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Teacher defends "Santa" remarks (Full, unedited statement)
Lebanon Daily News ^ | 12/23/05 | Theresa R. Farrisi

Posted on 12/26/2005 8:11:14 AM PST by Conservatrix

To the Editor:

"Last week I substituted at a local elementary school in Lebanon County. The lesson plan required me to read the 1882 poem “The Night Before Christmas” by Clement Clarke Moore to two classes of students. While I can appreciate the poem for its literary value, the subject matter is offensive to me, and the reading of this poem to the children imposed values upon me which are against my deeply held religious beliefs. I could not in good conscience present the notion of Santa Claus as a truth to the children, and stated so.

No public school teacher should be required to teach a belief, or custom, or religion that he or she believes to be false, or be required to pass those purported falsehoods onto impressionable children, without the right to state a disclaimer. Furthermore, freedom of speech and religion, no matter how unpopular the speech or against cultural norms the religion, are protected rights under the Constitution of the United States. A secular public school should not be propagating any kind of religion. The belief in Santa Claus as a divine, magical, omniscient, powerful, giving, loving father-figure, to which children are taught to make supplications and requests, is a religion indeed-- a distorted substitute for the Judeo-Christian God; a false form of Christianity; a zealously-protected American idol.

In presenting the poem, I gave the children quick historical background about the Santa Claus myth-- its evolution from the historic Nickolaus, Bishop of Myrna in Asia Minor, who died in 343 A.D., to its amalgamation with ancient Western pagan traditions of German, Scandinavian and Dutch origins, to the current manifestation in the secular Christmas culture of today. (Dutch children, for example, would put their wooden shoes out at night for “Sante Klaus” to fill with candies.)

The current Santa Claus figure was popularized in the late 19th Century by artist Thomas Nast of Harper’s Weekly Magazine, who depicted “Saint Nick,” not as an elf, but a rotund, pipe-smoking man in a red and white suit. This is the deity to which countless public school children today are taught to make supplications, and about whom they sing their many songs at annual public school Christmas programs.

If people are upset about the revelation to children that Santa Claus is a myth-- which all children who are taught this lie find or figure out eventually-- perhaps it is because Santa is that zealously-guarded idol of their own modern religion. Therefore, as a religion, let Santa be kept out of the public school classroom (no more “Dear Santa” letters to line those school hallways)--or perhaps, in the interest of “diversity,” make his mythical, oversized personage share equal representation in literature, and song, and Christmas programs, with the other Person of the season: the Lord Jesus Christ, God made flesh, God with us."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: absolutelywackaloon; allaboutme; badsanta; bahhumbug; bundleofjoy; campuscommies; campusradicals; christianity; coalinyoursock; crankymeanie; devilwearsredtoo; elohim; elvesinhell; feminazis; getalife; harridan; hormoneswouldhelp; leadpipes; mentalmidget; miserablewretch; needsagoodscrooge; nogiftsforyou; nutcaketeacher; nutjob; oldnickstnick; piousposer; pontificatrix; publicschools; religion; santa; santamyth; santasatan; satanclaus; scroogette; shrew; sourpuss; teacher; teacherfromhell; toobadkids; waronchristmas; waronpaganism; wheresmymartyrdom; xanthippe; xmastaliban
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To: Conservatrix

And to some people healing on the Sabbath was a sin.


151 posted on 12/26/2005 9:19:07 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat (Thou shalt not snipe hunt)
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To: mcg1969

"Obviously you have no interest in a defense of the dissenting point of view. What a prideful shame."


I think rather that is the state of most of the opinions on this thread so far.


152 posted on 12/26/2005 9:19:10 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Reaganesque; All
Below is the "offensive" poem.

THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS
by Clement Clarke Moore

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house

Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse;

The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,

In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there;

The children were nestled all snug in their beds,

While visions of sugar-plums danced in their heads;

And mamma in her 'kerchief, and I in my cap,

Had just settled down for a long winter's nap,

When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,

I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.

Away to the window I flew like a flash,

Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow

Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below,

When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,

But a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer,

With a little old driver, so lively and quick,

I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.

More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,

And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, Dasher! now, Dancer! now, Prancer and Vixen!

On, Comet! on Cupid! on, Donder and Blitzen!

To the top of the porch! to the top of the wall!

Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"

As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,

When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky,

So up to the house-top the coursers they flew,

With the sleigh full of toys, and St. Nicholas too.

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof

The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.

As I drew in my hand, and was turning around,

Down the chimney St. Nicholas came with a bound.

He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,

And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;

A bundle of toys he had flung on his back,

And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.

His eyes -- how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!

His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!

