Fair Tax Leads Boortz Poll of Top House Issues

Which issue do you think Republicans should focus on to keep control of the House?

You tell me to look something up which would solidify your argument, but then tell me you are not actually recommending it, presumably because it would weaken your argument against polls. Ok.

Then you get all upset when I "misinterpret" what you are saying, even though I repeat it verbatim, while at the same time you invent a host of things I said which cannot be found in any posts, and which would completely change the meaning of the conclusions I reached. Ok.

Then you use the word "obsession" to describe an attempt to distinguish between polls (which you do not believe in), but refer to nonetheless. Ok.

Then you challenge my use of the word "judgment" as if it were some demonic reference, in spite of your "judgment" concerning the economy, the value of the Fair Tax, the real value of the FDR program to get the country back to work, the dangers of terrorism and Islam, and a host of other issues. At least my "judgment" on statistical sampling is supportable, while all of yours amount to mere speculation. But your "judgment" is somehow valid, while mine obviously is not.

A few specifics:

And there you go again with your old habit of pronouncing what is "reliable", "representative",etc. so that the rest or us ignorami know what to think.

Think whatever you will. Someone who has no concept of statistics may well say that 100 independent polls taken by professional organizations that reflect the same thing are no more valid or representative than a single person's response with no follow up. You know, even if you won't admit it that the former is more reliable and representative than the latter. Both terms are useful, and almost anyone would see that reliability is increased with more samples. Representative is a legitimate term if the poll was taken within the parameters I attempted to explain to you. Once done, it is incumbent on the critic to explain why it is not representative of the population as a whole, rather than just casting a cloak of disdain over all polls ever taken. But no matter the professionalism of the statistical entity or of the economic entity, somehow, you, with all of your knowledge and experience can simply blow them all off as meaningless. Sounds like a judgment without any support to me.

Just to be clear - yes it IS your mistake since I did not "recommend" any polls to you ... on this subject or any other.

Again my bad. You tell me how important the Fair Tax is and in the same breath, tell me there are lots of polls to support that....but then later tell me you are not recommending them. Ok.

Actually I doubt the Dems wish to censure W but to remove him completely ASAP and re-institute what they believe to be their own provincial land (all branches of government).

I'll say one thing for you. You are a spin-meister. But the fact remains, on both issues, the Democrats used polls to assist them, rather than the other way around as you suggested.

Please spare me the patronizing attitude. The ice/stove example certainly fits what I was illustrating and is VERY relevant to the man whose hands are thus deployed.

Yes, looking back over a few of your "Fair Tax" threads, you would never appear patronizing! And if the silly example somehow proves the invalidity of statistical sampling to you, I submit a course in statistics would help you out a lot.

More of your patronizing - but it is nice to know you plan to look into he FairTax since it is presently apparent you know very little about it.

You are correct, I have little knowledge of the program, unlike you, you seem to have no need of learning anything at all. My hat's off to you sir.

Be sure and post on some of the active Tax Reform Threads when you've done so ... but please spare us the patronizing attitude.

Well, if I disagree with any of the underlying assumptions,calculations or projections, I will come with my flak jacket on, as I have seen how you "believers" treat anyone who raises any question about it.

Perhaps you've misunderstood what I've been saying about payroll withholdings (S/S, M/C). These figures are not counted in GDP since they are not part of the newly produced goods and services and they are not in the OECD tax figures, but should be.

A couple of points. First, you did take the position that they should be in the GDP, until I explained the fallacy of that to you. Second, please see the link below. It breaks down all taxes by country and by type. As for the US, it shows that social security is broken down by employer paid and employee paid, and still shows the same relative standing worldwide. Select the table on taxation for 2005. Let me guess, your comeback will be that it is out of date since we are now into 2006.

http://www.oecd.org/statisticsdata/0,2643,en_2649_37427_1_119656_1_1_37427,00.html

But if you will kindly link me to your conclusions to the contrary, I will look them over. As I said, this is a critical issue for the Fair Tax.

Even so, the FairTax looks much better taxwise than even the figure you posted since (as can be determined from the AFFT website) a current percentage figure would be in the 19 - 20% range.

I accept that comment until I look deeper into the assumptions contained within the Fair Tax. Even so, while it would show a better tax rate overall, it loses the criticality and necessity of being the number one issue for the election campaign. Of course, that is just a judgment.....

First of all, thank for the OECD link. I'll check into it and if it is as you say WRT S/S & M/C I'll certainly say so and withdraw my comments about those adding to the US rate as a percent of GDP. The tables I looked at indicated otherwise but I'll have to find out why - I'm curious now as to why the data I saw showed otherwise but perhaps I misread it or was only looking at some sort of subset ... we'll see.

IAE, thank you and I'll get back to you anon. And your "guess" about me is quite wrong since 2005 figures would be workable even though preliminary (as are the BEA figures of that vintage). As I've said, though, I don't find this a critical issue to the FairTax because of the rate as the FairTax rate would be less and make the US burden even lower. In my view, the lower the better. And, yes, it is just a judgment as to the number one election issue. While you think your poll-driven information is (or should be) predominant, I disagree and think the FairTax should be the primary issue.

"You tell me to look something up which would solidify your argument, but then tell me you are not actually recommending it, presumably because it would weaken your argument against polls. Ok."

Nope, once again you've misstated. I merely told you there had been other polls that showed the FairTax as the top issue not that I was recommending them to you. If you wished to search them out for some reason that would certainly have been your prerogative.

