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After 10 years, brain-damaged Buffalo-area fireman makes astounding recovery (Schiavo Parallel?)
CBC ^

Posted on 05/03/2005 10:37:57 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (AP) - Ten years after a firefighter was left brain-damaged and mostly mute during a 1995 roof collapse, he did something that shocked his family and doctors: He perked up.

"I want to talk to my wife," Donald Herbert said out of the blue Saturday. Staff members of the nursing home where he has lived for more than seven years raced to get Linda Herbert on the telephone.

It was the first of many conversations the 44-year-old patient had with his wife, four sons and other family and friends during a 14-hour stretch, said Herbert's uncle, Simon Manka.

"How long have I been away?" Herbert asked.

"We told him almost 10 years," the uncle said. "He thought it was only three months."

(Excerpt) Read more at cbc.ca ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida; US: New York
KEYWORDS: braindamage; coma; donaldherbert; getoveryourselves; notschaivo; rerun; schiavo
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To: bvw
> How may I starve your wife today, sir?

SWAT team in place and hold the ice chips. Arrest any kids carrying a glass of water and take them away in handcuffs. Oh, and no Holy Communion or Christian burial.

101 posted on 05/10/2005 5:53:23 AM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Third Law: Liberals never admit the truth until they tell a lie about us -- for balance.)
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To: Future Useless Eater

You might find various link on this thread??

RUSH LIMBAUGH LIVE THREAD ( those who want an update and accurate on TERRI SCHIAVO STATE!
WABC radio ^ | MARCH 22, 2005
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts


Affidavit of Carla Iyer, nurse who cared for Terri Schiavo from April 1995 to July 1996
Terri's Fight (website established on Terri's behalf by her parents and that side of the family) ^ | August 29, 2003 | Carla Iyer http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1006944/posts

CSI MEDBLOGS: CODEBLUEBLOG ANALYZES TERRI SCHIAVO'S CT OF THE BRAIN
codeblueblog.blogs.com ^ | 3-21-05 | Dr CBB
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1367520/posts

with Petah Jenninngs) played an audio of Terri that was recorded and released by her family http://abcnews.go.com/Video/

According to the timeline that Peach linked to earlier, Terri recieved "continuing neurological testing, and regular and aggressive speech/occupational therapy (from 1991) through 1994." http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm
BTW Peach is anti Schiavo life

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts?page=361#361

Bone Scan http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts?page=384#384

JUSTICE FOR TERRI SCHIAVO http://journals.aol.com/justice1949/JUSTICEFORTERRISCHIAVO/entries/83

Ethical Center for right to die http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts?page=454#454

Kate Adamson was totally paralyzed by a severe double brainstem stroke on June 29, 1995 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts?page=478#478

Some Florida Statutes that might interest you:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts?page=502#502

http://www.blogsforterri.com/video.php


102 posted on 05/10/2005 6:22:08 AM PDT by restornu (“No president in American history understood the timber of the American character better than Reagan)
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To: All

Next door neighbor was declared brain dead last Monday,husband pulled plug on Friday,she died Sunday.She was 42 years old and suffered from a clot on her brain.
There's all kinds of brain dead folks,can't compare one to Another.


103 posted on 05/10/2005 6:47:34 AM PDT by hubno (hub)
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To: hubno

If Terri had been brain dead (as the media were wont to say at first), she would have died fifteen years ago. I don't think even "life support" measures can keep a completely brain-dead person alive for long. There would have been no controversy -- except maybe a homicide investigation and manslaughter charges against her assailant.


104 posted on 05/10/2005 12:51:13 PM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Third Law: Liberals never admit the truth until they tell a lie about us -- for balance.)
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To: All
A SIGNIFICANT TERRI-RESPONSIVENESS REPORT



This was on Sean Hannity's radio show, apparently March 21, 2005. You can listen to it here.
    Sean: Doctor William Hammesfahr is with us... As a man who, according to one report I read... you spent, over TEN hours with Terri Schiavo, sir?

