Posted on 03/28/2005 3:03:38 PM PST by blam
Gibraltar clash over £2bn treasure
Ben Sills in Madrid
Monday March 28, 2005
The Guardian (UK)
The Strait of Gibraltar has been the scene of numerous skirmishes between the British and Spanish navies, and now the two nations are sparring again - this time over the wreck of an English warship packed to the gunwales with treasure. HMS Sussex has lain undisturbed on the seabed for more than 300 years, but since researchers discovered the ship was carrying billions of pounds of English gold and silver, it has become the focus of a bitter dispute as the Spanish authorities try to frustrate the attempts of a private company to locate it and start salvage work on behalf of Britain.
International law gives UK authorities jurisdiction over the wrecks of British ships wherever they might lie, and this month the UK government gave permission to an American exploration company, Odyssey Marine Exploration, to salvage the Sussex. But the regional government of Andalucía claims that Odyssey also needs permission from Spain to carry out exploration in Spanish waters and has sent out coastal patrols to disrupt the salvage operation.
The Sussex sank with 12 other ships when a storm blew up on their first night out of Gibraltar. The ship was swamped as its commander, Admiral Sir Francis Wheeler, tried to avoid being swept on to the rocks. The admiral's body was washed up on a Spanish beach two days later.
Documents uncovered in 1995 revealed that the ship was carrying a payment for the Duke of Savoy, a key ally in Britain's war against the French. It is estimated that the treasure it carried would be worth more than £2bn today.
Odyssey has struck a deal with the British under which it can keep a share of the treasure in return for conducting the salvage operation. It will get 80% of the first £45m recovered, half of everything up to £500m and 40% of everything above that. Shares in the company have nearly doubled in price over the past month.
Odyssey's explorers have combed 400 square miles of the Mediterranean seabed using sonar equipment and deep-water robots. They discovered 418 possible targets, including Roman and Phoenician ships more than 2,000 years old. But only one of the wrecks had cannons. Odyssey is confident it has the right wreck, but other archaeologists have expressed doubts.
The Guardia Civil has sent out patrols to disrupt the operation.
The Spanish Government regularly claims wrecks of treasure galleons that are located within the national waters of western hemisphere nations. How is it that they don't see that this is merely the case of the shoe being on the other foot.
You British chumps sink a vessel close to the shore of Fort Pierce Florida and I'll go take from it what I can as is the custom everywhere and your international law crap can kiss my butt.
We divers here would love to salvage and discover.
Exactly. International law, my rear end.
So would I be right in assuming that if I come across the wreckage of a World War II US Navy aircraft on the seabed outside of the United States you would agree that I should be able to raise it and salvage it?
Funny, because the US Navy takes the view that the aircraft still belongs to it. Just as the British Government is taking the view that the HMS Sussex is still its ship.
Yes, I would take that position.
Any nation that claims control of sea or sea bed past a couple miles off its shore --- including things that have become part of that seabed, such as an abandoned, sunken, ship --- is overreaching.
The way I understand salvage rights is that nations never lose their ownership of sunken military vessels unlike civilian vessels.
I don't know....when you consider how much gold and silver the Brits got out of the Spanish over the years, maybe a little payback is in order. (Francis Drake and all those guys)
But then again....most of what got past Drake was wasted, lost, or stolen by the Spanish themselves, so, to the Victor Goes the Spoils!
And that is a wrong position.
It is salvage.
The legislators need to come up with a common sense solution. For example, surface finds above the low water line shoud be fair game. There's nothing wrong with picking up arrow heads and keeping them. Anything underneath the ground on state property or underground between the high and low water lines on waterways should be protected. I say this because I've seen where folks have used highpowered streams of water to wash away banks on some Alabama rivers and lakes. Any ship or site located under water should be approved by an arbitration board on the understanding that the board will be reasonable. A bunch of cannon balls or rifles tossed into a river during the Civil War should be considered fair game if they are fair about it. If it is something of historical significance the state should work out a system for reimbursing the finders commisserate with the value or significance of the object. The Confederate cannon, "Whistling Dick" was lost near the end of the siege of Vicksburg. It is likely in the Mississippi River or silted over in the old bed and belongs in a museum since it is such a significant item. However, if a relic hunter finds it, he should recieve a hefty finders fee. If, however, a relic hunter found a nondescript cannon that is not of great significance, he should be allowed to keep it after paying a fee.
(I couldn't resist!)
About 15 muslims with a few hundred pounds of explosives forced all Spain into appeasment. So can you imagine what even a single British naval ship would do to them?
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