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Vers le dépeuplement du monde (Swiss story on underpopulation)
LeTemps ^ | Mercredi 20 juillet 2005 | Etienne Dubuis

Posted on 07/20/2005 1:45:00 PM PDT by briant

Dans les prochaines décennies, ce n'est pas la surpopulation mais la dépopulation qui menacera la planète, y compris l'Asie. Réunis à Tours, les démographes craignent de graves conséquences sociales et économiques.

(I translated a bit) In the commming decades, it's not overpopulation, but underpopulation which will threaten the planet, including Asia. Meeting in Tours, demographers fear grave social and econimic consequences.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
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Depopulation? I didn't know where to post this, and couldn't find it in English, so if you parle francais, lire s'il vous plait. This is great as it is so reminiscent of the whole global cooli...er global warming issue. It would be great if someone has a English periodical version. I'll translate more later.
1 posted on 07/20/2005 1:45:01 PM PDT by briant
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To: briant

Steyn has been saying this about Europe. I hope it's a temporary problem and that in less static places of the world, new means will be found to deal with depopulation--i.e., different social programs and methods of production.


2 posted on 07/20/2005 1:48:58 PM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: briant
Babelfish translation of the entire article
3 posted on 07/20/2005 1:50:27 PM PDT by NMR Guy
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To: briant

Rough but workable translation from Babelfish:

Nothing occurs as envisaged. Whereas one believed the world threatened of overpopulation, the demographers hold up a new risk today: depopulation. Far from continuing to multiply as it has done in a spectacular way for two centuries, humanity would prepare quite to the contrary, from here to around fifty of years, to decrease in a number. The report, drawn up lately by various researchers, was confirmed Monday by the president of the international Union for the scientific study of population (IUSSP), the French demographer Jacques Vallin, in opening of XXVe Congrès international of the population, a major demonstration which takes place every four years and brings together this week with Tours some 2000 participants. Our vision of the future of humanity is some upset. The community of the demographers had mainly adopted since around fifty of years a theory known as of the "demographic transition". According to the latter, the population of the sphere was supposed to pass from a point of balance to another. If it had started to increase in a spectacular way starting from the middle of the XVIIIe century because of a radical reduction of the death rate, it was going to be stabilized in the long term thanks to an also important reduction in the birth rate. And all would return in the order. However, the "demographic transition" is completed, one notes it today, in a chaotic way. At the two ends of the existence, the evolution of the population continues well beyond what was envisaged. The life expectancy took the elevator. "In the Eighties, one affirmed that it would never exceed 75 years, explains Jacques Vallin. Then, one spoke about a maximum of 85. And today, one is to 100." It acts there, of course, of an excellent news, more especially as the old people profit more and more a long time from a good health. But this progress has as a corollary a radical ageing of the population and will thus have a cost for the company: it will at the very least require a serious handing-over in question of our way of life. The end of the "demographic transition" does not appear also dramatic however if another phenomenon did not occur with the other end of the existence. The rise in the life expectancy is coupled with a very strong fall of the index of fruitfulness. It was considered a long time that this last figure would decrease gradually in the companies developed to stabilize itself around 2,1 children per woman, that is to say the level necessary to the reproduction of a population. However, this limit was inserted. In Europe, the index fell to 1,4, with points with 1,2 in various countries of the east and the south of the continent. In Eastern Asia, it is gone down to 1,6, with a world record of 0,8 in Hongkong. Figures spectacularly low. Figures considered a long time, also, like exceptional. Many demographers expected that they go up after a few years or, less, that they are compensated by the birthrate of other areas of the world. However, there still, reality proves surprising. Not only the rate of fruitfulness of the developed countries remains very low, but that of many countries in the process of development dégringole in its turn. The risk of nonrenewal of the populations which one thought exceptional reveals general. And, in this respect, a course comes to be crossed: since 2003, more half of humanity lives in a country or an area of the world (China and India were cut out in areas) where fruitfulness is below the fateful bar of the 2,1 children per woman. Result: whereas the demographers announced that the Earth would have 15 billion inhabitants in 2050, they envisage nothing any more but 9 billion them. More significant still of a change of prospect: much of them announces for the continuation a clear reduction of the world population. Depopulation, if it is confirmed, will not fail to have economic effects. It will pose a problem of distribution of the richnesses, since less and less workers the load more and more people will have to assume. In a more general way, it will be difficult to ensure a sustained high growth with a declining number of producers and consumers. To ensure the survival of the system, the companies will have to re-examine their in-depth organization. Today, the developed countries have at their disposal the resources offered by the immigration, from which they profit already largely to preserve their population. But it is only one short-term solution there since the tanks of migrants are condemned to dry itself up in their turn in a few decades. It will more deeply be a question of changing our report/ratio with work. The measure to be taken most obvious would be to raise the retirement age appreciably. But it will however be necessary to re-examine entirely the life division meanwhile of formation, work and rest. The economic and social changes are most obvious. But there will be others of them. In the political field for example, since an old and less and less many population will have a way different from ours to consider the life. Lastly, the geography even will be upset since whole areas will turn over to the wildlife after millenia of human conquests.