    Dr.H: I spent about ten hours over three separate visits, yes.

    Sean: Well first of all, welcome to the program, I know how busy you are doctor, and I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day. And by the way, is it true that I read you were nominated for a Nobel prize?

    Dr.H: Yeah, yea, in 1999, for work, for the type of therapy that we WANT to do with Terri, that should HELP with Terri in fact.

    Sean: Are you as stunned as I am, that there has been NO rehab attempts in this case, that theres been... it seems theres been just BASIC care denied here. Is that a fair assessment on my part?

    Dr.H: Its WORSE than basic care being denied. This woman has been subjugated to a horrible existance. She's had urinary tract infections, she's had massive overwhelming infections, that the husband has refused to give antibiotics for, and he had to give them to her after, against his written orders on the chart,

    Dr.H: This woman went from, right before a malpractice settlement check was given to him, she went from walking with parallel bars and assistance, having physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, speaking some words... to the state we see her now in the videotapes.

    Sean: Can I ask you, have you read the affidavits at all of two women, Heidi Law, a nurse who said in fact that she witnessed Terri EAT on her own? That she actually FED her? And that another woman Carla Sauer Iyers, who basically said they were on orders, by the husband, NOT to give basic care to this woman? Are you familiar with these affidavits?

    Dr.H: Yes I am

    Sean: And apparently Michael used the term; "the "B"-word die?" quote, Are you familiar with that?

    Dr.H: Right. Absolutely he did. That's what the nurses stated. And its not just them. Its quite a few other nurses around, stated that, in nursing homes and facilities. You know, he had a habit of moving her from facility to facility, when the facility... maybe I'm misreading her medical record, but it appears from her medical record, that there were nursing homes that wanted her to get treatment, he would then move her to another facility. Thats the way I interpret her record.

    Sean: Well look, doctor, you have been nominated for a Nobel prize in your field, you're one of the BEST in what you do. This is your area of expertise. You, more that anyone else I have spoken to, probably knows more about this than any politician in Washington. You spent over TEN hours with this woman. Tell us what you see? Tell us what we can do? Tell us what is the condition?

    Dr.H: What you can do, you need to get on the stick, to call congressmen and senators, thanking them for the great work that they did, and urging them to put this patient into protective custody so she can get help.

    Dr.H: And if you're in Florida, you need to CALL the governor's office, you need to call the representatives here because this woman is not in coma, she's not in PVS. She's just disabled, and she's the subject of a family trying to save her life and bring her back home to them. and a husband who's trying to prevent that. A husband who lives with somebody else.

    Dr.H: A husband who's been secretive about that. The way the family found out that that he lives with somebody else, is through the ahh... Michael's father died, and in the obituaries it was listed that Michael was survived by Michael, his significant other, and Michael's two children.

    Dr.H: You need to... this is an issue where the state HAS to intervene. This is not a judiciary vs a state's rights issue, this is an issue where a TERRIBLE error is happening, its going to KILL somebody. And it is right for the government to intervene, and try to put this person into protective custody.

    Sean: In your medical professional opinion, and I am not a medical doctor, but MY observation of this woman is that there is hope for her, when for example, the balloon, the way she follows the movement of the balloon, the way she seems to react to touch, and people's presence. Is this woman conscious on any level? or is she in this vegatetative state, as is being told us?

    Dr.H: Oh no, she's COMPLETELY conscious, Shes NOT in a vegetative state. A vegetative state is a type of coma where you are unresponsive to the world. She is NOT unresponsive. She understands English, She understands language, she TRIES to communicate. She is NOT in coma. It has been COMPLETE mis-information.

    Sean: Wait Wait Wait, I want to stop you here doctor, you're say, your ten hours with her, shes responsive directly to YOU, and understands what you say?

