Posted on 12/03/2008 11:43:31 PM PST by BP2
That's the whole crux of Donofrio's case, though. He says on his blog that a Hawaiian birth certificate would make no difference to his argument.
The passage you quote stood out for me, too, but for another reason.
What is the purpose of "Rule 22," or any rule for that matter, if the custom is to ignore it? And why ignore the rule just out of "respect" for another Justice, rather than on the merits of the case?
-PJ
They may be the only branch of government willing to tackle and resolve this issue, but they are not the only branch capable of doing so.
It only takes one member each from the Senate and the House to file a challenge to Obama's Natural Born Citizen qualifications for the Congress to initiate proceedings.
Will they do it as justices of the highest court in the land in an impartial manner or will they play politics with it?
The high court isn't given to playing politics with any issue. The individual Justices often have different interpretations about what the Constitution means, but they take their position as sole arbiters of that document very seriously.
I've bookmarked it too, and am going to spend some quality time there soon.
>>> "Which just proves the point about divided loyalty which the Founding Fathers were trying to make." <<<
I am crossing my fingers that the Supreme Court looks at this important issue through the lens of Original Intent.
It may not be codified to your satisfaction in US law, and I may have erred in stating it as such, but the fact is, that statement comports with the original intent of the Framers of the Constitution.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters_downloads.html
...the comma is in fact where others have claimed it's located on the original parchment.
See for yourself.
Hint: open the Constitution image that's the third one down, out of four images placed vertically, in the second section from the top of the page. Use the magnification function in the browser viewer. FYI: I'm using MS Vista.
Isn't the FReeper community grand? ;o)
See #173. A renunciation has to be voluntary, and can’t be made on someone else’s behalf, according to the State Department.
We disagree.
I interpret the meaning of the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" to indicate that a person is bound to a nation by birth, or naturalization of their citizenship.
That does not mean that such a person cannot be arrested for breaking our laws while in our country. Any recognized foreigner can be, and would be, in any foreign country, including America.
Why so angry at me for making that statement, even if I may have erred in doing so, if it's just a simple matter of legal definition?
I'll admit that I didn't consult case law, or search the Constitution for the exact definition I stated. However, I feel that my statement is in accord with the original intent of the Framers, regarding the required birth conditions for qualifications of a President.
It's my hope that the high court will shed some light and clarity on the precise interpretation of the Natural Born Citizen qualification in the Constitution. It's entirely reasonable to assume that they would choose to define it as I have, if they consult the reasoning and original intent of the Framers.
Well, wouldn't those old guys have a hoot if they could see us today poring over their words--and commas--on computer screens!
“For the gazillionth time... The Constitution requires that the President be a Natural born citizen, not just a citizen.”
As far as I know, this suit does not dispute that Obama was born in Hawaii, which in itself, in my opinion, would make him a natural born citizen.
Framer of the Fourteenth Amendments first section, John Bingham, said Sec. 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes meant “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.”
Fourteenth Amendment framer, Rep. John A. Bingham, argued before the House in 1871 that Dr. John Emilio Houard was a natural-born citizen of the United States. According to Bingham he was a natural-born citizen because he was “born of naturalized parents within the jurisdiction of the United States” by the “express words of the Constitution, as amended today.”
What does ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof” mean?
Both Sen. Trumbull and Sen. Howard provides the answer, with Trumbull declaring:
The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.
Sen. Trumbull further added, “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.’” Sen. Jacob Howard agreed:
[I] concur entirely with the honorable Senator from Illinois [Trumbull], in holding that the word “jurisdiction,” as here employed, ought to be construed so as to imply a full and complete jurisdiction on the part of the United States, coextensive in all respects with the constitutional power of the United States, whether exercised by Congress, by the executive, or by the judicial department; that is to say, the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now.
“There is a great deal of difference. Only a Natural Born Citizen can become President. For that, you have to be born on US soil, to two US parents.”
I don’t know about the two parents part. I always thought being born on U.S. soil was enough. I mean, children born on U.S. soil are citizens, right? And if they’re citizens at the time they’re born, I’m pretty sure that means they’re natural born citizens.
a comma creates a whole different meaning, doesn’t it?
not necessarily
“He will be seen as a traitor to his race.”
Uh, in what world is that not already the case?
The whole pile isn't doing too good either.
“That is fact and will probably disqualify McCain too, who was born in Panama.”
Except that McCain had two citizen parents, which I think probably fits what was originally intended.
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