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Oregon high court rules for Scouts, against atheist mother
Seattle Times ^ | 9/8/06

Posted on 09/08/2006 7:14:36 PM PDT by dukeman

PORTLAND — The Oregon Supreme Court today rejected the discrimination claim of an atheist whose son was required to attend a Boy Scout recruiting session in a Portland public school.

The Scout oath requires members "to do my duty to God and my country" but simply providing information to pupils in public schools isn't discrimination under Oregon Law, the court said.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: atheists; boyscouts; bsa; culturewars; moralabsolutes; ruling
Maybe the kid will grow up to be a Baptist pastor.
1 posted on 09/08/2006 7:14:38 PM PDT by dukeman
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To: dukeman
Oh god, please not a Baptist, he'll end up in therapy.

How bout less brutal denomination?

2 posted on 09/08/2006 7:18:34 PM PDT by zarf
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To: dukeman
Schools can indoctrinate little kids into a life of homosexuality but DON'T YOU DARE get a Boy Scout near those impressionable kids...

Why the country will go down the tubes. First destroy any morals/values in the kids.

3 posted on 09/08/2006 7:19:15 PM PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: dukeman

Kistler is an idiot.


4 posted on 09/08/2006 7:19:19 PM PDT by AZRepublican ("The degree in which a measure is necessary can never be a test of the legal right to adopt it.")
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To: dukeman

Time for the Scouts to sue mommy for all the court costs they accrued while they were defending themselves from a godless screwball.


5 posted on 09/08/2006 7:19:53 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The "Peace sign" is the DemocRATS' last act of defiance before they cut 'n' run from the WOT.)
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To: zarf

I'm not a Baptist, but I like 'em just fine.


6 posted on 09/08/2006 7:26:56 PM PDT by dukeman
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To: All
That lady could have enrolled her son in the man/boy group and not caused such a useless fuss./s
7 posted on 09/08/2006 7:27:26 PM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:-)
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To: dukeman

Standard reading for Boy Scouts. Love those conservative women.

8 posted on 09/08/2006 7:34:35 PM PDT by tflabo (Take authority that's ours)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
First destroy any morals/values in the kids.

From the 1963 Congressional Record, item number 17 of Communist Gals (most of which they have achieved by the way) is "Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks."

Here are some other relevant sections from that document:

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

Sound familiar?
9 posted on 09/08/2006 7:35:07 PM PDT by JayNorth
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To: JayNorth

"Gals" should read "Goals".


10 posted on 09/08/2006 7:35:56 PM PDT by JayNorth
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To: dukeman
Maybe the kid will grow up to be a Baptist pastor.<<<

Yup!..or a Pall bearer
11 posted on 09/08/2006 7:36:28 PM PDT by M-cubed (Why is "Greshams Law" a law?)
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To: dukeman

Some people just aren't trustworthy, loyal, helpful, freindly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.


12 posted on 09/08/2006 7:37:02 PM PDT by SmithL (The fact that they can't find Hoffa is proof that he never existed.)
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To: dukeman

Ditto.


13 posted on 09/08/2006 7:37:18 PM PDT by sarasmom (Lead, follow, or get out of the way .The "debate" ended on 91101 for serious adults.)
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To: tflabo

Bingo!..She says it all doesn't she!...If I were 20 yrs younger...*G*


14 posted on 09/08/2006 7:39:16 PM PDT by M-cubed (Why is "Greshams Law" a law?)
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To: dukeman
This is the second time this year that the Oregon Supreme Court has surprised me by issuing a competent ruling. (btw, my dealings with the lady that filed the lawsuit showed her to be a whiny non stop complainer over every suspected offense against her)
15 posted on 09/08/2006 7:43:46 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: SmithL

Gawd!..I cant remember yesterday....but i remember that!....What a great start for a kid..no matter where they go...


16 posted on 09/08/2006 7:45:05 PM PDT by M-cubed (Why is "Greshams Law" a law?)
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To: JayNorth
Truly incredible! I'll have to read the entire thing. Do you have a link for it?

Do liberals even care that they are promoting the Communist agenda?

