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To: sevenbak; tioga; seekthetruth; xzins; MHGinTN; colorcountry; no more apples
No, we don’t believe Jesus was “created”, He was with the Father from the beginning. He is without beginning or end.

Just like you and Joseph Smith, right. It appears you are dissembling. On the one hand you claim that God is the Father of all Spirits and that means that Jesus and you are brothers, and then you try to deny that Jesus was a created being. What you really mean is that there are no created beings and that everyone, including you and me and "our elder brother" Jesus, are without beginning or end.

You are right, Mormons don't believe that Jesus was created. He was "procreated". He is literally the spiritual son of the Father just like every other human being who has ever walked the earth. The Mormon God didn't "create" Jesus. He didn't create anything. He merely organized the existing material after he was given the authority to do so by the Council of Gods on Kolob after the Heavenly Father had been exalted by that Council for all the good works he did when he was a Mormon (or the equivalent) on his own planet somewhere in the universe.

But, of course, you will deny that that is all "Mormon Doctrine", but then you won't deny that it is either possible or true.

That is the kind of nonsense I was taught when I was a Mormon. Maybe they don't teach it anymore, but I suspect they do. The whole doctrine of "Eternal Progression" is built upon this concept. That is the primary thing we were taught in Priesthood classes in the 1960's. It was the distinguishing difference between Mormonism and all the apostate churches like the Catholics and protestants.

Becoming a God is the ultimate goal of every male Mormon.

Are you going to deny that?

299 posted on 12/11/2007 10:57:37 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
Twist our doctrine all you want, it won’t change anything. If you would actually read our doctrine instead of evangelical talking points, from those who profit handsomely from it, I might add, you just might learn something.

The pre-existence of man is not a modern concept.

Proverbs 8:

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Further, you might find the words from the Apocrypha Book of Enoch of interest to you.

“Enoch went to the Lord who taught him all about the creation and his works . He saw matter unorganized before the creation council in Heaven. He saw Satan aspire and get cast out to become the foundation of lower things, beyond which there is great darkness and nothing. And the Lord said ‘And now Enoch all that I have explained to thee and all thou has seen on Earth and all thou hast written in thy books .It is my wisdom that I have organized and made all these things and it was by my word that it was carried out,

..... And every thing found in the world has been before and has passed

before him and has been organized before him ...AII the creations Of the World have existed in each generation before they came to this world .All the souls of the children of men have been before they came down to the world formed before him in Heaven in the very likeness that they have in this world ...For all souls are prepared to eternity before the formation of the world .

And the Angel said to Enoch sit down and write All of the spirits of men and those who have not yet been born yet, the places which have been prepared for them . All things were prepared since before the foundation of the world” 2 Enoch 9:

“Enoch answered the people saying hear my children ,before anything was and before the whole creation took place, the Lord established the age of creation; and after that he made all of the creation both visible and invisible and after that he created man in his own image. He gave him eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart to think with and a mind to council. I swear to you my children that before man was in the womb of his mother we were prepared, each individual and a place for each spirit that each should sojourn here in his proper time, that man might be tested in the balance ...” 2 Enoch 17:

” Enoch went to the Lord who taught him all about creation and his works... He saw matter unorganized before the creation...the council in heaven... He saw Satan aspire and get cast out to become the foundation of lower things, beyond which there ii great darkness and nothing”

2 Enoch 11:

” Then the angel Braboil said: Sit down and write all the spirits of men, all those who have not been born yet, and the places which have been prepared for them. All these things were prepared since before the foundation of the world. And I wrote down all the affairs of men. Secrets of Enoch 10: (Vaillant)

301 posted on 12/11/2007 11:13:29 PM PST by sevenbak (Wise men still seek Him.)
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