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Roswell Smoking Gun, the Ramey Memo - (explosive new proof;UFO crash N.M. 1947; gov't cover-up!)
UFO CASE BOOK.COM ^ | JUNE 28, 2005 | DAVID RUDIAK

Posted on 06/29/2005 9:24:26 AM PDT by CHARLITE

Note: This article is an addendum to The Roswell Crash, and Roswell, 50 years and counting. (Links on website:http://ufocasebook.com/rameymemo.html


Barely noticeable in one of the 1947 photos and clutched in Gen. Ramey's left hand is a slip of paper (boxed in red). Probably unwittingly, Gen. Ramey had the text side facing towards the camera, allowing the text on this paper to be photographed.

When blown up and analyzed, it tells a remarkably different story of events from the one Ramey or contemporary Air Force counter-intelligence wants you to believe.


The message turns out to be a telegram from Gen. Ramey to the Pentagon and Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, the acting AAF Chief of Staff at the time. Ramey is providing Vandenberg an update on the very fluid situation in-the-field at Roswell. The first paragraph describes what had been found. Ramey starts by acknowledging "THAT A 'DISK' IS NEXT NEW FIND." He then adds that "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and something else (possibly just "A WRECK") had also been found near the recovery "OPERATION AT THE 'RANCH'." At the end it states that "YOU" (i.e. Gen. Vandenberg) had ordered the "victims" and/or the wreckage "FORWARDED" to "FORT WORTH, TEX."

In the second paragraph, Ramey describes how the situation was being handled. Ramey first states that something "IN THE 'DISC'", probably the bodies of the "forwarded" "victims" (and possibly termed "AVIATORS") would be flown by a B-29 Special Transport or C-47 to the "A1" (personnel director) of some "8TH ARMY****" division, most likely the head flight surgeon at Fort Worth given the context. Wright Field, Ohio, home of the AAF's aeronautical labs, was to assess the Roswell crash object (possibly referred to as an "AIRFOIL").

Finally Ramey outlines how the situation was being treated publicly and how they were going to cover it up. First he assures Vandenberg that the earlier highly inflammatory Roswell base press release (referred to as the "MISSTATE MEANING OF STORY") was the work of an Army counter-intelligence team ("CIC/TEAM"), but that the "NEXT SENT OUT PR" (Press Release) would be "OF WEATHER BALLOONS."

Ramey finishes with the statement that the weather balloon story might be better accepted if they also added weather balloon radar target demonstrations. This apparently was the impetus for the national debunking campaign using the devices that followed over the next few days.


There is no question that Ramey's message, even when greatly enlarged and then enhanced by computer, is a very difficult read because of fuzziness, film grain noise, uneven development, photo defects, paper folds and tilt, shadows, and text obscured at the left margin by Gen. Ramey's thumb. This will inevitably prompt comments from die-hard skeptics that a full "take" on the Ramey message is strictly one's own interpretation. However, there are various keywords and phrases that can be readily seen by anyone, even in lower resolution scans of the message first analyzed in 1999 by a number of people. These keywords and phrases unambiguously prove that there is no truth whatsoever to the various Air Force "explanations," be they the original 1947 "weather balloon" story, or the Air Forces updated "Mogul balloon" and "crash dummies."

Far and away the most important word of the entire message is "VICTIMS" on the third line (part of phrase "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK"). If there were "VICTIMS", then this was no Mogul balloon crash. As the Air Force Roswell report itself noted (using splendid circular reasoning) reports of bodies being recovered couldn't be true because the crash was of a Mogul balloon, which had "no 'alien' passengers therein."

Of course Ramey's mention of "VICTIMS" in 1947 also disproves the already preposterous "crash dummies" theory. The only way these 1950's crash dummies could be "victims" is if they also time-warped back to 1947.

Another easily seen keyword and phrase is "DISC" and "IN THE 'DISC" on the fifth line. Ramey is clearly describing the crash object as a "DISC", not as a "weather balloon", or a "Mogul" or a "radar target" or a "RAWIN" (jargon term for a radar wind target), or any other word or phase that in any way suggests some sort of balloon or balloon paraphenalia. In fact, the only mention of "weather balloons" and "RAWIN" targets comes at the very end of the message in the context of issued public statements and damage-control.