His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,

And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;

The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,

And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;

He had a broad face and a little round belly,

That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly.

He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,

And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;

A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,

Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,

And filled all the stockings; then turned with a jerk,

And laying his finger aside of his nose,

And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose;

He sprang to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,

And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.

But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight,

"Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good-night."

LINK

153 posted on 12/26/2005 9:19:35 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Krankor

Looks like Santa should pay her a little visit...lol.


154 posted on 12/26/2005 9:19:50 AM PST by chemicalman (Many have skeletons in their closets. In New Orleans, we have skeletons in our attics.)
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To: mcg1969

You sound like the kind of person who would have raised his hand at the Last Supper, when Jesus declared "I am the true vine", and said, "Uh, no, Jesus, I must correct you: you are a human being, and you are God, but you are most certainly not a vine."


Jesus is the true vine. I love Him and am not ashamed to call Him my Lord and my God.


155 posted on 12/26/2005 9:20:07 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Conservatrix

No, it sounds like a FANTASY. There's a difference.


156 posted on 12/26/2005 9:20:15 AM PST by mcg1969
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Comment #157 Removed by Moderator

To: Eric in the Ozarks

She reminds me of the Maureen O'Hara character in "Miracle on 34th Street".


158 posted on 12/26/2005 9:20:47 AM PST by midnightson (Mama-the ultimate prognosticator- said there'd be days like this.)
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To: Conservatrix
I can solve your problem. Well, at least one of your problems. As I lack a degree in Psychiatry I'm not competent to deal with your other problems.

I can however solve your little Satan Claus dillema.

Ready?

QUIT YOUR JOB AS A PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER!

Then you won't be exposed to all this stuff you find so offensive. You can find a bunch of like minded whackjobs and start your own school.

See how easy that was?

This one's on me honey.

L

159 posted on 12/26/2005 9:20:59 AM PST by Lurker (Let everything that's to be done be done by the herd.)
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To: Conservatrix
I think rather that is the state of most of the opinions on this thread so far.

So you're in good company then.

160 posted on 12/26/2005 9:20:59 AM PST by mcg1969
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To: Sister_T

The commercial use of Santa Claus is at the heart of it. "The Night before Christmas" has nothing to do with Christianity, nor with the reason Christmas is celebrated.

Never thought I'd find myself agreeing with an atheist but HERE! HERE! And AMEN to that!


I agree, also!!


161 posted on 12/26/2005 9:21:09 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Conservatrix
I love Him and am not ashamed to call Him my Lord and my God.

Nor am I. But he is most certainly not a "vine". Why do you insist on saying so?

162 posted on 12/26/2005 9:21:45 AM PST by mcg1969
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To: Egon

If you say so. To me, it sounds more like folks are upset that she told kids that Santa was a myth.


163 posted on 12/26/2005 9:22:29 AM PST by Sister_T (Kenneth Blackwell for Governor of Ohio!)
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To: Diddle E. Squat

And to some people healing on the Sabbath was a sin.


And a little but of dancing around the goldne calf was okay until Moses cam down from the mountain!


164 posted on 12/26/2005 9:23:12 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Conservatrix

Big sigh. Santa isn't a god. He's a myth. You said so, yourself.


165 posted on 12/26/2005 9:23:57 AM PST by hershey
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To: jigsaw

"I would never have agreed to speak to this reporter at all,
had I known that your paper would distort both my words and
its intentions about the use of my words."

Welcome to presstitution, Dear Teacher.

Such misrepresentation and lying by MediaPersons is now the norm in the journalism field, ever since the Columbia University School of Journalism accepted the legitimacy of "advocacy journalism".


166 posted on 12/26/2005 9:24:44 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: Conservatrix

Just curious, are you Theresa R. Farrisi?

Either way, I think you (and her, if different persons) are probably well-meaning and a good person/parent. Having lived in that area and attended a conservative Christian church, we may have even met before. The zealousness for Christ and trying to live as pure and honest a life is admirable, but in this case the zeal may have been taken too far, and the wrong battle fought that undermines credibility and the message instead of spreading it.


167 posted on 12/26/2005 9:25:12 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat (Thou shalt not snipe hunt)
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To: hershey

Big sigh. Santa isn't a god. He's a myth. You said so, yourself.


That is how the teacher taught it, as a myth.
So why is everyone so upset about the truth?
Unless, of course, Santa IS a religious figure...


168 posted on 12/26/2005 9:25:16 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: picturebell

"gee, maybe these kids weren't as mature as you were.... I am sure that whatever is good for you is good for other people's 6 year olds.... typical bitter, cynical self-righteous a-holes.... "

OK. You've convinced me. Christmas is the story of Santa Claus, who lives at the North Pole. Once a year he brings presents to all boys and girls who have been good. He comes in a sleigh, pulled by flying reindeer.

If you believe in him, and ask him for things, he will bring them to you, but you have to be a good child. No fighting. No other bad behavior, either. Those are sins, and you'll be punished by not getting any toys.

Now I understand the true meaning of Christmas. Thanks for clearing that up for me. All those Santa stories are really true, and should be read as scripture.

So what's all this stuff about Jesus? If Santa's really the reason for Christmas, and the stories about him should be taught to young children, I don't get the Jesus thing. Does Jesus bring presents on Christmas? Does He have a sleigh and flying reindeer? If I send Jesus a list of toys I want, will I get them? No?

Heck, I'll stick with Santa then.


169 posted on 12/26/2005 9:25:37 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Conservatrix
Many to you these are small thing that aren't important but to some who love Jesus with their whole hearts, an idol is an idol, not matter how accepted culturally.

Well, apparently, God has a different message for me than He has for you when I've prayed about this issue.

My faith allows the two to co-exist. In the end, the reality wins out, the fantasy doesn't.

I have no problem with you discussing this with me in this fashion. Nor is problem with you in our differences in faith, it is in your deciding not just to refuse to perpetuate the myth, but in actively undermining my responsibility as a parent and dispelling the myth.

170 posted on 12/26/2005 9:27:22 AM PST by Egon (I don't want edible meat, I want edible animals. - CygnusXI)
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To: G.Mason

Thank you G.Mason...Merry Christmas to you too!


171 posted on 12/26/2005 9:27:37 AM PST by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are great!)
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To: mcg1969

You might want to check this verse. Seems that Jesus himself said that he was the true vine. It's interesting what you learn when you study the Bible, instead of just listening to preachers or just claiming to be a Christian based on nothing but a few verses:

"JOHN 15
1 I am the true VINE, and my Father is the husbandman.
"


172 posted on 12/26/2005 9:28:08 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: abclily
"Here is the substance of her ignorance: Not knowing or caring about the emotions of young children. Pure ignorance. And a bit sadistic besides."

Yes, I don't think she was really concerned about the children. It sounded like she was overly concerned with herself, IMHO. The amount of "I's" and "Me's" in her statement showed her own narcissistic temperament.
173 posted on 12/26/2005 9:29:15 AM PST by khnyny (Merry Christmas)
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To: Sister_T; Conservatrix
Never thought I'd find myself agreeing with an atheist but HERE! HERE! And AMEN to that!

Do you also agree, then, that it is appropriate for a substitute teacher to announce to children that their PARENTS have been lying to them?

This is another example of the schools usurping the authority of the parents. It is the responsibility of the parents who tell their children about Santa Claus to decide the appropriate time and place and way to tell their children the truth.

"Educators" are increasingly attempting to replace the role of parents, and this substitute, did the same thing liberal academics have been doing for decades.

174 posted on 12/26/2005 9:29:20 AM PST by SittinYonder (That's how I saw it, and see it still.)
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To: MineralMan

JOHN 15
1 I am the true VINE, and my Father is the husbandman."


I believe that. My faith in Jesus is based on much more than a "few statements."

BTW what does this have to do with the main point of this thread, Santa Claus and public school?


175 posted on 12/26/2005 9:29:32 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: MineralMan
MineralMan, I am quite aware of that verse, thanks. You are missing my point, which is that Jesus is NOT, in fact, a vine, even though he says he is. So why do you think he did so? Why do you think he said something that is not, in fact, true?
176 posted on 12/26/2005 9:30:02 AM PST by mcg1969
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To: Conservatrix

I have no idea. The topic has strayed, as usual...


177 posted on 12/26/2005 9:30:26 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan; All
How many six year olds do you suppose still believe that Santa Claus is a real figure?

I have a six year-old and a ten year-old, and they both love to get excited about Santa coming at Christmas. It's part of the fun. At some deep level, they understand the truth. They can sense that fundamentally, Mommy feels very different about "helping Santa" by buying gifts, than she does about Jesus Christ.

This teacher was completely out of line, she stole something important from both the children and their parents.

btw, I love the keywords on this thread. Bah humbug, indeed.

178 posted on 12/26/2005 9:30:28 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: Sister_T

Amen Sister!


179 posted on 12/26/2005 9:30:45 AM PST by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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Comment #180 Removed by Moderator

To: khnyny

"Yes, I don't think she was really concerned about the children. It sounded like she was overly concerned with herself, IMHO."

