Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 05/26/2007 5:45:05 AM PDT by Renfield
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: blam; SunkenCiv

Ping.


2 posted on 05/26/2007 5:45:29 AM PDT by Renfield
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield
I read some years ago that mummified bodies found buried on the desert plains of Mongolia were found wrapped in Scottish plaid or tartan. The theory was the Celts had accompanied Alexander the Great on his eastern conquests.
3 posted on 05/26/2007 5:49:28 AM PDT by Cornpone (Islam: The world's greatest, preventable and treatable psychosis. ©2006Cornpone)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield

I was hoping this story was related to the Roman prisoners of war who were said to ended up in China after the Battle of Carrhae.

Still, its very interesting nonetheless.


5 posted on 05/26/2007 6:03:43 AM PDT by Aetius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield; Cornpone
The Tocharians or Tusharas as known in Indian literature were the easternmost speakers of an Indo-European language in antiquity, inhabiting the Tarim basin in what is now Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, northwestern People’s Republic of China. Their unique culture spanned from the 1st millennium BC to the end of the 1st millennium AD.

Their language is called Tocharian.

Archaeology
The Tarim mummies suggest that precursors of these easternmost speakers of an Indo-European language may have lived in the region of the Tarim Basin from around 1800 BC until finally they were assimilated by Uyghur Turks in the 9th century AD.

“Tocharian donors”, possibly the “Knights with Long Swords” of Chinese accounts, depicted with light hair and light eye color and dressed in Sassanian style. 6th century AD fresco, Qizil, Tarim Basin. Graphical analysis reveals that the third donor from left is performing a Buddhist vitarka mudra. These frescoes are associated with annotations in Tocharian and Sanskrit made by their painters.There is evidence both from the mummies and Chinese writings that many of them had blonde or red hair and blue eyes, characteristics also found in present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Central Asia, due to the populations’ high genetic diversity. This suggests the possibility that they were part of an early migration of speakers of Indo-European languages that ended in what is now the Tarim Basin in western China. According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into modern Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Pakistan and northern India in the form of Kushans and the Tocharo-Iranic Hephthalites.

The Tarim Basin mummies (1800 BC) and the Tocharian texts and frescoes from the Tarim Basin (AD 800) have been found in the same general geographical area, and are both connected to an Indo-European origin. The faces on these frescos were usually vandalized in the past due to their European features. The mummies and the frescoes both point to White types with light eyes and hair color. There is no evidence that directly connects them however, as no texts were recovered from the grave sites.

A recent article (Hemphill and Mallory, 2004) reaches the following conclusions:

This study confirms the assertion of Han [1998] that the occupants of Alwighul and Krorän are not derived from proto-European steppe populations, but share closest affinities with Eastern Mediterranean populations. Further, the results demonstrate that such Eastern Mediterraneans may also be found at the urban centers of the Oxus civilization located in the north Bactrian oasis to the west. Affinities are especially close between Krorän, the latest of the Xinjiang samples, and Sapalli, the earliest of the Bactrian samples, while Alwighul and later samples from Bactria exhibit more distant phenetic affinities. This pattern may reflect a possible major shift in interregional contacts in Central Asia in the early centuries of the second millennium BC.
However, another theory states that the earliest Bronze Age settlers of the Tarim and Turpan basins originated from the steppelands and highlands immediately north of East Central Asia. These colonists were related to the Afanasievo culture which exploited both open steppelands and upland environments employing a mixed agricultural economy. The Afanasievo culture formed the eastern linguistic periphery of the Indo-European continuum of languages whose centre of expansion lay much farther to the west, north of the Black and Caspian seas. This periphery was ancestral to the historical Tocharian languages. See J. P. Mallory and Victor H. Mair, The Tarim Mummies — 2000 Thames and Hudson Ltd ISBN 0-500-05101-1.