(The word "DISK" is also used on the first line in reference to what had been found, but this instance of the word is not so easily seen.)

Furthermore, the message refers to the subsequent shipment of something "IN the disc." Neither balloons nor the two-dimensional, flimsy radar kites had anything "inside" that could be shipped. If Ramey had been referring to some piece of balloon payload equipment, then the phrase should have begun with "attached to" or "suspended from", or "with", etc. In speaking of "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK",, using the word "DISC" for the crash object, and shipping something "IN THE DISC", Ramey is clearly referring to something other than a balloon crash. The simplest interpretation is to take the words literally. There is no reason for Gen. Ramey to be describing events abstractly in a secret communication to his superiors. This was the actually crash of a so-called "flying disk" craft with a dead crew found on the inside, as corroborated by the testimony of military and civilian witnesses.

Ramey is quite explicit about the existence of bodies and the crash object being a "disc." The only thing not made explicit in the message is the exact nature of the bodies or "disc." Ramey probably does not refer to the bodies as "nonhuman," "alien," or some similar term. Nor does he use terms like "spaceship," "craft of unknown origin," etc. to describe the "disc."

Among the theories about the Roswell incident is that this was the crash of some highly secretive government experimental craft piloted by a human crew. However, nobody has ever presented evidence that such an experimental disk-like craft ever existed or was tested in New Mexico at that time. It also seems highly unlikely that even a highly secret craft but with half-century-old technology would still be kept secret.

Further, it makes no sense that the government would be completely unaware of the crash of one of their own craft until some sheep rancher came into town to report it.

The same logic applies to the crash of something more conventional, such as a bomber carrying nuclear weapons (another theory sometimes proposed). The military would not wait for a local rancher to tell them about it nor would there be any need for continued secrecy into the present day. (Similar nuclear accidents have been declassified and are now in the public record.) And why would Gen. Ramey call it a "disc"?

Finally, both the Air Force and General Accounting Office (investigating on behalf of Congressman Schiff) in 1995 reported that air crash records revealed no plane crashes in that area during that time frame that could possibly explain the Roswell incident. In brief, there is simply no evidence for the crash of any conventional or experimental aircraft.


Telegram held in General Ramey's hand provides smoking gun proof of a "disk" crash and the recovery of "the victims of the wreck."

The Air Force claimed in their 1994/95 Roswell Report that a government photoanalysis lab which they refused to identify ("a national level organization") was unable to "visualize" any "details" in the Ramey memo from first generation prints and negative copies even after digitizing (computer scanning) supposedly because of "insufficient quality." As you look at higher resolution scans readily available to civilians from similar prints, how much "truth" do you suspect was in the Air Force statement?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: New Mexico
KEYWORDS: artbell; coverup; crash; crazy; deanismoresane; general; government; loony; newmexico; nuts; oldnews; ramey; roswell; tinfoilalert; ufo
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1 posted on 06/29/2005 9:24:33 AM PDT by CHARLITE
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To: CHARLITE

Old news.


2 posted on 06/29/2005 9:25:24 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (I thought about that and DELIBERATELY didn't go there. (Or maybe you did?))
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To: CHARLITE

The truth is out there.


3 posted on 06/29/2005 9:25:33 AM PDT by My2Cents ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: CHARLITE

Looks like the tinfoil hats are still required fashion wear in UFO land!


4 posted on 06/29/2005 9:26:58 AM PDT by nuke rocketeer
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To: CHARLITE

This is old news.


5 posted on 06/29/2005 9:27:37 AM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: CHARLITE

Could someone find and post another version of this photo from a contemporary source. Purpose? To insure that the "telegram" was not fotoshopped into the picture.


6 posted on 06/29/2005 9:28:22 AM PDT by xkaydet65 (Peace, Love, Brotherhood, and Firepower. And the greatest of these is Firepower!)
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To: CHARLITE

Old news. The Discovery Channel covered this years ago.