"Then you get all upset when I "misinterpret" what you are saying, even though I repeat it verbatim, while at the same time you invent a host of things I said which cannot be found in any posts, and which would completely change the meaning of the conclusions I reached. Ok."

Ah, but that's just the point - you don't repeat it "verbatim" unless you do so while putting the "verbatim" within a context that makes it have quite a different different. And I told you that while the exact term, for example, of "live and die" by poll results may not have been used, that you made the meaning very clear from your posts that you were indeed emphasizing them that greatly. And, yes, certainly, that's my opinion of what you meant in many comments scattered throughput the thread. I believe it is something many people would also believe if they read all of your posts.

"Then you use the word "obsession" to describe an attempt to distinguish between polls (which you do not believe in), but refer to nonetheless. Ok."

Yes, quite. I believe you are obsessed with polls and polling techniques. I thought I made that clear. And I didn't "refer" to them but merely made allusion to them ... mentioned that they existed ... didn't say "these are 'to die for' polls that you must read" or that you even needed to look at them for any reason. But yes, certainly, you've made it quite clear for others to believe that you are poll-obsessed. Ands you seem unwilling to let go of the issue.

"Then you challenge my use of the word "judgment" as if it were some demonic reference, in spite of your "judgment" concerning the economy, the value of the Fair Tax, the real value of the FDR program to get the country back to work, the dangers of terrorism and Islam, and a host of other issues. At least my "judgment" on statistical sampling is supportable, while all of yours amount to mere speculation. But your "judgment" is somehow valid, while mine obviously is not.
A few specifics:
And there you go again with your old habit of pronouncing what is "reliable", "representative",etc. so that the rest or us ignorami know what to think.
Think whatever you will. Someone who has no concept of statistics may well say that 100 independent polls taken by professional organizations that reflect the same thing are no more valid or representative than a single person's response with no follow up. You know, even if you won't admit it that the former is more reliable and representative than the latter. Both terms are useful, and almost anyone would see that reliability is increased with more samples. Representative is a legitimate term if the poll was taken within the parameters I attempted to explain to you. Once done, it is incumbent on the critic to explain why it is not representative of the population as a whole, rather than just casting a cloak of disdain over all polls ever taken. But no matter the professionalism of the statistical entity or of the economic entity, somehow, you, with all of your knowledge and experience can simply blow them all off as meaningless. Sounds like a judgment without any support to me."

You are getting funnier than ever in your dotage. There's actually a large difference here. You judgments are offered (with or without statistical or other support) as guides that the entire country must needs follow. You state this with great certainly in your arrogance of assuming you are correct and lesser beings are not. What I have put forth on the issues of the FairTax , FDR, Islam, etc. were in fact offered as only my personal opinions and yet you continually claim that your judgments (opinions) are backed by this and that data and are somehow more meaningful. Nonsense; they're still only your personal opinions just as is the belief that polls are and should be preeminent in decision making. As for your attempt to belittle by "rating" my concept of statistics (as zero or other) - don't bother. I understand the subject well enough, thanks.

And good grief, stop trying to get me to say that yes, you're right, you 100,000 polls that all reflect the same thing (i.e.; agree) are more meaningful than anything else the anyone might uncover. Did I not already tell you my opinion of polls??? I would have sworn I did. And no, it is certainly not "incumbent on the critic" (as you so delicately put it in announcing once again the old "I'm right and you're wrong" unless you can prove otherwise ploy) to what is or is not representative - that your own poll-driven game, not mine. My opinion to not believe polls is certainly as valid as yours to believe them ... no matter how much that pains you. I'm certainly not your child so you can stop lecturing me and hectoring me about it. I'm perfectly happy that we continue to disagree about it. You don't seem to be.

"Just to be clear - yes it IS your mistake since I did not "recommend" any polls to you ... on this subject or any other.
Again my bad. You tell me how important the Fair Tax is and in the same breath, tell me there are lots of polls to support that....but then later tell me you are not recommending them. Ok."

No, not OK. I did not recommend "lots" (or any) polls to you but mentioned there were some showing the FairTax as the top issue. It is still "your bad" for trying to escape from your own misunderstanding.

On the pols using the polls or vice versa, I still think the polls in both cases were used to justify what the Dems had already decided to do - go after the "port issue" and ignore their fellow censure-monger since they probably had already made the political judgment that it wouldn't carry the day. You're welcome to think otherwise since you polls seem to determine what you think.

"Please spare me the patronizing attitude. The ice/stove example certainly fits what I was illustrating and is VERY relevant to the man whose hands are thus deployed.
Yes, looking back over a few of your "Fair Tax" threads, you would never appear patronizing! And if the silly example somehow proves the invalidity of statistical sampling to you, I submit a course in statistics would help you out a lot.
More of your patronizing - but it is nice to know you plan to look into he FairTax since it is presently apparent you know very little about it.
You are correct, I have little knowledge of the program, unlike you, you seem to have no need of learning anything at all. My hat's off to you sir.
Be sure and post on some of the active Tax Reform Threads when you've done so ... but please spare us the patronizing attitude.
Well, if I disagree with any of the underlying assumptions,calculations or projections, I will come with my flak jacket on, as I have seen how you "believers" treat anyone who raises any question about it."

Once more, the patronizing ... full steam ahead and pedal to the metal. Perhaps you should learn about the FairTax and join in some of the Tax Reform threads. If you do you'll notice that there are a good many shots fired in both directions but that generally (though not always)those opposing the FairTax fire first. Learning a bit would give you a better basis to understand what the Tax Reform discussion is all about and why many (polls notwithstanding) believe it certainly should be the number one issue for the election.

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