17 posted on 09/08/2006 7:45:40 PM PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: dukeman
The Oregon Supreme Court today rejected the discrimination claim of an atheist whose son was required to attend a Boy Scout recruiting session in a Portland public school.


I almost missed that part. The kids are offered the opportunity to skip the presentation, but, most don't because of peer pressure and the fact that they are kids and Scouting is FUN!!!
18 posted on 09/08/2006 7:49:51 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

A public school has no business REQUIRING students to attend recruiting pitches by private, outside organizations. This school is going to regret the precedent it set, when the local gay/bi/transgender activists, Communist Party USA, anti-war activists, etc. show up demanding to have all the students attend THEIR pitches. But I expect this will get overturned on appeal -- there's a lot more than state law operating here, since the public skools are sucking on the federal teat.


19 posted on 09/08/2006 7:50:41 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: crazyhorse691
btw, my dealings with the lady that filed the lawsuit showed her to be a whiny non stop complainer over every suspected offense against her

I believe that you've just described liberals.

20 posted on 09/08/2006 7:53:38 PM PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Don't get too excited there. The "required" portion dealt with peer pressure put on the kid, not a forced school mandate.

But believe everything you read...


21 posted on 09/08/2006 7:57:44 PM PDT by Carling (It's Danny, Sir)
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To: dukeman

"That offer, both in fact and in operation, divided the elementary school children into two groups: those whose religious views agreed with the Scouts' views and those whose views did not," he wrote.

____________

Public schools don't need the scouts to divide the children into two groups.....public schools do it everyday without help: Those who believe in religion and those that don't.


22 posted on 09/08/2006 7:58:24 PM PDT by teacherwoes (To a liberal diversity is finding different people who agree with them)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

I believe that you've just described liberals.



Was I that obvious? You can't throw a rock in Portland without 5 progressives claiming you hit them.


23 posted on 09/08/2006 7:59:05 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: dukeman; RonF; AppauledAtAppeasementConservat; Looking for Diogenes; Congressman Billybob; ...
WOO-HOO!

24 posted on 09/08/2006 9:30:32 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: zarf

Oh god, please not a Baptist, he'll end up in therapy.

What's wrong with Baptist? They believe in the gospel and that the Bible is the Word of God and their statement of faith is right on, so what's with putting them down?


25 posted on 09/08/2006 9:41:17 PM PDT by garylmoore (Faith is the assurance of things unseen.)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: dukeman

Hmmmmm ..?? A court with brains .. whoda thunk it!


27 posted on 09/08/2006 10:16:57 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: dukeman
"...Dissenting, Justice Rives Kistler said the Scouts' offer "appeared to be open to all the elementary school children without limitation," but that wasn't the case.

"That offer, both in fact and in operation, divided the elementary school children into two groups: those whose religious views agreed with the Scouts' views and those whose views did not," he wrote"

Oh goodness, no. Don't let them be divided Um...I thought libs were supposed to be experts on diversity!

28 posted on 09/08/2006 10:17:46 PM PDT by right-wingin_It
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To: zarf

Head in rectal defilade?


29 posted on 09/08/2006 10:28:45 PM PDT by EricT. (SpecOps needs to paint the NYT building with a targeting laser.)
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To: SandRat

Good news!


30 posted on 09/09/2006 4:58:03 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Mother of a horde: it's not just an adventure - it's a job!)
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To: Carling

Where do you find that information? It isn't mentioned in the article; not even the part where the court's own words explain the grounds for the decision.
A more detailed article http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2006/09/09/news/oregon/1ore09scoutrecruitsuit.txt mentions a footnote in the court's ruling saying it didn’t see how state law “prohibits an organization, even a hate group, from making a neutral presentation to students, or how such a presentation, even by a hate group, necessarily would subject a person to differential treatment or discrimination." The court -- whose decision is what we're discussing here -- is making the same point I made, only claiming that it's just fine under state law (which it may be, but as long as the school is using federal funds, it's also subject to state law). I haven't seen the text of the state law referred to, but I can just imagine what the court's ruling would REALLY be if a school invited the American Nazi Party or KKK or a militant black separatist group to hold a recruiting session on school property during lunchtime. The fact that the Boy Scout recruiting pitch told all boys they could join is also problematic, since it is false -- boys who responded by trying to join, while professing honestly not to believe in any God, would be rejected.

