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To: P-Marlowe
No, we don’t believe Jesus was “created”, He was with the Father from the beginning. He is without beginning or end. You might want to check your anti literature more carefully:
Further, you will probably not read this, and I won’t be playing further, but here is it for those interested in the actual doctrine.

First, the reference to Lucifer falling from heaven found in Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

This is from the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church, and it is a record of a vision of the heavens.

D&C 76:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76/25#25

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only begotten of the Father—
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our Cod and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

292 posted on 12/11/2007 10:25:42 PM PST by sevenbak (Wise men still seek Him.)
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To: sevenbak; tioga; seekthetruth; xzins; MHGinTN; colorcountry; no more apples
No, we don’t believe Jesus was “created”, He was with the Father from the beginning. He is without beginning or end.

Just like you and Joseph Smith, right. It appears you are dissembling. On the one hand you claim that God is the Father of all Spirits and that means that Jesus and you are brothers, and then you try to deny that Jesus was a created being. What you really mean is that there are no created beings and that everyone, including you and me and "our elder brother" Jesus, are without beginning or end.

You are right, Mormons don't believe that Jesus was created. He was "procreated". He is literally the spiritual son of the Father just like every other human being who has ever walked the earth. The Mormon God didn't "create" Jesus. He didn't create anything. He merely organized the existing material after he was given the authority to do so by the Council of Gods on Kolob after the Heavenly Father had been exalted by that Council for all the good works he did when he was a Mormon (or the equivalent) on his own planet somewhere in the universe.

But, of course, you will deny that that is all "Mormon Doctrine", but then you won't deny that it is either possible or true.

That is the kind of nonsense I was taught when I was a Mormon. Maybe they don't teach it anymore, but I suspect they do. The whole doctrine of "Eternal Progression" is built upon this concept. That is the primary thing we were taught in Priesthood classes in the 1960's. It was the distinguishing difference between Mormonism and all the apostate churches like the Catholics and protestants.

Becoming a God is the ultimate goal of every male Mormon.

Are you going to deny that?

299 posted on 12/11/2007 10:57:37 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: sevenbak
No, we don’t believe Jesus was “created”,

Thank you. I knew all this stuff about Jesus being a "spirit child" and that He and Lucifer were brothers was a bunch of junk. Thank you for clarifying it.

323 posted on 12/12/2007 3:32:49 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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