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Bill would bar doctors from asking about guns POLL TO FREEP AT LINK
The Virginian-Pilot ^ | February 23, 2006 | By JANETTE RODRIGUES,

Posted on 02/23/2006 6:47:11 AM PST by SWO

CHESAPEAKE - A pediatrician who asks a child's parent about firearms in their home could lose his or her license or be disciplined under legislation being considered by a Senate committee today.

The bill would prohibit health care professionals from asking a patient about gun possession, ownership or storage unless the patient is being treated for an injury related to guns or asks for safety counseling about them.

Sponsored by Del. Ward Armstrong, D-Martinsville, the bill sailed through the House by a vote of 88 to 11 last week. A message seeking comment was left for the delegate; he did not return the call.

The legislation is opposed by The Virginia Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics because it blocks a common practice by medical professionals to inquire about gun ownership and safety when they go over a safety checklist with parents during a child's regular checkups from birth to puberty.

"We saw the bill but presumed no one in their right mind would put it through," said Dr. Leslie Ellwood, chapter president. "We thought it was such an unusual bill that anyone with common sense wouldn't pass it."

The national group is closely watching the bill now.

Some local medical professionals are incensed by the bill and the rapid way it is moving through the General Assembly.

The bill also is opposed by several medical groups, including The Medic al Society of Virginia and nurse associations.

The National Rifle Association supports the bill because it will protect gun owners "from intrusive, unnecessary questions from medical professionals," according to the NRA Institute for Legislative Action Web site.

"We don't have an opinion or issue an opinion on guns," Ellwood said. "We don't say it is a bad thing to have around children. Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

The national pediatric group puts out a guide on safety counseling for pediatricians under its injury prevention program.

The state-endorsed guidelines are used by not just doctors and nurses but by others whose jobs involve children.

Medical professionals are encouraged to use the routine safety survey to counsel parents about everything from car safety seats and child-proofing a house and backyard pool to bicycle helmets and fire safety once the child reaches the appropriate age.

Pediatricians use the checklist to curtail preventable injuries, such as poisoning by household cleaning products, not to be intrusive, say Virginia physicians.

"The bill hits at the heart and core of prevention and protecting our children," said Dr. Nancy Welch, Chesapeake Health Department director. "I am just amazed that it has gone this far and seems to be flying under the radar."

A board-certified pediatrician, Welch e-mailed three committee members from the South Hampton Roads delegation after being notified about the Senate committee meeting today.

Sen. Harry Blevins, R-Chesapeake, has a policy of giving each bill a fair hearing before commenting on it, said his legislative assistant, Karen Papasodora-Cochrane.

Sen. Frederick Quayle, R-Chesapeake could not be reached for comment.

Sen. L. Louise Lucas, D-Portsmouth, said she thinks it's a bad bill.

"I don't know how it even got out of the House because a person who is practicing the healing arts, if they really have a child's safety in mind, would ask that question and others," she said.

If parents think the question is intrusive, Lucas said they can always tell the health care provider: "It's none of your business."

THE POLL TO DATE:

Should the state disallow pediatricians from asking parents about gun ownership?

Yes 49.25%

No 48.88%

Undecided 1.88% Total: 800 votes

Reach Janette Rodrigues at (757) 222-5208 or janette.rodrigues@pilotonline.com.

© 2006 HamptonRoads.com/PilotOnline.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; bigbrother; freep; gungrabbers; poll; surveillance; vageneralassembly; virginia
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More good work by the VCDL.
The POLL is at the LINK.
1 posted on 02/23/2006 6:47:13 AM PST by SWO
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To: SWO

Aww, I was kind of proud to check "Yes" on that question when I first took my daughter to the pediatrician.


2 posted on 02/23/2006 6:50:01 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: SWO

So right now you if you bring your kid in for an ear infection, you're asked if you own a gun? To what end? And if you lie and say no...are you committing some kind of crime? This is confusing.


3 posted on 02/23/2006 6:51:00 AM PST by Hildy (The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth)
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To: SWO

Guns? Sure, and we have a game where we spread them all over the floor, and the first kid to match up all the guns with the right ammunition gets to shoot somebody.


4 posted on 02/23/2006 6:52:06 AM PST by dsc
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To: SWO

"We don't have an opinion or issue an opinion on guns," Ellwood said. "We don't say it is a bad thing to have around children. Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

in otherwords we just want to control what you have in your home.