    Dr.H: Absolutely! Shes not only responsive to ME, but if you look at the Cranford video, Dr. Cranford video on TerrisFight.org, this is a nuerologist thats actually COMPLIMENTING her on following commands. She is very responsive, and very aware of whats happening.

    Dr.H: At one point, I was in her room, and I turned to her, and I said as I was leaving... it was a standard hospital room with a large window, and she was looking off to me, off to her left, and I turned to her and said... you know, she can't see it right now because she's blind, partly blind, I said, If you look out the window, you'd be able to see squirrels, and flowers, and all the rest...

    Dr.H: With that she turned her ENTIRE BODY, and looked out the window, and started searching for the birds. And she IS partially blind, but she still did it.

    Dr.H: If you look at her with her mother, she looks off into space, and then as her mother comes close on this famous video, she smiles at her Mother.

    Dr.H: Well, its because she can only see within about 18 inches in front of her face. So she is listening like the blind person does, to figure out where people are in the room, and then as they come closer to her, THEN she can interact with them.

    Dr.H: So this is a very very very aware, alive, vibrant individual, trapped in a body that is preventing her from communicating properly, but she's THERE, and she needs and deserves treatment.

    Sean: Doctor, this is a stunning, stunning testimony you are giving... I mean, I have never heard anybody say it this directly, And you are the only person that I know that has spent this quality time with her... So basically what you are saying is by pulling this tube we are murdering someone who is alive, conscious and aware?

    Dr.H: It is a vital need to get her under custody and away from these people who are trying to kill her. yes.

    Sean: You believe the husband is trying to murder her.

    Dr.H: I--- don't want another lawsuit. (laughs) or a lawsuit from my client.

    Sean: Well, So don't say it then.

    Dr.H: So I wont.

    Sean: So, have you been sued over this issue?

    Dr.H: Oh, no no no no no.

    Sean: But in your professional opinion, Let me put it another way, and save you the legal fees.

    In your professional opinion, having examined her for over ten hours, you being a Nobel prize nominated physician, You are saying that this is a woman that is alive, that is aware? that could live? And what kind of improvements could she make in her life?

    Dr.H: Well I would expect with treatment, proper medical treatment, I would expect her to be able to talk again at some point, and to return to her family, and start to live her life again. Be able to go out, see movies, enjoy life.

    Dr.H: She can ALREADY eat and swallow now, the only reason she is not swallowing now is because of a judicial order. Its not that she is not swallowing. She CAN swallow. The only reason she is not being FED is because of a judicial order. She CAN eat and swallow.... So, she could certainly go out and enjoy restaurants, enjoy movies, and go out and enjoy LIFE again.

    Sean: Doctor, theres this tape that came out, the family research council reported, this past friday, that her dad, Bob Schindler recorded this earlier. Have you heard it?

    [the audio tape shows Bob S. talking to, and asking questions of Terri. Mostly she moans in response to him. Once she sounds like she may have said 'yeah'.]

    Sean: There's one report that was NOT this weekend, and there are other reports that it was this weekend. I can't say, but I can say thats definately her, and I know that is her Dad's voice. so, what does that... I'm not a professional. but how do we READ that? I know our audience would not know how to read that. So what can we take from that?

    Dr.H: Well thats a person who is trying to communicate with her world around her. And I was there with her for a LONG period of time. She does NOT do that sort of vocalizations or verbalizations except when she is trying to respond to a person, or to get their specific attention. Its not undirected random activity that you can just set up a video camera and you'll get that kind of stuff. She does NOT do that kind of stuff unless she has a reason for doing it.

    Dr.H: So, And in fact she has different sorts of sounds. some for whether she is hurting, some for a variety of different needs that she has. But I was with her a long period of time, and she does NOT do that sort of stuff unless she is trying to interact and communicate with someone, and to communicate an idea.

    Sean says he will see the doctor again on H&C tonight.

105 posted on 05/11/2005 2:08:27 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (formerly FL_Engineer) (It was wrong to kill her. No other "facts" matter.-JimRobinson)
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To: All
Does EVERYONE RECALL the nay-sayers claiming this firefighter was NOTHING LIKE Terri Schiavo?