4 posted on 07/20/2005 1:50:40 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry (Esse Quam Videre)
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To: briant; Tijeras_Slim; TheBigB; Constitution Day; Owl_Eagle; Fierce Allegiance; Petronski; cyborg; ..
We interrupt this otherwise serious thread with a video of the Fightin' French.
5 posted on 07/20/2005 1:52:08 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: briant

Get married, have babies - and drive liberals crazy...


6 posted on 07/20/2005 1:52:49 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
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To: briant

Here's a translation.:)


http://sites.gizoogle.com/showpage.php?url=http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1447054/posts


7 posted on 07/20/2005 1:57:13 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (It's going to be a hoot to see the Swimmer judge ANYONE'S character.)
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To: 2banana

Have Blonde Blue-Eyed Babies and REALLY drive the Libs crazy!

LOL!!


8 posted on 07/20/2005 1:58:16 PM PDT by Dashing Dasher (I'M SORRY....BUT I CAN'T CHANGE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.)
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To: martin_fierro

Are you sure those aren't Floridians?


9 posted on 07/20/2005 2:01:42 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: WinOne4TheGipper

"Steyn has been say'n this `bout Europe. I hope it's a temporary problem n thiznat in less static places of tha world, new means wizzay be found ta deal wit depopulation--izzles different social programs n methods of production fo shizzle."

LOL. Boo-yah.


10 posted on 07/20/2005 2:04:48 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry (Esse Quam Videre)
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To: briant
A gradual reduction in population would be a good thing. I don't have a magic number in mind, but the USA was a far more agreeable place with 100-150 million people than with 300 million. (And that wasn't so very long ago. I was in junior high ....) A global population of 2-4 billion, or less, does not scare me -- again, as long as the decline is gradual.

The problem is social insurance ponzi schemes in most developed countries.

11 posted on 07/20/2005 2:05:11 PM PDT by sphinx
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To: Dashing Dasher

That would not drive liberals crazy. You really need to see the classifieds of the high end New York magazines requesting donor eggs/sperm of blond,blue eyed college coeds and guys.


12 posted on 07/20/2005 2:07:33 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: RegulatorCountry

Link to "Democrizzle Underground" fo shizzle:

http://sites.gizoogle.com/showpage.php?url=http://www.democraticunderground.com


13 posted on 07/20/2005 2:08:06 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry (Esse Quam Videre)
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To: cyborg

Darn....

If I was younger and had more eggs to sell... I could be RICH!!!

/sarc

/barf


14 posted on 07/20/2005 2:08:47 PM PDT by Dashing Dasher (I'M SORRY....BUT I CAN'T CHANGE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

That's their problem. A lot of these places experiencing 'underpopulation' are into abortions,immorality,socialism,etc. What do you expect when you have no reverence for life?


15 posted on 07/20/2005 2:08:51 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Dashing Dasher

LOL yeah it's just hysterical. If that's what someone wants in a child well fine BUT going in the parks in Manhattan and you see lesbian couples with a tow headed child, you go HMMMMMMMM.


16 posted on 07/20/2005 2:10:19 PM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: cyborg

Around here it's the two gay guys with the mexican babies.


Hmmmmmmm......


17 posted on 07/20/2005 2:52:07 PM PDT by Dashing Dasher (I'M SORRY....BUT I CAN'T CHANGE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.)
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To: Dashing Dasher

Products of illegal entry?