7 posted on 06/29/2005 9:29:04 AM PDT by roylene
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To: CHARLITE
I knew it! I knew it!

hehehe ;)

8 posted on 06/29/2005 9:30:19 AM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: CHARLITE

This is old, and anyone who claims to read those words on that paper is deluding himself. I just see a bunch of big smudges.

It's also unlikely that Ramey would casually carry about classified documents like that. Who brings stuff like that into a room full of reporters?


9 posted on 06/29/2005 9:30:31 AM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: ThreePuttinDude; Beth528; SMARTY; Ghost of Philip Marlowe; CyberAnt; nothingnew; Cornpone; ...
FYI ping.

Char :)

10 posted on 06/29/2005 9:31:12 AM PDT by CHARLITE (I propose a co-Clinton team as permanent reps to Pyonyang, w/out possibility of repatriation....)
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To: CHARLITE

I'm convinced , this is where Hillary came from , the time frame is perfect . The great universal conspiracy !!


11 posted on 06/29/2005 9:31:14 AM PDT by lionheart 247365 (( I.S.L.A.M. ; ) Islam's Spiritual Leaders Advocate Murder .. .. .. ))
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To: nuke rocketeer

Hey, that looks like Lucy Ramirez!


12 posted on 06/29/2005 9:31:31 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: CHARLITE

Are you posting this as a joke?


13 posted on 06/29/2005 9:31:33 AM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: xkaydet65

Yeah, I have one . . . from Dan Rather.


14 posted on 06/29/2005 9:34:23 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: SpringheelJack

Lots of photo enhancements is based on making something out of smudges.


15 posted on 06/29/2005 9:36:29 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: CHARLITE

But, but, but Tom Cruise said so!!!


16 posted on 06/29/2005 9:36:35 AM PDT by jbwbubba
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To: SengirV

I doubt you'll find any credible photo analyst who'll stand by this.


17 posted on 06/29/2005 9:38:17 AM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: nuke rocketeer

Raise your hand if you think we are the ultimate intelligence in the universe? Seeing few hands...


18 posted on 06/29/2005 9:39:03 AM PDT by keysguy (Time to get rid of the UN and the ACLU)
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To: jbwbubba

Yeah but just you wait, when Predator shows up in Baghdad ol Arnie will fly over there and take care of things.


19 posted on 06/29/2005 9:40:17 AM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: CHARLITE


Applying my disgronificator to line 4, I observed the following "one of the victims was wearing a thong and smeared with velveeta cheese"

I wonder what THAT means?
20 posted on 06/29/2005 9:41:08 AM PDT by Paloma_55
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To: SpringheelJack
And I guess it was a mistake that the initial reports from the army of the Roswell incident were of a ufo and then changed the following day, what a coincidence!!
21 posted on 06/29/2005 9:41:12 AM PDT by keysguy (Time to get rid of the UN and the ACLU)
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To: CHARLITE

Blah Blah Blah


22 posted on 06/29/2005 9:41:44 AM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
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To: keysguy
Raise your hand if you think we are the ultimate intelligence in the universe? Seeing few hands...


23 posted on 06/29/2005 9:42:16 AM PDT by frogjerk
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To: keysguy

Paging Art Bell. Mr Bell, pick up the white courtesy phone, please.


24 posted on 06/29/2005 9:42:18 AM PDT by JRjr (hMMM?)
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To: CHARLITE

There were Igigi in the "disc". Boy, are Enki and Enlil gonna be pissed...


25 posted on 06/29/2005 9:43:40 AM PDT by adaven
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To: keysguy
And I guess it was a mistake that the initial reports from the army of the Roswell incident were of a ufo and then changed the following day, what a coincidence!!

Yes it was. Initial reports are often inaccurate, because the guys issuing them don't have the best information. Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman?

26 posted on 06/29/2005 9:43:43 AM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: CHARLITE

I want to believe.


27 posted on 06/29/2005 9:44:53 AM PDT by SoDak (sigh)
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To: CHARLITE

Its like that backward masking thing. If you listen FOR something in a song played backwards, you are bound to hear it.


