Skip to comments.White House slams carpooling, new road fees better (children, minorities hardest hit...)
Posted on 02/12/2007 1:03:09 PM PST by presidio9
Carpooling won't do much to reduce U.S. highway congestion in urban areas, and a better solution would be to build new highways and charge drivers fees to use them, the White House said on Monday.
"It is increasingly appropriate to charge drivers for some roadway use in the same way the private market charges for other goods and services," the White House said in its annual report on the U.S. economy.
While some urban areas have designated roads for vehicles with two or more passengers, those high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes are often underused because carpooling is becoming less popular, the administration said.
Based on the latest data supplied by the White House, only about 13 percent of motorists carpooled to work in 2000. That compared with 20 percent of daily American commuters in 1980.
"This trend makes it unlikely that initiatives focused on carpooling will make large strides in reducing vehicle use," the White House said.
Building more highways won't reduce congestion either, unless drivers are charged a fee, according to the administration.
"If a roadway is priced -- that is, if drivers have to pay a fee to access a particular road -- then congestion can be avoided by adjusting the price up or down at different times of day to reflect changes in demand for its use," the White House said. "Road space is allocated to drivers who most highly value a reliable and unimpaired commute."
Critics of such fees argue that road tolls would make new highways reserved mostly for wealthy drivers, who are more likely to travel in expensive, gas-guzzling vehicles.
But the White House said urban road expansions should be focused on highways where drivers demonstrate a willingness to pay a fee that is higher than the actual cost of construction, allowing communities to avoid raising taxes on everyone to build the roads.
The administration argued that congestion pricing is already used by many providers of goods and services: movie theaters charge more for tickets in the evening than they do at midday, just as ski resorts raise lift prices on weekends. Similarly, airlines boost prices on tickets during peak travel seasons and taxi cabs raise fares during the rush hour.
That's just the introductory "sucker" offer. Wait a while.
The government won't go for that.
If you aren't driving, they don't get gas tax, toll road tax, or revenue traffic ticket tax.
The beast needs you in your car paying taxes.
That is a lie, no existing roads were converted to tolls. It was only new construction (such as adding mainlanes in between existing frontage roads or completely new roads) that were tolled.
I've never been in a cab alone.
Wow. Down here is So Cal they are building high density apartment complexes like you wouldn't believe. They are literally all over the place. I drive past them every day. I have wondered what was driving that. Its all part of the plan to "get us out of our cars" lie, and to make money off of us. That old song, " I owe my soul to the company store," will have new meaning, won't it?
As to HOV, I use it every day, but not for work. I stay at home, my hubby's job is 10 minutes away form our house. What am I doing? I drive my daughter to ballet every day, five days a week. If this goes though, it will be a tax on my daughter's passion to someday have a chance to be a ballet dancer. And it keeps her fit. Gads. But at least I tell her that everyone on that road with us has paid for the HOV lane we drive in. They have as much right to that lane as we do.
Get drivers out of their cars."
GET ILLEGAL INTRUDERS OUT OF THE USA!!!!!
Roads are a unique element of public infrastructure in that they induce additional demand above and beyond what they were originally designed to accommodate. Instituting a "user fee" on a road is no different than having a public utility charge variable rates for electricity based on when demand is highest and lowest.
Trains and bikes work in Europe, and riding to and from the trains on bikes means no fat people [for the most part.]
Hybrid, vegetable oil, and electric cars pay lesser or no road taxes. The future will have to find new revenue streams to pay for new road construction.
No, it doesnt. It uses Empirical (Statistical) Modeling to estimate the population over the 10-year period.
I'd like to see those working for public transportation using more public transportation.
I see them getting around in cars like everybody else. If it works so well, they should be using it.
Complete and total bullshit pulled from your paranoid ass, but that seems to be all that is posted around here these days. Who needs facts and truth when we can all just rant about conspiracy dreams and plug-n-play boogieman. Yeah, its all a communist plot by that evil George W. Bush, the Buildaburgers, Masons, and Mexicans. Yep, every politician is corrupt and wants to record your every thought and keystroke. And of course the tollways are being built so that the Chinese Mexicans can round up your guns and then drive all conservatives to the concentration camps Rudy Giuliani is going to set up at the behest of his secret boss Hillary.
This place has been overrun by the kooks. Congrats, you won.
Hahahahahahahaha. That's rich. Have you found many people who buy your wordsmithing?
1. The system is pretty much built to completion, and won't be expanded very much over the next 50 years.
2. Every segment of the IHS will be reaching the end of its useful life over the next 50 years (if it hasn't done so already), and the cost of rehabilitating/upgrading it -- while at the same time doing normal, routine maintenance, year after year -- will be enormous.
Here in NYC, litterally hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of women do just that every day.
That makes two of us!
Love my F-150 Lightning and my old Bronco SUV!!
Ya can't beat a vehicle with big booming V8 engine!!
What the heck has happened to the President? You and he are both goofy. Refresh your memory, all the Federal and state tax paid on fuel is our "fee" for driving upon the public way. The fee is simmply being misspent.
Uhg. More "all taxes is stupit" bullcrap.
Republicans need to take some time thinking about what makes a tax fair and what makes a tax unfair instead of just assuming all taxes are bad.
Well, that would be correct if the taxes weren't schlepped into the general fund and used for everything else. The states do the same thing. IF they actually used that tremendous source of taxes for roads, etc. our highways would be in great shape.
NO MORE FEES OR TAXES!
What do you do when they jack up the HOV requirement to 4+, then 6+, then 21+ (buses only!)? You're screwed. You've let your public servants take away
Your right to travel
Your right to go out of your house (since they "own" all the streets)
Your right to get a living
Your right to go shopping, or anywhere else.
A man's home is his castle (for now). The rest of the world is hostile to that notion.
You can now work and shop from home. But the downtown boys still want their money from the property taxes on your castle to pay for their billion dollars in sports stadiums.
Like I said above -- it isn't about "taxes". It's about "income" for private interests who are going through the Lobby and the RNC to get their hands on public assets and charge rent for their use.
Google on "NASCO", "Indiana Turnpike", "Austin +toll roads +Rick Perry +Zachry". You will receive an education, after you've read what's out there for a couple of hours.
The German gas tax is more like 4 times ours, and most of it goes toward the subsidization of the rail system, keeping the cost of tickets rather low, thereby encouraging use.
SEPTIC is the worst, and I swear, they strike at the drop of a hat. Plus, the fare increases and cuts in schedule are making it harder to stick with public transport.
And the taxes you pay when you renew your license tags.
You don't like SEPTA?
One upside to such an approach is that the federal government would be halted from forcing through legislation by holding highway funds hostage.
Matters that are supposed to go to the state (including BA 0.08, drinking age at 21, but not limited to alcohol) would return to the state legislatures.
Great argument against the Bill of Rights, too.
When people are too free, they don't appreciate it. Turn all their rights into privileges and sell them, and marvel at the improvement! So many dollars for habeas corpus, so many dollars to be registered to vote. Fist-class citizenship $40,000/year; second-class, $5000, and so on. Right down to the economy plan, where somebody owns you and works your back over with a whip every day.
But they can fine you for violating that lane. And on some highways, it is an EPA mandated thing so you get hit with some pretty high fines.
Another wonderful revenue stream.
More money is made by ticketing those who illegally park at parking meters than on the change that is pumped into the meters.
Since outlawing guns didn't end driveby shootings, we'll outlaw cars. It is easier to spot someone with a car than with a concealed weapon.
When cars are outlawed, only outlaws will have cars.
Here in the foothills and Sacramento, the local bus is almost close enough for me to walk but having chronic pain makes the more than 1/4 mile walk extremely painful. So I drive. If the stop was two blocks closer I'd take the bus. It's certainly cheaper. It only costs around $125.00 a month. Parking and gas are easily double that.
One more thing, in order to get into the HOV lane you need a total of two occupants. They should change the law so both occupants must have a driver's license, otherwise, having an infant in the passenger seat doesn't get a car off of the road.
"I know TX was talking about it and I don't know why they switched to the TTC talks"
Developers. Rapid rail (not necessarily "light") systems are the best solution for our urban-suburban traffic congestion problems, BUT they alter the economic value of the land. Property near the rail stations is valuable but areas distant from them drop in value (relatively).
You got it. They'll want someone flogging those drones right smart through those milking turnstiles downtown every day, making that squeezejuice flow out of them like honeydew from an army of aphids, yum yum yum.
look at every urban area in the US that has built roads over the last 20 years. See any improvement in traffic flow? Is it taking you less time to go from Atlanta to Orlando this year versus in 2000? Doesn't matter how much is spent on highway development or where the money comes from, the rate of increase in the number of cars exceeds the rate at which we can expand the highways.
There, I got it out of my system......
I've been following the I-35 plan for several years and read about it when I pass into Austin every year.
Is that proposal now shelved permanently?
You're right. But that doesn't mean they are immune to the same economic forces at work in a private market.
Simply put, this means that an asset whose use is free -- or is perceived to be "free" by the users -- will always tend to be used to excess. That, in a nutshell, is what highway congestion is all about.
They always use a somewhat different reason to say you can't telecommute but what you said is the real reason!
That's a "slam"?
More people on the toll roads means fewer people on the public ones. Sounds like a win-win to me.
This is coming to some areas too.
I don't know what makes me angrier...being treated like I'm stupid, or them acting like they are. The difference, of course, is that the airlines are charging for the use of property they own, and can therefore charge whatever they want. I don't have to think it's a good idea. On the other hand...if the government wants to charge me for the use of something I already paid for, then they have to do a better job of selling it than they have.
If you own the rapid rail system, that's true.
In fact, the U.S. Constitution specifically gives the Federal government the authority to "regulate interstate commerce," and to build and maintain "post roads," ports and harbors -- and that's about all. Anything above and beyond that -- including the construction of a "free" system of highways -- was never part of the deal.
And whether you can even leave town.
The less need you have for a car for work or play, the less need you have for a car.
Bicyclists in Amsterdam have right-of-way over pedestrians.
And cities can be 20 miles apart or less with high speed trains connecting them.
I've never ridden in a tow truck... precisely because I wouldn't want to climb into one with the seedy looking character behind the wheel.
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