THIS STORY quotes the firefighter's OWN DOCTOR, that Donald Herbert WAS IN PVS before he regained his speech. ...excerpts follow:

Herbert's doctor, Jamil Ahmed, MD of the University at Buffalo, tells WebMD that Herbert is medically stable and "much better than before. He is definitely out of the coma. He's responsive, answering in 'no' or 'yes' with me, and moving all the extremities and shaking the hand."
...
The change came about three months after Ahmed prescribed medications targeting chemicals in the brain, including norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin. The names of the medications were not disclosed, in keeping with the wishes of the Herbert family. Ahmed says the drugs are "mostly given to people who have attention problems, cognitive problems, Parkinson's disease, and mood disorders."
...
Ahmed says that before Herbert started talking, he was diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state. Ahmed says he'd heard that Herbert may have moved, understood more, and may have been more responsive -- which could indicate that he was actually in a minimally conscious state, not a coma -- but Ahmed says he himself never saw that happen.

The same article was also published at WebMD...
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/105/107841.htm?printing=true

106 posted on 05/11/2005 2:09:34 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (formerly FL_Engineer) (It was wrong to kill her. No other "facts" matter.-JimRobinson)
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To: Slyfox; Tarheel; floriduh voter; PhilDragoo; IleeneWright; Sun; STARWISE; Coleus; restornu; Coop; ..

CORRECTION TO THE CORRECTION

OK, I finally found it...

Our Freeper-friends were NOT mistaken about hearing or reading that Terri was at one time getting WALKING THERAPY. Apparently, Terri's medical records show that Terri HAD once been using "parallel bars" with assistance, just like the firefighter Donald Herbert...

One such report for example, came from a doctor who had examined her personally for TEN HOURS, plus he reviewed MOST IF NOT ALL OF HER EARLY MEDICAL RECORDS, and told this to Sean Hannity: see this post 105 for more details...


Also see post 106 - Firefighter Donald Herbert WAS diagnosed as PVS - per his own doctor!

Now if only Terri could have only gotten a similar type of AGRESSIVE treatment!!!!
107 posted on 05/11/2005 2:17:27 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (formerly FL_Engineer) (It was wrong to kill her. No other "facts" matter.-JimRobinson)
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To: Future Useless Eater
Thanks for the ping. I didn't realize she had in fact been using the parallel bars. It shouldn't make any difference. Murder is wrong either way. But we all know that to some people, quality value of life makes all the difference. Terri has been portrayed as worthless on so many levels. This is more proof that she had a life worth living, according the standards set by those who supported her murder.
108 posted on 05/11/2005 2:28:21 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Future Useless Eater

Wonderful job of finding the info on Terri!! Thanks for making the facts available.


109 posted on 05/11/2005 4:03:59 AM PDT by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: BykrBayb
Murder is wrong either way. But we all know that to some people, quality value of life makes all the difference.

Exactly.

110 posted on 05/11/2005 4:07:28 AM PDT by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: Future Useless Eater

Excellent post!


111 posted on 05/11/2005 4:10:39 AM PDT by amdgmary (Please visit www.terrisfight.org and www.theempirejournal.com)
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To: hubno
There's all kinds of brain dead folks,can't compare one to Another.

Exactly the reason that Terri's condition should have been examined in the most modern ways.

I think she should have been given antidepressants, too. Life under Michael's well-shod heel must have been hell.

Is Terri suffering from severe depression, on top of the insult to her brain?     syriacus, 9/01/2003

112 posted on 05/11/2005 4:21:51 AM PDT by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: Future Useless Eater

"Now if only Terri could have only gotten a similar type of AGRESSIVE treatment!!!!"

You're absolutely right!!! Terri was NOT even given standard treatment for over 10 years, let alone AGRESSIVE treatment. It just makes me sick that Schiavo got by with this horrible abuse of Terri. Not allowing therapy is abuse, imo, period.