"No public school teacher should be required to teach a belief, or custom, or religion that he or she believes to be false, or be required to pass those purported falsehoods onto impressionable children, without the right to state a disclaimer."

Sounds like caring about them a great deal.


181 posted on 12/26/2005 9:31:00 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: hershey
She was working as a SUBSTITUTE teacher and was supposed to follow the instructions left by the children's teacher, who did NOT include that she add her own views/comment/beliefs/ re the Santa poem to these 1st graders.

SHE chose NOT to follow the teacher's exact instruction...to read the poem..period.

Conclusion: Memo to principal: Strike her name from your substitute list and note that she is officious and unreliable in following instructions.

182 posted on 12/26/2005 9:31:02 AM PST by Carolinamom (Winter is in my head , but eternal spring is in my heart. ---Victor Hugo)
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To: Northern Yankee
Her duty as a substitute teacher is to follow the lesson plans given.

Exactly.

183 posted on 12/26/2005 9:31:14 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: Conservatrix
Just to be clear, I believe in the truth of 1 John 15:1 just as you do.

My point is this. Jesus is not, in fact, a vine. He never has been, and never was. But he said he was a vine; the true vine, in fact.

So why did he say that? Why did he say something that is not, in fact, true?

184 posted on 12/26/2005 9:31:23 AM PST by mcg1969
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To: proud American in Canada

"Mommy feels very different about "helping Santa" by buying gifts, than she does about Jesus Christ."

For you that is probably true.


185 posted on 12/26/2005 9:31:55 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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Comment #186 Removed by Moderator

To: Conservatrix
"I think if a person has the courage to stand up to what they belive, that is admirable. The story is about being forced to teach something against one's religous beliefs in a secular school. Why would any Christian want to teach their children that some guy in a red suit who smokes a pipe is the one who anwers their prayers, gives them their presents on Christmas, and rewards their deeds because he sees them and hears them all the time?"

Do I think someone should be forced to teach something that they do not believe in? No. But...that is NOT what this story is about. If that was what the story was about...it would have went like this: Substitute Teacher Fired after failing to read Poem.

That was Not the story. The story was about how she decided to turn the teacher's desk into a pulpit and use it to trump the parent's wishes in regards to their child. If you want to get angry about something...get angry at her for stomping on THEIR rights. She had the right to be persecuted by the world (which is what our Lord calls for) by refusing to not read the story. She did not have the right to pontificate and turn the desk into a pulpit. I am an evangelical minister...and even I can see how wrong that was. I have preached in the past to children's camps where the children were at the camp and I preached to them...but they were not there listening to my words without the knowledge of their parents. Now...do you REALLY think the parents had NO RIGHT or no say in this? As a parent...I think they have every right. She was wrong. She was right to not read it if it violated her conscious. IF it cost her her job...then that is the price of Christianity. She gave up her reward when she turned that desk into a pulpit and made a decision for those who could not make it.

She is no Hero.

And on this Christmas season...if you REALLY want to examine things that don't belong in celebration of our Lord's birth...I believe Santa is the least of your worries. The early church had no birthday party for Jesus. If you want to examine Easter traditions you will be sorely disappointed there too. Matter of fact...if you want historica Christianity...and would only want to celebrate Christmas and Easter the way the Apostles and Early church fathers did...Santa is not the only thing you would be missing. So... I say if the lady did anything on December 25th she is a hypocrite because the early church certainly didn't. Be real in all of it...or don't judge others for the little bit of fun they've added.

187 posted on 12/26/2005 9:32:24 AM PST by NELSON111
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To: Conservatrix

The teacher didn't have to present "The Night Before Christmas" as factual truth, but merely a beloved holiday poem. Teaching how America celebrates Christmas doesn't have to be a line drawn in the sand and the teacher behind a defensive bunker. If the teacher discussed Kwanza, would she give the complete history and criminal record of the man who started it? In the matter of truth, of course. And let's say her class contained a number of small black children.


188 posted on 12/26/2005 9:32:25 AM PST by hershey
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To: proud American in Canada

"The lesson plan required me to read the 1882 poem “The Night Before Christmas” by Clement Clarke Moore to two classes of students. While I can appreciate the poem for its literary value, the subject matter is offensive to me, and the reading of this poem to the children imposed values upon me which are against my deeply held religious beliefs. I could not in good conscience present the notion of Santa Claus as a truth to the children, and stated so."


189 posted on 12/26/2005 9:32:32 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Conservatrix
And a little but of dancing around the golden calf was okay until Moses cam down from the mountain!