28 posted on 06/29/2005 9:46:53 AM PDT by Paradox (Sometimes, a beer or two makes my writing more lucid. Sometimes, it takes 3 or 4.)
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To: SpringheelJack
anyone who claims to read those words on that paper is deluding himself

There are people who make a living reading such. They are land surveyors, who are required to read poor copies of land deeds that most people would consider unreadable. All it takes is experience. Find an old land surveyor.

29 posted on 06/29/2005 9:47:05 AM PDT by RightWhale (withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: SoDak

This calls for an investigation by a journalist of impeccable reputation -- maybe Dan Rather.


30 posted on 06/29/2005 9:48:32 AM PDT by ReadyNow
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To: CHARLITE

So the aliens piloted a weather balloon to Earth?


31 posted on 06/29/2005 9:49:07 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: SpringheelJack

Yeah like john doe # 2, initial report, but okc was just one angry white guy with militia ties and it was all Rush's fault.


32 posted on 06/29/2005 9:49:13 AM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: ReadyNow

Did the victims from the disc give an interview to Bob Woodward before they died?


33 posted on 06/29/2005 9:53:23 AM PDT by San Jacinto
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To: keysguy
And I guess it was a mistake that the initial reports from the army of the Roswell incident were of a ufo and then changed the following day, what a coincidence!!

What crashed at Roswell were some balloons used for a top-secret program to attempt to listen for Russian nuclear tests. That the program was in fact top secret led to a lot of the confusion and mystery. Not extraterrestrial though.

34 posted on 06/29/2005 9:54:10 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: CHARLITE
I was abducted and taken to Mexico where aliens probed me for hours. :P
35 posted on 06/29/2005 9:54:19 AM PDT by TheForceOfOne (My tagline snapped the last time the MSM blew smoke up my ass. Now its gone forever.)
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To: CHARLITE
Roswell Daily Record - July 8, 1947 "The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer. According to information released by the department, over authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel, intelligence officer, the disk was recovered on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff Geo. Wilcox, here, that he had found the instrument on his premises. Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the ranch and recovered the disk, it was stated. After the intelligence officer here had inspected the instrument it was flown to higher headquarters. The intelligence office stated that no details of the saucer's construction or its appearance had been revealed. Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who saw what they thought was a flying disk. They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed. Wilmot called Mrs. Wilmot's attention to it and both ran down into the yard to watch. It was in sight less then a minute, perhaps 40 or 50 seconds, Wilmot estimated. Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour. In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed, together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would inside, though not like it would be if a light were merely underneath. From where he stood Wilmot said that the object looked to be about 5 feet in size, and making allowance for the distance it was from town he figured that it must have been 15 to 20 feet in diameter, though this was just a guess. Wilmot said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time. The object came into view from the southeast and disappeared over the treetops in the general vicinity of six mile hill. Wilmot, who is one of the most respected and reliable citizens in town, kept the story to himself hoping that someone else would come out and tell about having seen one, but finally today decided that he would go ahead and tell about it. The announcement that the RAAF was in possession of one came only a few minutes after he decided to release the details of what he had seen."
36 posted on 06/29/2005 9:55:18 AM PDT by Beth528
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To: CHARLITE

Thanks for the ping!


37 posted on 06/29/2005 9:55:30 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Beth528

38 posted on 06/29/2005 9:59:16 AM PDT by Beth528
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To: CHARLITE

Ping for later read.


39 posted on 06/29/2005 10:06:18 AM PDT by albee (A paranoid schizophrenic is somebody who just found out what is going on.)
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To: Beth528
A 50 year-old government cover-up - who cares?

Even if it's true, any "fallout" from the incident has happened long ago. If it was going to change the world, it already did.

Get over it.

40 posted on 06/29/2005 10:09:46 AM PDT by lOKKI (You can ignore reality until it bites you in the ass.)
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To: CHARLITE

Somebody call Dan Rather!