18 posted on 07/20/2005 3:13:50 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: briant
1)Rien ne se passe comme prévu. Alors qu'on croyait le monde menacé de surpopulation, les démographes brandissent aujourd'hui un nouveau risque: la dépopulation. Loin de continuer à se multiplier comme elle l'a fait de manière spectaculaire depuis deux siècles, l'humanité s'apprêterait tout au contraire, d'ici à une cinquantaine d'années, à diminuer en nombre. Le constat, dressé ces derniers temps par différents chercheurs, a été confirmé lundi par le président de l'Union internationale pour l'étude scientifique de la population (IUSSP), le démographe français Jacques Vallin, en ouverture du XXVe Congrès international de la population, une manifestation majeure qui a lieu tous les quatre ans et réunit cette semaine à Tours quelque 2000 participants...


Nothing happens as predicted, whereas it was thought that the world was threatened with overpopulation, demographers hold up a new risk: depopulation. Far from continuing to multiply as happened in a spectacular manner over the last two centuries, humanity quite on the contrary, over the next 50 years, is preparing to diminish in number. The report drawn up recently by different researchers, has been confirmed Monday by the president of the International Union for the Scientific Study of Population, the French demographer Jacques Vallin, while opening the 25th International Congress on Population, a major meeting which takes place every fours years and brings together this week in Tours some 2,000 participants...


5)La fin de la «transition démographique» ne paraîtrait pas aussi dramatique cependant si un autre phénomène ne se produisait pas à l'autre bout de l'existence. L'élévation de l'espérance de vie se couple avec une très forte baisse de l'indice de fécondité. On a longtemps considéré que ce dernier chiffre diminuerait progressivement dans les sociétés développées pour se stabiliser autour de 2,1 enfants par femme, soit le niveau nécessaire à la reproduction d'une population. Or, cette limite a été enfoncée...

The end of the "demographic transition" would not seem as dramatic however if another phenomenon was not happening at the other end of life. The increasing life expectancy in coupled with a very strong decrease in the fertility rate. It has been long thought thats this latter number would progressively decrease in developed societies and stabilize around 2.1 children per woman, this being the number needed for the replacement population. However, this number has been breached...

6)En Europe, l'indice est tombé à 1,4, avec des pointes à 1,2 dans différents pays de l'est et du sud du continent. En Asie orientale, il est descendu à 1,6, avec un record mondial de 0,8 à Hongkong. Des chiffres spectaculairement bas. Des chiffres longtemps considérés, aussi, comme exceptionnels. De nombreux démographes s'attendaient à ce qu'ils remontent après quelques années ou, au moins, qu'ils soient compensés par la natalité d'autres régions du monde. Or, là encore, la réalité s'avère surprenante. Non seulement le taux de fécondité des pays développés reste très bas, mais celui de nombreux pays en voie de développement dégringole à son tour...

In Europe, the fertility rate has fallen to 1.4 with rates of 1.2 in different countries in the east and south of the continent. In East Asia, it has fallen to 1.6, with a world record of 0.8 in Hong Kong. Spectacularly ow numbers. Also numbers long considered to be exceptional.
Numerous demographers expected that the numbers would increase after some years or at least, that they would be compensated by the birth rates in other parts of the world. However, once again, reality proves surprising. Not only does the birth rate of developed nations remain low, but those of numerous developing countries are falling as well...

Pour assurer la survie du système, les sociétés devront revoir leur organisation en profondeur. Aujourd'hui, les pays développés ont à leur disposition les ressources offertes par l'immigration, dont ils profitent déjà grandement pour conserver leur population. Mais ce n'est là qu'une solution à court terme puisque les réservoirs de migrants sont condamnés à se tarir à leur tour dans quelques décennies. Il s'agira plus profondément de changer notre rapport au travail. La mesure à prendre la plus évidente serait d'élever sensiblement l'âge de la retraite. Mais il faudra cependant revoir entièrement le découpage de la vie entre temps de formation, de travail et de repos...

To insure the survival of the system, societies will have to review their organization in depth. Today, developed countries have at their disposal resources offered by immigration, of which they already greatly profit to conserve their population. But this is only a short-term solution since the reservoirs of immigrants are destined to dry up, in their turn, in several decades. It is, more importantly, an issue of changing our relationship with work. The most evident measure to take would be to sensibly raise the retirement age. But it will however be necessary to review entirely the division of life between training, work and relaxation...


I translated the 1st, 5th, 6th and 9th paragraphs. Should give you the gist of it. I'm too lazy to do the whole thing. LOL
19 posted on 07/20/2005 3:14:59 PM PDT by briant
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To: briant

last paragraph blunder: "...societies will have to review their organization in depth."

oops... societies should be businesses or companies.


20 posted on 07/20/2005 3:19:27 PM PDT by briant
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