Who should MDs let die in a pandemic? Report offers answers

AP ^ | 05/04/08 | Lindsey Tanner

[TornadoAlley3]

CHICAGO – Doctors know some patients needing lifesaving care won't get it in a flu pandemic or other disaster. The gut-wrenching dilemma will be deciding who to let die. Now, an influential group of physicians has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated. They include the very elderly, seriously hurt trauma victims, severely burned patients and those with severe dementia.

The suggested list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services.

The proposed guidelines are designed to be a blueprint for hospitals “so that everybody will be thinking in the same way” when pandemic flu or another widespread health care disaster hits, said Dr. Asha Devereaux. She is a critical care specialist in San Diego and lead writer of the task force report.

[bert]

.....Pelosi is on fire,....

That would depend if she were still alive after the fire burned its self out.

[jurroppi1]

One Tami flu over the cuckoo’s nest?

[April Lexington]

Who do they let die? Simple.... Republicans.

[April Lexington]

Man. With $100 million in the bank, you’d think Al Gore could afford to get his teeth fixed!

[WVNan]

Hi Son of Marie. I loved the way you came to your Mom’s defense, and such a humorous way. You two obviously have a mutual admiration relationship going there. God bless you in every way and give you a long and blesed life.

[stevie_d_64]

If you reply in the affirmative (at least in the Chicago area) you will be saved...

If you say “no”, you will die...

/sarc, with a hint of “it would not surprise me”...

[MeanWestTexan]

Those without the cash to buy the Tamiflu from their doctor neighbor are on the list, no doubt.

Sucks, but that's capitalism.

[Niuhuru]

Hollywood people.

[Niuhuru]

“If they are most likely to survive, why waste scarce resources on them?”

You have a good point there. We leave the responsible and intelligent to fend for themselves, why not let the healthier ones help themselves(q)

[ziravan]

"Ironically, in the coming nationalized medical care system with its expected shortage of personnel, we'll likely see the same list of criteria applied sans any epidemic. There won't be enough trained medical personnel to treat all, so there will be choices as to who to treat."

I read a few years ago the the federal government anticipates and operates its pandemic planning on the idea that 10-20% of health care professionals will not show up for work during a crisis.

Anybody really believe that the number of health care professionals self-isolating and refusing to come to work will be that low?

My guess: 40-50%. We were talking about this at work last night. This was a common refrain: "They can fire me if they want, if it comes down to a choice between my job and infecting my children from something I got at work, my kids come first." If you don't think that hospitals need a plan for a 500% increase in patient load simultaneous to a 50% or greater reduction of staffing, you aren't being realistic.

I hear people complain about how heartless it is to conceive of a way to save the maximum number of lives possible in an emergency. To the contrary, NOT trying to save the maximum number of lives would be heartless.

It's always amazing that liberals describe my professional services as a "right" for somebody else. No. Only I have a "right" to decide where I will be at any given time, and that includes a pandemic. For the record, I will probably work because my ethics would demand it - not because the government, my employer or anybody else would claim the "right" to my services.

Timothy, Critical Care RN.

[Niuhuru]

“A young, pretty, affluent, blond haired and blue eyed Wellesley College graduate with shredded lungs will die”

So will most of Hollywood considering their ah, practices. So many of them are anorexic, bulimic, or their systems are soaked on drugs that they’ll be the first ones to go.

Then we take over.

[Niuhuru]

” I’m going to simply kidnap a doctor and keep him here at the house to take care of us until this is all over.”

That happened a lot during the Flu Pandemic of 1918-1919.

[Niuhuru]

“Don’t choose who will die or live that sounds like something the Nazi’s did when they decided that the Jews were not good enough..”

Why the Nazis were allowed to do this is beyond me. That whole situation is the only reason I question God from time to time.

[Niuhuru]

Do you know if Lucia is still alive(q) I remember reading that she is in a Vatcan convent under an order of silence by John Paul II.

[muawiyah]

Sorry, the ones who are anorexic or bulimic most likely have intensely clean colons and are probably naturally immune to flu.

[Niuhuru]

What gumption he has. How old is he(q)

[Niuhuru]

Drat.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Actually, a somewhat depressed immune system could be an advantage. The real damage to the Hollywood crowd will likely be because they have poor impulse control, lack common sense, and will try to maintain dangerous practices out of habit and arrogance.

An epidemic is a poor time to be egotistical, and think you are so important and beautiful that the disease can’t get you. A little humbleness can be a lifesaver.

[Salvation]

Sister Lucia's Last Moments
Sister Lucia's Beatification Process to Begin ( Pope Waves 5-Year Waiting Period)

[cycjec]

Years ago I hear Dr. Abraham Abraham, former head of a
hospital in Israel (Shaarei Tzedek) discuss this sort
of scenario. He related how he would not remove IIRC
a ventilator from one less health pt. (as I recall it)
and found older manual devices for the next one, lined
up staff and had them take turns. He also said “what
I fear is coming fills me with horror” (not quite an
exact quote) I should have expected this sort of softening
up article to appear right now.