5 posted on 02/23/2006 6:52:41 AM PST by lakeman (when a marine kills the only thing he feels is the recoil of his rifle)
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To: antiRepublicrat

My six year old informed me last week that she wants a rifle for her birthday. I told her she'd have to wait until she's 9 or 10.


6 posted on 02/23/2006 6:52:47 AM PST by Squint (Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.)
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To: SWO
Shheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!!!!!

Another example of the government telling people how they can talk to other people.....

7 posted on 02/23/2006 6:53:33 AM PST by Onelifetogive (* Sarcasm tag ALWAYS required. For some FReepers, sarcasm can NEVER be obvious enough.)
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To: antiRepublicrat

I was happy to open my coat and show her.


8 posted on 02/23/2006 6:54:13 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com ("If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth!")
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To: SWO

I have mixed feelings about this law. One one hand, it is an effort to counter the idea that gun ownership is a "health" issue, another tactic by which the gun-grabbers seek to marginalize gun ownership and legitimize further restrictions on ownership. To that extent, I sympathize with the law. On the other hand, it criminalizes the mere asking of a question, and to that extent reminds me of ominous trends in Left-wing legislation, such as laws prohibiting landlords from asking certain questions of prospective tenants. So this cuts both ways, in my opinion.


9 posted on 02/23/2006 6:54:28 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: dsc

lol


10 posted on 02/23/2006 6:55:08 AM PST by Kimmers
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To: SWO

The odds of a child dying in your swimming pool are 100 times greater than dying from a gun.

Will the Docs ask about swimming pools, or are they just guilt mongers for the politically correct?


11 posted on 02/23/2006 6:55:45 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (The Prophet Muhammed, Piss Be Upon Him)
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To: Aussie Dasher; backinthefold; bayourant; birbear; BJClinton; brf1; Da Mav; ER Doc; ferri; ...
Poorly written question. Read carefully. FREEP THIS POLL ***PING!*** FRmail me and gordongekko909 if you want to be added or removed from the Freep this Poll! Ping list. And be sure to ping me to any polls that need Freepin', if I miss them. (looks like a medium volume list) Image hosting by Photobucket
12 posted on 02/23/2006 6:56:09 AM PST by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: SWO

We need a law for this? What happened to the ability to say "why is that any of your business?"


13 posted on 02/23/2006 6:58:34 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (Justice and "The Law" are not always the same thing.)
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To: Steve_Seattle
As I recall, there was an organized lobbying effort by one of the pediatricians associations which brought about these questions as a supporting process for their anti-gun political position. They weren't asking about storage of chainsaws or of baseball bats or kitchen knives, they were only asking about guns.

The policy was designed on their part to make it difficult for gun owners in some small way, it had nothing to do with safety.

Personally I'm glad to see it go.

14 posted on 02/23/2006 6:59:29 AM PST by tcostell
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To: SWO

If the medical professionals had their way, we'd all be in superb health doing our state mandated exercise regimen in our straight jackets, protected from dangerous objects and harmful behaviors. If history is any indication, doctors and social engineering make a bad mix.


15 posted on 02/23/2006 7:00:17 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: SWO

Given that medical records are going to be computerized and follow you around all your life, and given that health care could be taken over by the government and given that employers are now using health care information as an excuse to harass workers, be careful what you tell doctors about the legal activity of your personal life.

What business is it of a doctor to know whether or not you own a gun? There are a lot of nosey p.c. questions now asked by doctors that is none of their business.


16 posted on 02/23/2006 7:02:47 AM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: SWO
This is a bad bill and violates the principal of free speech.

Supporting the state mandating how an individual must practice his craft, and what he can and can't say - can cut both ways. Witness phamacists in MA being required to carry kill pills.

Either you stand for free speech or you don't and must accept majority rule setting limits or mandates on what you must say.

An outside issue is related to abortions, because state interest in protecting people from being killed, the state doing a really lame ass job of trying to prevent it by requiring information be shared is a reasonable temporary half-measure.

17 posted on 02/23/2006 7:03:21 AM PST by mbraynard (I don't even HAVE a mustache!)
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To: SWO

I've been asked this by my children's pediatrician as well as my endocrinologist. With my children's doc, I just replied that I refuse to answer the question. I was pressed by a nurse once and simply told her it was none of their business.

My endocrinologist asked me this on a patient information sheet. I just wrote a note that said "I fail to see how this pertains to the treatment of my thyroid."