But the golden calf was created and then worshipped by some because those at the base of the mountain had begun to doubt both Moses and (more importantly) God. No one I know tells the story of Santa and joins in the game to show that they doubt God. They do it for fun, not seriousness. You are reading way too much into the Santa game. When we play Monopoly we pretend to be someone most of us are not (wheeling-dealing developers.) When we act in a play we pretend to be someone we are not, as a way to tell a story for entertainment or illustration. Are we liars we do those things? Are we doing them out of doubt of God and seeking a substitute to him? Of course not, it is just entertainment. Sometimes we do things simply for fun, with no deep meaning.

190 posted on 12/26/2005 9:33:26 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat (Thou shalt not snipe hunt)
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To: hershey

If the teacher discussed Kwanza, would she give the complete history and criminal record of the man who started it? In the matter of truth, of course. And let's say her class contained a number of small black children.


She probably would mention that it was a holiday made up by a man in recent years...


191 posted on 12/26/2005 9:33:33 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: mcg1969

"MineralMan, I am quite aware of that verse, thanks. You are missing my point, which is that Jesus is NOT, in fact, a vine, even though he says he is. So why do you think he did so? Why do you think he said something that is not, in fact, true?"




Parables. Jesus taught in parables. Santa is not Jesus. Santa is a myth. "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" is a secular poem designed to promote Christmas as a commercial holiday.

For Christians, Jesus is not a myth. For everyone, Santa is a myth. Yet, the Santa stories are taught to children as if Santa were a god, fulfilling wishes, flying through the air, punishing bad children, and all that sort of diety kind of thing.

But, hey...that's OK. I like Santa. Let's just replace Jesus with Santa and have a Merry Christmas in the stores.


192 posted on 12/26/2005 9:33:35 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Sister_T
To me, it sounds more like folks are upset that she told kids that Santa was a myth

The problem was that she is a lousy teacher. Leaving subtle hints that the story may not be true is one thing. However, several children went home crying because she convinced them that Santa Clause was dead. She was clearly operating above her pay grade.

193 posted on 12/26/2005 9:34:09 AM PST by RGSpincich
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To: Paisan

"...How does a 6 year old grasp the Resurrection or the Holy Trinity? What do they know of life and death? Santa Claus is our culture's transition point for young minds to appreciate gifts and giving. In my faith, children are ready to make the decision to be baptised at the age of 13. Similarly, in the Jewish faith, young men are Bar Mitzvahed at 13. NOT before. Is there are reason that they wait so long for this? I believe so. But until then, Santa is just fine."

Well put. Teachers should have some understanding of children and their various mental/psycholgical developmental stages. Catholics are confirmed at around the age of 12/13 too. In part, it is seen as a developmental rite of passage.


194 posted on 12/26/2005 9:34:15 AM PST by khnyny (Merry Christmas)
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To: hershey

"The teacher didn't have to present "The Night Before Christmas" as factual truth, but merely a beloved holiday poem."

That is exacltly what she did.


195 posted on 12/26/2005 9:34:22 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Conservatrix
Careful there, Conservatrix, You'll shoot your eye out.
196 posted on 12/26/2005 9:35:24 AM PST by badgerlandjim (Hillary Clinton is to politics as Helen Thomas is to beauty)
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To: Conservatrix

She had NO authority to do what she did.

She should have just read a different story and avoided the "horrible, offensive" material entirely.

She is a rotten person.


197 posted on 12/26/2005 9:35:26 AM PST by Politicalmom (Must I use a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Conservatrix
Why the ***% is Santa being taught in public school as a religion?

I see Santa Claus is a metaphor which teaches being a good boy or girl will gain you rewards and the concept of giving.

It is taught as a "religion" in a fashion of diversity, political correctness, Black history month, Tommy has 2 Dads, etc... All could be classified as indoctrinations surely, but hardly religions IMHO, unless you consider any and all behavior instruction to be religious.
198 posted on 12/26/2005 9:35:27 AM PST by darbymcgill
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To: RGSpincich

"However, several children went home crying because she convinced them that Santa Clause was dead."

She never said Santa was dead. Read the article.
Don't believe everything you read in the Lebanon Daily News.


199 posted on 12/26/2005 9:35:57 AM PST by Conservatrix ("He who stands for nothing will fall for anything.")
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To: Conservatrix
This woman is simply misguided.

Although she is obviously very much opposed to the agenda of the secular humanists, she has nonetheless bought into their tactics and methods and is simply attempting to apply them to her Christian beliefs.

She has abandoned the Godly attributes of grace and moderation by attempting to take on secular humanism on their turf.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Eph 6:12)

The correct battle plan is steeped in prayer and follows the lead of Our Lord who acted in love (against which their is no law)
200 posted on 12/26/2005 9:36:48 AM PST by One_who_hopes_to_know
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