Great posts~!!! I'm glad that Hannity is staying right on this subject. Hannity is a sincere friend of the Schindlers and I believe he is as outraged as we are about what happened to Terri. Thank God there are people like Hannity on the MSM who are still allowed to tell the truth, instead of feeding us a bunch of propaganda BS.

If Terri was using Parallel Bars early on, the whole BS about PVS, is even more outrageous. Terri was responding to family and doctors during those early years. She could have regained so much, if her therapy had only continued. Schiavo is a monster.


113 posted on 05/11/2005 4:47:25 AM PDT by Pepper777
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To: Juiceyguy
May I ask if you found any documentation for your statement? Namely, "Schiavo's brain was almost completely disintegrated with no measurable activity."

I really want to find the source for that. I've asked others. I'm asking you again. Nobody ever has a source.

Frankly, I have to doubt that there is any truth to it.

114 posted on 05/11/2005 5:08:39 AM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Third Law: Liberals never admit the truth until they tell a lie about us -- for balance.)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
From all I have read, Terri Schiavo's husband never gave her the chance to recover.

Her husband wanted to get on with living so he had to make sure that Terri would no longer stand in the way.

115 posted on 05/11/2005 5:16:11 AM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: Future Useless Eater

Thanks for the ping!


116 posted on 05/11/2005 6:35:27 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Pepper777; Future Useless Eater; T'wit

what I heard about that was she complain about it because and than they discovered that she had many places of broken bones etc

Bone Scan http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367995/posts?page=384#384

I guess many healed wrong and so they had to stop the work out, and Michael I think moved her and would not allow anymore test in case of discovery (maybe of wrong doing like she was beaten?) some anit Terri folks try to say oh she her bones got brittle from her diet or because being in bed to long (whatever they could come up with to defend their sick beliefs!)

in those days MRI was forbidden by Michael....

T'wit
May I ask if you found any documentation for your statement? Namely, "Schiavo's brain was almost completely disintegrated with no measurable activity."
I really want to find the source for that. I've asked others. I'm asking you again. Nobody ever has a source.

Frankly, I have to doubt that there is any truth to it.

CSI MEDBLOGS: CODEBLUEBLOG ANALYZES TERRI SCHIAVO'S CT OF THE BRAIN
codeblueblog.blogs.com ^ | 3-21-05 | Dr CBB
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1367520/posts



117 posted on 05/11/2005 8:03:41 AM PDT by restornu (“No president in American history understood the timber of the American character better than Reagan)
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To: Pepper777; Future Useless Eater; T'wit
At this time Terri was able to chew and swallow and was learning to use the pararall bars to walk again...as soon as the malpactice law suit was won Michael Schiavo remember his wife wanted to die...so he would move her from one location to another every time they thought she was ready to start rehab again!


Michael & Terry in early stages


Early days in a hospice


What Michael allowed her to deteriate to!

118 posted on 05/11/2005 8:07:24 AM PDT by restornu (“No president in American history understood the timber of the American character better than Reagan)
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To: Dustbunny

I would add one slight wrinkle: "He kept her alive long enough to serve his purpose(s)"

There is still a question that I have; "How much life insurance was written (in small increments) on Terri's life over the past 15 years?"

sp


119 posted on 05/11/2005 8:16:19 AM PDT by sodpoodle (The Ivory Billed Woodpecker discovered Arkansas - when HRC moved to NY)
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To: Future Useless Eater; T'wit; Pepper777; Slyfox; Tarheel; floriduh voter; PhilDragoo; ...

EXCELLANT IN CONNECTING THE DOTS "FUTURE"!
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1341036/posts?page=56#56

Y'all should really check this out......

I think that whole thread has good stuff!


120 posted on 05/11/2005 8:20:57 AM PDT by restornu (“No president in American history understood the timber of the American character better than Reagan)
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