LANGUAGE:

The Tocharians appear to have originally spoken two distinct languages of the Indo-European Tocharian family, an Eastern (”A”) form and a Western (”B”) form. According to some, only the Eastern (”A”) form can be properly called “Tocharian”, as the native name for the Western form is referred to as Kuchean (see below). Commonalities between the Tocharian languages and various other Indo-European language families (as with Germanic, Balto-Slavic, even Italic or Greek) have been suggested, but the evidence does not support any close relationship with any other family. The only consensus is that Tocharian was already far enough removed, at an early date, from the other eastern I-E proto-languages (Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Indo-Iranian), not to share some of the common changes that PBS and PII share, such as early palatalization of velars.

Tocharian A of the eastern regions seems to have declined in use as a popular language or mother tongue faster than did Tocharian B of the west. Tocharian A speakers probably yielded their original language to Turkic languages of immigrating Turkic peoples, while Tocharian B speakers were more insulated from outside linguistic influences. It appears that Tocharian A ultimately became a liturgical language, no longer a living one, at the same time that Tocharian B was still widely spoken in daily life. Among the monasteries of the lands inhabited by Tocharian B speakers, Tocharian A seems to have been used in ritual alongside the Tocharian B of daily life.

Besides the religious Tocharian texts, the texts include monastery correspondence and accounts, commercial documents, caravan permits, medical and magical texts, and a love poem. Their manuscript fragments, of the 8th centuries, suggest that they were no longer either as nomadic or “barbarian (hu)” as the Chinese had considered them.

Tocharians in Indian Literature

Sanskrit literature in numerous instances refers to the Tocharians as Tusharas, Tukharas, Tokharas and Tuharas etc.

The Atharavaveda-Parishishta associates the Tusharas with the Sakas, Yavanas and the Bahlikas. It also juxtaposes the Kambojas with the Bahlikas. This shows the Tusharas probably were neighbors to the Shakas, Bahlikas, Yavanas and the Kambojas in Transoxian region.

The Rishikas are said to be same people as the Yuezhi

Tocharians.

7 posted on 05/26/2007 6:15:04 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; ...
Thanks Renfield. Blam, I think we had one about this? Anyway, I'm going to ping it anyway, interesting replies.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

11 posted on 05/26/2007 8:45:29 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 22, 2007.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield

Marco!

Polo!!

;>)


12 posted on 05/26/2007 8:47:26 AM PDT by Ready4Freddy ("Everyone knows there's a difference between Muslims and terrorists. No one knows what it is, tho...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield
MARCO?????
18 posted on 05/26/2007 11:32:27 AM PDT by mware (By all that you hold dear..on this good earth... I bid you stand! Men of the West!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield

The ranks of famous full-sized terra cotta soldiers found in XIAN contain figures that certainly looked Caucasian to me — perhaps Turks. I’ve forgotten that dates attributed to them, but there are from the tomb of the 1st Emperor of China.


23 posted on 05/26/2007 12:11:31 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield
CALL! CALL! CALL! CALL! AND KEEP CALLING TILL THE LINES FRY!

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! TILL YOU RUN OUT OF INK IN YOUR PEN!

Bombard the Democrats as well, especially the ones that ran on an anti immigration plank and the ones in marginal districts who could be vulnerable. keep pounding on them.

STOP AMNESTY NOW!! WE CAN DO IT!!

The best way to stop Shamnesty

24 posted on 05/26/2007 1:05:29 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield

Apparently this person was a diplomat who got around a lot. Although they did not really need DNA evidence to know that he was a foreigner ... his tomb depicted his life story and foreign origins quite clearly.


38 posted on 05/28/2007 10:47:34 PM PDT by PuTiDaMo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield
Gee, I wonder if back then, too, people followed him around the village, pointing their fingers at him, yelling "waiguoren!", "waiguoren!"??
46 posted on 05/29/2007 9:42:28 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Thank GOODNESS there can be no third term.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Renfield

This may answer the question as to who is buried in General Gau’s tomb.


53 posted on 05/31/2007 12:19:52 PM PDT by AU72
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson