[gogogodzilla]

Why wouldn't you want to comply with the law? And what does this have to do with the fact that there are other ways to get people to do what one wants without physical force?

As an example, if I were a bank robber making his getaway, I wouldn't want to comply with the law... so without compelling force exerted against me, there would be no way to get me to comply with the law.

And there is simply no way other than brute force to *MAKE* someone do anything. And even then, it's not perfect in making someone do something.

You see it all the time at work. If, as a manager, you try to give a simple task to someone who doesn't want to do it... they oftentimes will not do it.

Why? Because you cannot *MAKE* them do it. Force will result in criminal charges against you and a lawsuit against the company.

Furthermore, as long as they don't show a trend of continually refusing your taskings, they won't get fired, either.

Whereas if you look at war, that is the most blatant example of how it truly takes brute force to make others who do not want to comply with your directives... comply with your directives.

The Taliban of Afghanistan did not want to turn over Osama Bin Laden to the US... and there was nothing we could do to *MAKE* them do it.

And even the brute application of force didn't to it. For ultimately, in the end, you can choose to die before compliance. It's the ultimate act of refusal (as well as the last act you can do).

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I'd also point out that nothing the British crown did could make our American colonists comply with British directives back in 1776. We had had enough.

And it took a war (brute force) for Britain to even *TRY* and make us comply.

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And if Greece felt as strongly about this issue, there would be nothing the EU could do about it *EXCEPT* use brute force.

That the Greeks do comply implies that they find compliance with EU directives to be more in their favor than outright refusal.

[Olog-hai]

Your argument is false and your examples are not parallel. Being shut out of the single market is a very real threat of force without the use of instruments of war. These bailout loans were resisted by all these countries, including Portugal and Ireland, until the pressure became too much. And perhaps you forgot about the Communist Party's role in causing unrest in Greece? and that it was the German government that proposed to bail out Greece in the first place? (with outrageous alternative suggestions such as selling some of their islands . . .)

If I wanted invalid arguments, I'd go to those liberal websites.