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Clash of the Cavemen
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=295752 ^
Posted on 05/16/2008 6:14:42 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: Vaquero
"But further analysis of Mungos mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) could not link him to any human population living today." That is literally an impossible condition, as all humans share some percentage of DNA---so Mungo Man HAD to have some percentage of DNA overlapping modern humans. The question is "what percentage".
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
22
posted on
05/16/2008 11:07:36 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: Vaquero
23
posted on
05/16/2008 11:08:24 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: chessplayer
24
posted on
05/16/2008 11:12:01 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: Wonder Warthog
The Homo Heidelbergensis sample (this was to check for affinities between Neandertal and us folks) yielded fewer than 400 base pairs, out of a presumed 16,000+ originally in the mtDNA. The “study” was GIGO.
25
posted on
05/16/2008 11:13:47 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: SengirV
Either we ALL are, or none are. Iâll not argue against the fact that we all are. But I will argue that Europeans are NOT a species offshoot (mix of Neanderthal and Homo Sapien). And that the rest of the world are all Homo Sapiens.
That's not what Wolpoff claims anyway.
26
posted on
05/16/2008 11:15:36 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: Vaquero
"Genetics is moving so fast," says Chris Stringer, a paleoanthropologist at the Natural History Museum in London. "It's well ahead of the fossil and historical record."
Heh... Stringer is a Replacement advocate, actually *the* Replacement advocate, and that's just another in a long line of European-based racial superiority models.
Doncha love that quote, though -- the actual morphology, on which *all his assumptions are based*, doesn't mean anything, because we've got some DNA of some few thousands of living people, out of a population of six billion and more, and have made no sampling bias errors, and maintain our original assumptions as the conclusions of every study because we're right and everyone else is wrong, nyah nyah.
The non-speaking Neandertal idea is a persistent baseless idea, and makes a great companion to the baseless idea -- which has come down from Virchow -- that Neandertal went extinct and the glorious, gracile, body-beautiful moderns survived. And sometimes it's even claimed that not a drop of blood was shed in the process. I regard this whole corpus as analogous to Judge Bork's "political seduction of the law" -- it's the political seduction of science.
27
posted on
05/16/2008 11:24:59 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: Fractal Trader; blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...
28
posted on
05/16/2008 11:27:01 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: SunkenCiv
non-speaking Neandertal idea is a persistent baseless idea Of course they talked. The wimmin gossiped about the men when the men were out ambushing an aurochs and the men joked about a less-than-dextrous move that got one of them trampled by the aurochs. How would it be any different than now?
29
posted on
05/16/2008 11:32:27 AM PDT
by
RightWhale
(You are reading this now)
To: SunkenCiv
That’s what Vaquero implied. So go argue with him.
30
posted on
05/16/2008 11:58:58 AM PDT
by
SengirV
To: omega4179
Did that count as bestiality or ..Since they produced viable, fertile offspring, no. That passes the test for same species.
31
posted on
05/16/2008 2:05:26 PM PDT
by
null and void
(Hillary is trying to arrange a face-to-face meeting between Barrak Obama and Bobby Kennedy...)
To: Wonder Warthog
"The authors found that the Cro-Magnon mtDNA fit well within the spectrum of genetic variation exhibited by modern Europeans, but differed sharply from that of the Neandertals. They conclude that it is unlikely that Neandertals contributed to the current European gene pool."
Not what the data shows. mtDNA is a girl thing. The data shows that Neanderthal women did not contribute their DNA to modern Europeans. It is likely a Cro-Magnon man/Neanderthal woman match would result in a baby with a head too big for her birth canal.
OTOH a Cro-Magnon woman/Neanderthal man match could easily result in a kid that is stronger than mom's people and smarter than dad's people.
Why do you suppose our propaganda is saturated with the depictions of the enemy as ape-men coming to get our wimin?
It speaks to something very deep in the human psyche...
32
posted on
05/16/2008 2:14:25 PM PDT
by
null and void
(Hillary is trying to arrange a face-to-face meeting between Barrak Obama and Bobby Kennedy...)
To: RightWhale
“If the Neandertal had stayed in school when the Cro-Magnon schoolmarm had hit the neighborhood, he wouldn’t have been stuck with Auroch.” — John Kerry
33
posted on
05/16/2008 2:21:57 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
To: Vaquero
Wow! Mungo Jerry went back much further than I remembered!
34
posted on
05/16/2008 2:22:53 PM PDT
by
null and void
(Hillary is trying to arrange a face-to-face meeting between Barrak Obama and Bobby Kennedy...)
To: null and void
"It is likely a Cro-Magnon man/Neanderthal woman match would result in a baby with a head too big for her birth canal." Actually, the Neanderthals had larger total brain volume than the Cro-Magnons by about 100 mls (on average).
To: Wonder Warthog
But a Cro-Magnon head is rounder, and therefore wider.
Anyway, the real question is how much does the head grow after infancy.
Does a Neanderthal have a smaller or narrower head at birth than a Cro-Magnon? I'm guessing yes. Given how poorly the remains of neonatal mammals survive I doubt we'll ever have any proof one way or the other.
36
posted on
05/16/2008 2:29:30 PM PDT
by
null and void
(Hillary is trying to arrange a face-to-face meeting between Barrak Obama and Bobby Kennedy...)
To: null and void
It is likely a Cro-Magnon man/Neanderthal woman match would result in a baby with a head too big for her birth canal. OTOH a Cro-Magnon woman/Neanderthal man match could easily result in a kid that is stronger than mom's people and smarter than dad's people. Good point, actually.
Note that the "Liger" and the "Tigon" are hybrids, one is robust, the other weakly and generally does not survive into adulthood.
The possibility of one gender-based hybrid's success ( but untraceable DNA assimilation ) and the other hybrid's failure to leave a genetic legacy is a valid one.
37
posted on
05/19/2008 4:13:50 PM PDT
by
Drammach
(Freedom - It's not just a job, It's an Adventure)
To: Drammach
Hmmmmmm. Good point about the Liger and Tigon. Now I’m wondering if the sudden success of modern man is due to ‘hybrid vigor’ associated with some of the Neanderthal genes being thrown into the mix?
38
posted on
05/19/2008 4:42:33 PM PDT
by
null and void
(The one word of Chinese our congress really understands is 'kowtow')
To: NeoCaveman
you and your buds at it agin? ; )
39
posted on
05/19/2008 4:43:04 PM PDT
by
xsmommy
To: Drammach
Note that the "Liger" and the "Tigon" are hybrids, one is robust, the other weakly and generally does not survive into adulthood.Just a thought...
Would the Crothal and Neadernon possibly be Goliaths and leprechauns?...
40
posted on
05/24/2008 2:35:59 PM PDT
by
null and void
(The one word of Chinese our congress really understands is 'kowtow')
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