
as the Holy Word of G-d when Yah'shua spoke these words.

This will allow one to understand that all of the Holy Word of G-d
was inspired by YHvH; the whole counsel of G-d.

The only conclusion that one can come to unless you are
predisposed to believe in man's tradition over the Holy Word of G-d
is that Yah'shua was speaking of himself as the "Rock "

Genesis 49:24 But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed
[Or archers will attack...will shoot...will remain...will stay] supple,
because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,

Deuteronomy 32:3 I will proclaim the name of YHvH. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock , his works are perfect, and all his ways are
just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

Deuteronomy 32:15 ..... He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Saviour.

Deuteronomy 32:30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten
thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless
YHvH had given them up?

Deuteronomy 32:31 For their rock is not like our Rock , as even our enemies concede

Deuteronomy 32:32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness.

1 Samuel 2:2 "There is no-one holy [Or no Holy One] like YHvH;
there is no-one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2 He said: "YHvH is my Rock , my fortress and my deliverer;

2 Samuel 22:3 my God is my Rock , in whom I take refuge, my shield and the
horn [Horn here symbolises strength.] of my salvation.
He is my stronghold, my refuge and my saviour — from violent men you save me.

2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God besides YHvH? And who is the Rock except our God?

2 Samuel 22:47 "YHvH lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God, the Rock , my Saviour!

2 Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me:
'When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,

Psalm 18:31 For who is God besides YHvH? And who is the Rock except our God?

Psalm 18:46 YHvH lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God my Saviour!

Psalm 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 42:9 I say to God my Rock , "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

Psalm 78:35 They remembered that God was their Rock , that God Most High was their Redeemer.

Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Saviour.'

Psalm 92:15 ..... "YHvH is upright; he is my Rock , and there is no wickedness in him."

Psalm 95:1 Come, let us sing for joy to YHvH; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

Psalm 144:1 Praise be to YHvH my Rock , who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

Habakkuk 1:12 Oh YHvH, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy
One, we will not die. Oh YHvH, you have appointed them to
execute judgment; O Rock , you have ordained them to punish.

Peter himself refers to Yah'shua as the "rock" in
1 Peter 2:1-10
NAsbU 1 Peter 2:
1 Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

3 if you have tasted the kindness of YHvH.

4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,

5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices
acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6 For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,

7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,

8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word,
and to this doom they were also appointed.

so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY,
but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

It is patently clear from the Holy Word of G-d
that the NAME "Rock" is a NAME that describes YHvH,
the creator of the universe.

To assign YHvH's NAME to a mere mortal,
a created being, seeks to impugn and
deny the Holy Word of G-d.

It also grieves the Holy Spirit.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

163 posted on 06/28/2012 8:57:54 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: metmom

Good question. I recommend that you purchase or download the book ‘The Harbinger’ on either your Kindle or Nook. It is not a long book, but riveting. In a semi-narrative form, it correlates the downfall of biblical Israel with contemporary post-9/11 America in a very compelling way. Am I allowed to recommend a produce, in this case as book, on our blog?

164 posted on 07/22/2012 6:00:44 PM PDT by ArmyTeach (Our liberties, we prize and our rights we will maintain ... USS Iowa BB 61)
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To: ArmyTeach

I am reading it now. I recommend it.

165 posted on 07/22/2012 6:13:44 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: blam; verga
Take your children out of the public school cesspools.

Why don't other conservatives share my urgency? Yes, indeed, GET THE CHILDREN OUT OF THE GODLESS GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS!

Yes, I am shouting!

85% of children from strongly evangelical families leave their faith within 2 years of graduating from their godless government high school.

In contrast, 95% of homeschoolers remain active in their faith 2 years after graduating.

Is a “duh” needed here. Conservatives! Please join me in the effort to CLOSE DOWN the government schools. Remove your children. Government schools are godless and have **NEVER** been religiously neutral. They have **always** been a socialist-entitlment. Neither can be reformed because it it intrinsic to the system. The government schools must be abolished!

166 posted on 07/22/2012 6:24:19 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: brownsfan

It’s the culture.

Who educated those who are masters of the culture?

167 posted on 07/22/2012 6:25:34 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: wintertime

I agree wholeheartedly with you!

It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise conservative people would support single payer, socialized schooling. Why would anyone turn their children over to bureaucrats to be educated?

We are up against a situation where people don’t want to give up having their lifestyles subsidized. Nobody wants to give up their own government handout. The socialized schooling industry is one of the nation’s biggest entitlement programs. It is bigger than Social Security.

We were discussing this at a party a month or so ago and two guys argued that they were paying dearly for the government schools, not getting a handout. I pointed out that one guy has 2 kids in the government schools and the other guy has 4 kids in the government schools. The schools in that town spend over $12 thousand dollars a year per pupil. I pointed out that neither man paid $12,000 a year in school tax, so other people were subsidizing their lifestyles by the difference between the amount of school tax they pay and the amount the government spends “educating” their kids. They weren’t happy to hear the truth and had no rational retort.

168 posted on 07/22/2012 7:12:14 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Steamburg

Public schools are only valid so long as the school reflects the moral values of the community.

Please think about this.

Why should Christians be forced to support government schools that are Muslim, atheist, or Mormon in their worldview simply because they are the Christian minority in their town or county? Hm?

Fundamentally, government schooling is socialist schooling and always has been. It has never been religiously neutral because a religiously neutral education is impossible. A voting mob of neighbors should never be in the position to **force** others support government schooling that is a socialist-entitlement and never was, or can be, religiously neutral.

169 posted on 07/22/2012 7:15:07 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: savagesusie
.....Prior to that QUOTES of the Bible were memorized by children. God and Our Lord and Jesus were IN THE CURRICULA....
....but we could stop it if everyone took control of their own children and grandchildren....

Re: Government schooling of the past

But....Even this was a lukewarm and generic Protestantism that nodded to God on occasion.

Fundamentally... Even in the best of times government socialist-entitlement schooling has never been more than lukewarm and generic in its religious worldview. What does Christ do with the lukewarm? He spits them out of His mouth!

Re: Putting a stop to it!

And...You are completely correct. Conservatives could stop this in an instant if they really wanted to do so. Personally, I think God will hold Christians far more culpable than the liberal atheists. Conservative Christians should know better. If they **really**really** really** wanted they could put a complete end to the following within the year:

1) Abortion
2) Remove their kids from the government socialist-entitlement schools and completely SHUT THEM DOWN, raze the buildings, dig up the foundations, and salt the earth upon which these godless cesspools of immorality stood.

170 posted on 07/22/2012 7:34:04 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: metmom; brownsfan
Education in public schools is by default secular and godless. They are taught to think that way.

Children **will** think and reason godlessly. They **must** just to cooperate in the godless classroom, read the godless textbooks, and do their godless homework. How could it be otherwise?

Given the time spent on the bus, in the company of other children, and the godless homework assignments, it adds up to nearly all of the child's waking day. Parents really have precious little time to undo the indoctrination.

If the parents really attempt to deprogram they might just as well homeschool. Deprogramming, if done correctly, is actually **more** work and **more** time consuming that just homeschooling correctly from the start.

171 posted on 07/22/2012 7:59:23 PM PDT by wintertime (:-))
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To: ArmyTeach

Thanks. I’ll look into it.

172 posted on 07/22/2012 9:13:41 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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