18 posted on 02/23/2006 7:03:50 AM PST by Juana la Loca
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To: Hildy

I think the first reponse to such a question should be "Beg pardon?"

Then if they repeat the question, ask how this could have any possible relevance to the current medical situation.

If they come back with some nonsense about their being concerned for childrens' safety, just look at them like they're an idiot (a response that should be coming up naturally) until they more onto another question.

Prompt them with "Are there any relevant questions you'd like to ask?" if necessary.


19 posted on 02/23/2006 7:04:42 AM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: Squint

Get her a Red Rider and be sure she learns to treat it like she would a real gun.


20 posted on 02/23/2006 7:05:04 AM PST by mbraynard (I don't even HAVE a mustache!)
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To: Hildy
So right now you if you bring your kid in for an ear infection, you're asked if you own a gun? To what end? And if you lie and say no...are you committing some kind of crime? This is confusing.

My sister and her 12 year old son recently moved into my home after her recent divorce. Her son came down with an ear infection and had to go to the Dr and because I was off that day, I took him to see the DR. Within three minutes I got the gun questions. Do you have guns in your home? How many guns do you have? How are they stored? Do they have gunlocks on them?
21 posted on 02/23/2006 7:05:31 AM PST by Timedrifter
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To: dynachrome
..proper gun control, I see....Hunting for Fido? :^)
22 posted on 02/23/2006 7:05:48 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
I was happy to open my coat and show her.

"Excuse me while I whip this out."

23 posted on 02/23/2006 7:06:38 AM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: dynachrome
Poll Results

Should the state disallow pediatricians from asking parents about gun ownership?


24 posted on 02/23/2006 7:06:43 AM PST by BJClinton (Let slip the Viking Kittens!)
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To: Squint

You've taught her well!


25 posted on 02/23/2006 7:08:50 AM PST by sarasota
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To: SWO

I always just say no. But if they're asking kids that's different.


26 posted on 02/23/2006 7:08:51 AM PST by n230099
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
Because to the questioning physician "why is that any of your business?" equals "Yes I do, and I keep them loaded".

The only time I was asked this question, I refused to answer it. I later saw the doctor's checklist, and she had marked "Yes". Why she needed that on record-especially because it was already established that I DON'T have kids-I can only imagine.

27 posted on 02/23/2006 7:09:31 AM PST by jboot (Faith is not a work)
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To: SWO


And here I thought the left cared about privacy.


28 posted on 02/23/2006 7:10:49 AM PST by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President!)
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To: Hildy
So right now you if you bring your kid in for an ear infection, you're asked if you own a gun? To what end? And if you lie and say no...are you committing some kind of crime?
 
My son has born with apnea, and was in the NICU for several days. Hubby and I opted out of circumcision because we felt he had been through enough in his first few days. Fast forward to 2 years old, and he is showing signs of being Autistic, and I cannot "clean" him properly, I took him to the pediatrician and the dr asked me "Do you smoke?" What? like smoking would give him an infection on his willie? I never saw that doctor again, and complained to the senior doctor in the practice about the comment. We did have to have him circumcised a few months later, because dealing with his disability was too difficult.
 My son didn't mind, he just kept asking everyone if they wanted to see his boo-boo :)
 
Asking about what goes on in the house, to me, if put in proper context is acceptable. First visit or a yearly checkup type of visit. In my story, I was offended because I felt the doctor was accusing me of giving my son an infection solely on the fact I smoke.

29 posted on 02/23/2006 7:11:51 AM PST by backinthefold (Fat teddy does NOT have man boobs, please refer to them correctly as Moobs)
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To: mbraynard

Didn't realize Red Riders are still being made. Thanks for the info.


30 posted on 02/23/2006 7:13:36 AM PST by sarasota
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

Shoulder holster? (;o)


31 posted on 02/23/2006 7:14:18 AM PST by sarasota
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To: SWO
No need to pass a law. Just have your physician fill out this simple form:

PHYSICIAN OR EDUCATOR QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY

FIREARMS SAFETY COUNSELING REPRESENTATION:
PHYSICIAN QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY

Part One: Qualifications

I affirm that I am certified to offer
(Name of Patient:__________________________________________________ ),
herineafter referred to as "the Patient", qualified advice about firearms safety in the home, having received:

Specify Course(s) of Study:
_____________________________________________________________ from:
Specify Institution(s)
__________________________________________________________________ on:
Specify Course Completion Date(s):
______________________________________________________ resulting in:
Specify Accreditation(s), Certification(s), License(s) etc.:
_______________________________________

Check one, as appropriate:
___ I represent that I have reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership. I further represent that I have reviewed all other relevant home safety issues with the Patient, including those relating to electricity, drains, disposals, compactors, garage doors, driveway safety, pool safety, pool fence codes and special locks for pool gates, auto safety, gas, broken glass, stored cleaning chemicals, buckets, toilets, sharp objects, garden tools, home tools, power tools, lawnmowers, lawn chemicals, scissors, needles, forks, knives, etc. I also acknowledge, by receiving this document, I have been made aware that, in his inaugural address before the American Medical Association on June 20, 2001, new president Richard Corlin, MD, admitted "What we don't know about violence and guns is literally killing us...researchers do not have the data to tell how kids get guns, if trigger locks work, what the warning signs of violence in schools and at the workplace are and other critical questions due to lack of research funding." (UPI). In spite of this admission, I represent that I have sufficient data and expertise to provide expert and clinically sound advice to patients regarding firearms in the home.

OR
___ I am knowingly engaging in Home/Firearms Safety Counseling without certification, license or formal training in Risk Management, and; I have not reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership.

Part Two:
Liability

I have determined, from a review of my medical malpractice insurance, that if I engage in an activity for which I am not certified, such as Firearms Safety Counseling, the carrier (check one, as appropriate):
___ will
___ will not
cover lawsuits resulting from neglect, lack of qualification, etc.

Insurance Carrier name, address and policy number insuring me for firearms safety expertise:
____________________________________________________________________________________

I further warrant that, should the Patient follow my firearm safety counseling and remove from the home and/or disable firearms with trigger locks or other mechanisms, and if the patient or a family member, friend or visitor is subsequently injured or killed as a result of said removal or disabling, that my malpractice insurance and/or personal assets will cover all actual and punitive damages resulting from a lawsuit initiated by the patient, the patient's legal reprerentative, or the patient's survivors.

Signature of attesting physician and date:
___________________________________________________
Name of attesting physician (please print):
__________________________________________________

Signature of patient and date:
____________________________________________________________
Name of patient (please print):
____________________________________________________________

Note to patient: Indicate if physician "REFUSED TO SIGN." Ask physician to place copy in chart/medical record.



Risk Management Advice to Physicians and Malpractice Insurance Providers: Don't Borrow Trouble
© 2000 by Joe Horn crowtalk@theriver.com

32 posted on 02/23/2006 7:15:14 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: dsc

ROFL!


33 posted on 02/23/2006 7:16:45 AM PST by BBT
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To: jboot

Then change doctors, tell them why and make a report to the Medical association saying they have included knowingly false information in your file.


34 posted on 02/23/2006 7:22:07 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (Justice and "The Law" are not always the same thing.)
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To: jboot

While at the doctor with my daughter, we got the form asking about guns.I threw the form in the trash. The receptionist noted that I didn't have the form and went to pull another one. I said "I'll throw that one away.too". She looked at me like I had two heads. "Why won't you fill out the form?" "Because its none of your business. We're here for a vaccination".

A few years later, I had my teenage son in for an ingrown toenail. He was old enough to fill in his own forms. He would make funny noises while filling out a form. When the doc came in to remove his toenail, he asked him "What does all this stuff have to do with my toe?" The guy looked at the form, smiled, then slipped it in the trash.


35 posted on 02/23/2006 7:32:11 AM PST by chadwimc
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To: SWO

I'm glad my kids' pediatrician is a conservative and my personal doctor has hunting magazines in the waiting room. If your doctor is a gun banning lib, get another doctor. (I know, when your kid is sick that, interviewing a doctor is a low priority).


36 posted on 02/23/2006 7:36:59 AM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: SWO

As much as I despise gun control laws, I don't see a problem with this. The doctors aren't trying to be politically corect gun grabbers. They want to help parents to be aware of fire arms safety so the doctor doesn't have to work on the kids in the ER because someone wasn't practicing good fire arms safety in their home. Most people are responsible, but some may be ignorant things that would reduce the likelihood of their kids getting hurt by accident. The doctors are only trying to prevent harm and aren't out to take away anyone's guns. It's like asking if the cleaning chemicals are safely stored or if perscription medication is sitting out in the open where little kids might get a hold of it. Things like that.


