Posted on 02/25/2005 7:42:54 AM PST by Pendragon_6
The worldwide Anglican Church was heading towards schism last night as its leaders prepared to force out the pro-homosexual liberal Americans and Canadians.
In a move that will send shockwaves around the world, the primates of the 70 million-strong Church are expected to issue an ultimatum today demanding that the liberals "withdraw and consider their position".
The final communique is still being drawn up, but it is certain to represent a victory for the conservative majority who have demanded discipline for bishops who defy official Church policy.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.telegraph.co.uk ...
It may be one of his best and lasting legacies.
Leni
Way to go, Anglicans!
There is not and cannot be such a thing as gay marriage.
"Americans and the Canadians made it clear at this week's meeting, they were highly unlikely to reverse their deeply held convictions."
Those Gay convictions are they are not what is in the Bible. These groups need to repent for not following God's Written Word.
Hmmm. Looks like there are religious conservatives worldwide--not just in the red states.
I wonder if any of this penetrates the minds of the liberal churchmen who push these positions.
The Anglican Provence of Christ the King broke away from the Episcopal Church USA in 1979. No "Queers"
This schism is exactly the goal of the liberal movement.
The real issue is too follow the money, here the property holdings alone of ECUSA exceeds $2 Billion, then there are foundations and investments.
Andrew Sullivan on C-Span stated that homosexual acceptance would not occur until the homosexual lobby had control of a mainstream religion and its resources.
Finally! I'm thankful that in the end the worldwide Anglican Church did the right thing concerning the liberalization of the church in America and Canada. It's time for the Americans to return to a biblical basis for their doctrine which should not include homosexuals as priests or bishops.
Hello. :) Indeed the Anglican Province of Christ the King did do exactly that; it split away. And thank goodness. But at the time it was not over "homosexuality" explicitly, as I recall. Changes in the prayer book, no?
Bingo. Am I the only one who recalls parishioners locked out of their own churches for refusal to "adhere" to the new schizm within the church, of course, their latest is to ordain an open homosexual. Yes, they were thereby, "sanctioning female and gays" able to "seize" churches. The real estate value is awesome to behold.
You are correct. My very short answer left out much of the history.
Does anybody here know who actually has title to the property of the Anglican Church here in the USA and whether the international Anglican Church can excommunicate the offending US and Canadian bishops? It looks like this schism could produce everlasting litigation over the church's property.
It would be interesting to do a study of this. But I suspect that the invested capital is probably not enough, by itself, to maintain these very expensive churches. Your typical Episcopal church is a stone gothic building of considerable size, probably with slate roof, lead or copper flashing, and all the rest of it. That kind of building can last a long time without maintenance, but when it needs maintenance it can be very expensive. Will it be possible to maintain these buildings without wealthy and substantial congregations?
I used to be an Episcopalian. Your typical congregation used to be the richest people and the oldest families in town. But that is gradually ceasing to be true. Liberal rich people no longer feel that much of a need to attend church or make a show of religion. I think there's a real risk that these folks will take over a huge, expensive network of white elephant churches, while real Christians will move out and build something cheaper for themselves.
People have also said that the Catholic Church is worth trillions. It is, if you count all those art treasures, churches, hospitals, seminaries, colleges, and schools. But they can't be sold, they must be maintained, and the trust funds aren't big enough to do it. You need living and supportive Catholics. Similarly, no matter how wealthy, ECUSA needs living and supportive Episcopalians.
While the pope is Polish, his job is different from that of Andy Sipowicz on NYPD Blue and the job description of pope is a bit beyond micromanaging such as the Massachusetts convicts NAMBLA Shanley and dead Geoghan. That was supposed to be Bernard Cardinal Law's job. Fill in the blanks for other dioceses and malefactors.
He is pope, not superbureaucrat. His participation against the Iron Curtain with Reagan and Thatcher brought about real results. Papacies are best viewed in the rear view mirror after they have concluded.
If you are still Catholic, let the Episcopaliens and the Anglicans have their own discussions. If you are no longer Catholic, then the internal governance of the Roman Catholic Church is not your personal concern.
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Anglicans give ultimatum to pro-gay liberals
By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent
(Filed: February 25 2005
The worldwide Anglican Church was heading towards schism last night as its leaders prepared to force out the pro-homosexual liberal Americans and Canadians.
In a move that will send shockwaves around the world, the primates of the 70 million-strong Church are expected to issue an ultimatum today demanding that the liberals "withdraw and consider their position".
The final communique is still being drawn up, but it is certain to represent a victory for the conservative majority who have demanded discipline for bishops who defy official Church policy.
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, is understood to have backed the uncompromising stance after week-long talks in Northern Ireland failed to achieve reconciliation.
Though privately sympathetic with the liberals, he has fought to preserve unity because he does not want to be the archbishop who presides over the break-up of the international Communion.
The development will dismay liberals across the world, and may prompt protests and even resignations from prominent C of E clerics.
Observers believe that the primates have pressed the Americans and Canadians to withdraw voluntarily because they do not have powers to suspend or expel them.
Insiders said that the Americans, who triggered the crisis by consecrating Anglicanism's first openly homosexual bishop, must decide whether they want to remain part of the Communion. In the meantime, it is understood they will no longer be participants in Anglican summits.
As a condition of being restored, they will be required to concede that their unilateral actions were wrong and pledge not to repeat them. A similar set of conditions may apply to the Canadians, the main supporters of the American position.
It is understood, however, that both the Americans and the Canadians made it clear at this week's meeting, which was being held in a remote Roman Catholic retreat centre near Newry, that they were highly unlikely to reverse their deeply held convictions.
The focus of the talks was the Windsor report, commissioned by Dr Williams in 2003 to try to heal the rifts created by the consecration of the Rt Rev Gene Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire.
Bishop Frank Griswold, the liberal Presiding Bishop of the American Episcopal Church, is expected to make an initial reaction to the communique today before returning to the US. But observers believe that the Americans - and possibly the Canadians - may never regain their full status within the Anglican Communion - resulting in formal schism.
Remember, most of the Archbiships and Cardinals in place in the US who created a lot of the mess were NOT appointed by JPII, but by Paul VI, who was much more open to the push of the liberals after Vatican II.
I'm not about to leave the Church I love because some liberal idiots are trying to change things. I'll push back and make sure they don't get their way. I've done this for the last 30 years by being active in the Parishes in which I live. In the absence of any opposition, they did get their way in many places, and the lack of vocations is a direct result of that. Why dedicate your life to a Church that doesn't seem to stand up for it's teachings? You'll notice that those Dioceses that have Bishops who are strong on the teachings of the Church do NOT have a 'crisis' in vocations, it's really only the more liberal ones.
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