I happen to think the Boy Scouts is a great organization, and that their requirement to believe in God is sufficiently broad to include a majority of American boys, representing some very divergent belief systems. But there's no reason they can't hold recruiting sessions after school hours, when the law is clear that the school facilities must be open to rental/use on an equal basis by any private or public group whose activities aren't illegal, even narrow sectarian groups.

But at any rate, the line between required and pressured is often pretty thin in reality. I expect there was technically a way to opt out of that idiotic California school's "pretend to be a Muslim" program -- trouble is 1) parents weren't notified in advance, and 2) there was really nowhere for a non-participating kid to go while the rest of the class did this crap. Again, the school would probably have claimed that a child could have gone and sat in the principal's office for a few hours, if the parents demanded the child not participate, but that's not very realistic, nor would most of the people who see no problem with this Boy Scout recruiting event be satisfied with that method of opting their own child out of a portion of the regular school day schedule. A technically available, but extremely awkward "way out", wouldn't make the "pretend to be a Muslim" program acceptable for a public school.


31 posted on 09/09/2006 7:01:45 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: zarf
[Oh god, please not a Baptist, he'll end up in therapy.]

You mean a liberal atheist bible denouncing denomination that will be left behind at the rapture because of their unbelief. Liberal has become a vile word both politically and ecumenically as they have and are the same people who deny how that Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose again the third day for our salvation overcoming death, hell and the grave. Liberal denominations usually always deny the scriptures truth and practice heresies that deny the truth of the Holy Bible. Generally, they are replacement theologians who deny that God will lead Israel back into the land and establish them therein and protect them from all their enemies in the world, even if all nations come against Israel to destroy it during the tribulation period called Armageddon.
32 posted on 09/09/2006 7:13:38 AM PDT by ohhhh (...every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.)
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To: wagglebee

A good one. In OR, no less!!


33 posted on 09/09/2006 7:35:07 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: SandRat

Double that "Woo-Hoo"


34 posted on 09/09/2006 10:15:35 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Tax-chick
How are things?

My son is doing his Eagle project!

I can't believe it, already.

35 posted on 09/09/2006 10:17:27 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema

We're doing very well! Today was floor-cleaning day :-). The baby is Creepy now, so it quickly becomes obvious when the floors are icky.

Bill has finished two more merit badges, for a total of three, and he's pretty close to being done with another. I think he can get his Star rank by the end of the year.

What's your son doing for his Eagle project? My oldest daughter (15) is finishing up her Girl Scouts Silver Award project, building and installing bluebird houses. It's been quite a learning experience, lots of trial and error, but that's what builds character.


36 posted on 09/09/2006 1:16:40 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Mother of a horde: it's not just an adventure - it's a job!)
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To: dukeman; abcraghead; aimhigh; Archie Bunker on steroids; bicycle thug; blackie; coffeebreak; ...

Oregon Ping

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Oregon Ping List.

37 posted on 09/10/2006 9:17:42 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: zarf

Why? Afraid he'll save your soul?


38 posted on 09/10/2006 9:19:11 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Salvation

Thanks for the ping! Interestingly, I took my 'baby' to his first day of Kindergarten today and walked down the hall behind a little boy all done up in his cub scouts uniform.

I got all excited thinking it won't be long 'til it's offered to my boy! He'll love it!

Anyway, glad to see it's not banned here!


39 posted on 09/11/2006 6:16:25 PM PDT by momfirst
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To: CyberAnt

**A court with brains .. whoda thunk it!**

And guts by stand by the law! Who would have thought that?


40 posted on 09/11/2006 10:00:54 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: momfirst

**Anyway, glad to see it's not banned here!**

Makes me hope that this trend in Oregon continues!


41 posted on 09/11/2006 10:02:50 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
Truly incredible! I'll have to read the entire thing. Do you have a link for it?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1529020/posts
42 posted on 09/14/2006 6:41:17 AM PDT by JayNorth
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