37 posted on 02/23/2006 7:41:31 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: SWO
"We don't have an opinion or issue an opinion on guns," Ellwood said. "We don't say it is a bad thing to have around children. Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

I'll take my safety counseling on firearms from the NRA, not the AMA - thank you very much.

38 posted on 02/23/2006 7:42:55 AM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: mbraynard

Nah, get her an actual spring piston pellet rifle, maybe a Gamo. My dad got me one when I was six, and when I asked him, why a air rifle, why not a bb gun, he told me, "Dan, if you're gonna learn to shoot, you might as well be able to hit what you shoot at." If you're going to teach your kids to shoot, get them an accurate gun.


39 posted on 02/23/2006 7:43:31 AM PST by stan the beaver (We will kill the ones who eat us, and eat the ones we kill!!)
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To: Galveston Grl
What business is it of a doctor to know whether or not you own a gun? There are a lot of nosey p.c. questions now asked by doctors that is none of their business.

Then maybe the doctors should reviiew gun safety with every patient on every visit. THat way, the doctors don't need ask and just provide information to specific patients. Everyone can hear the speel and make a 5 min visit into 15.

40 posted on 02/23/2006 7:43:37 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: SWO

Should the state disallow pediatricians from asking parents about gun ownership?



Yes
50.04%

No
47.84%

Undecided
2.13%

Total: 1363 votes


41 posted on 02/23/2006 7:44:31 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SWO
They do this in IL now.

When our oldest daughter took her 1st child in (about four years ago) the Pediatrician asked the gun question. Our daughter was somewhat taken aback but told the truth and said no.

However, it's a good thing the Doc didn't ask about Samurai Swords, 'Ninja' and assorted edged weapons, as our S-I-L has a boat load of those. To paraphrase Beatrix Kiddo (the Bride) in Kill Bill Vol 2,

"He is proficient in the exquisite art of the Samurai Sword."

Needless to say we get along just fine. No wussies for my daughters :-)

42 posted on 02/23/2006 7:45:40 AM PST by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: Juana la Loca

Good for you. It's none of their business.


43 posted on 02/23/2006 7:47:08 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SWO

The first doctor that asks me that invasive question will receive a double-barrelled answer, "That is NONE of your G-d damned business!". Then I will abruptly leave and find another doctor.


44 posted on 02/23/2006 7:55:55 AM PST by TexasRepublic (North American distributor for Mohammed Urinals. Franchises available.)
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To: sarasota; stan the beaver
http://www.daisy.com/shopping/customer/product.php?productid=16141&cat=249&page=1

Same dang gun - 1938 Red Rider.

The other guy said go with an airgun, but this is an airgun.

45 posted on 02/23/2006 8:02:03 AM PST by mbraynard (I don't even HAVE a mustache!)
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To: Timedrifter

"My sister and her 12 year old son recently moved into my home after her recent divorce. Her son came down with an ear infection and had to go to the Dr and because I was off that day, I took him to see the DR. Within three minutes I got the gun questions. Do you have guns in your home? How many guns do you have? How are they stored? Do they have gunlocks on them?"

Answer:

Don't worry, juinior's been carefully trained to only shoot nosy people.


46 posted on 02/23/2006 8:03:02 AM PST by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: mbraynard

Thanks for the link. My brother (in his 60's) was lamenting the fact that he gave up his original Red Ryder so I'm going to get him one!


47 posted on 02/23/2006 8:03:27 AM PST by sarasota
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
"I was happy to open my coat and show her."

Heh heh heh. Then did you have to pick her up off the floor?

48 posted on 02/23/2006 8:03:37 AM PST by Designer (Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
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To: robertpaulsen
Risk Management Advice to Physicians and Malpractice Insurance Providers: Don't Borrow Trouble © 2000 by Joe Horn crowtalk@theriver.com

That is great! Thanks!

49 posted on 02/23/2006 8:06:50 AM PST by Designer (Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
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To: mbraynard

No, skip the Red Ryder. Spend $10.00 more and get a Daisy Grizzly. It has a much smoother trigger. Then push gun safety.

BTW, my doctor knows I have guns ever since I had to be treated for bad powder burns after a real wierd misfire. (don't ask, but I'll blame it on bad ammo)

All he said was "Well, now you've got a good story."


50 posted on 02/23/2006 8:07:06 AM PST by cyclotic (Cub Scouts-Teach 'em young to be men, and politically incorrect in the process)
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