41 posted on 06/29/2005 10:13:40 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: RightWhale
There are people who make a living reading such. They are land surveyors, who are required to read poor copies of land deeds that most people would consider unreadable. All it takes is experience. Find an old land surveyor.

Oh, man...you're not saying that that guy is actually holding the DEED TO THE EARTH, are you? That could spell trouble...I hope we're not behind on the mortgage...
42 posted on 06/29/2005 10:19:20 AM PDT by beezdotcom (I'm usually either right or wrong...)
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To: SpringheelJack

Well, they don't change them to such a stupid idea as a balloon.

Initial reports are wrong, but not that wrong. They would not get wrong if there were victims or if it was a craft or balloon.


43 posted on 06/29/2005 10:21:37 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: Beth528; Reactionary
I and all five of my children saw a giant mother ship and about 2 or 3 dozen little ships coming and going from a huge opening on the underside of the big ship.

This was quite a number of years before the movie, "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind," but the mother ship that I and my 5 children witnessed was identical to the one in that "fictional" movie.

This was sometime in 1972 or 1973, when I lived in the country, 8 miles from Wellesley, MA. It was in February. It was a clear, crisply cold night about 8 PM. We all had "safari" binoculars and we stood on my 2nd floor bedroom balcony for at least 20 minutes, watching the "coming and going" of the baby craft.

It looked a lot like a busy bee hive.

Then, very suddenly (as other UFO eye witnesses have also reported), the little craft were almost like they'd been sucked into the opening by a giant vacuum cleaner. The mother ship then whizzed off with such speed that within 5 seconds, it was just a spot in the sky. Five more seconds and it had disappeared entirely.

While we were watching it, it was probably some 1,000 ft. above a tree line - but I'm not very good at estimating distances.

Char

44 posted on 06/29/2005 10:22:09 AM PDT by CHARLITE (I propose a co-Clinton team as permanent reps to Pyonyang, w/out possibility of repatriation....)
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To: xkaydet65

It's the real, unaltered original. Dan Rather has already certified it.


45 posted on 06/29/2005 10:23:29 AM PDT by CrazyIvan (What's the difference between Joseph Goebbels and Michael Moore? About 150 pounds.)
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To: CHARLITE

46 posted on 06/29/2005 10:23:54 AM PDT by dfwgator (Congratulations Longhorns.)
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To: rwfromkansas

The stories about "flying discs" (nobody called them ufos back then) had only started appearing a week or two before Roswell. Nobody knew what they were, or if they were even anything. Some thought they might have been some kind of balloon. Nobody knew.


47 posted on 06/29/2005 10:24:38 AM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: Paloma_55

re: alien wearing a thong and covered with velveeta cheese and what does that mean?

Aliens are good to eat?

If its Bordens, it's got to be alien?


48 posted on 06/29/2005 10:27:01 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: beezdotcom

".I hope we're not behind on the mortgage.."

They can call me to refinance, I'll get them in a nice interest only product.

Lets see, a mortgage for the whole earth, x dollars, x my commission rate. Gosh I could even throw in a extra nice pen.


49 posted on 06/29/2005 10:28:10 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland
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To: BenLurkin
It amuses me to see how quick people are, to ridicule mysteries concerning UFOs, when the people laughing at it have never had any experience whatsoever, with proof(s) that their own eyes have revealed to them.

The question isn't "do they exist?" The question is what are they?........and from what dimension do they come?...What solar system?.......what galaxy? One might also ask, What are they doing here?......that's the easiest one to answer. They are explorers. We're a laboratory for them.

Not that this calculation matters very much, but Einstein once wrote that given the estimated billions of stars and orbiting planets around each one, the smallest number of spheres similar to our Earth, which could support life would be 600+

And for the strictly Bible-oriented people, if God created the Universe, then "what can not God do?" Who would argue that everything in the Universe is barren, including all planets around every one of billions of suns, and that only planet Earth has life?"

Char:)

50 posted on 06/29/2005 10:31:15 AM PDT by CHARLITE (I propose a co-Clinton team as permanent reps to Pyonyang, w/out possibility of repatriation....)
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