Posted on 10/07/2004 10:45:40 AM PDT by aynrandy
"He then proceded to murder thousands "
Absolute Rubbish !!! Which voyage? Your source? And please have the source connected directly to Columbus in his lifetime and not Cortez, DeSoto, et al.
"You're thinking of the wrong natives, that was over in Mexico and Peru. Columbus landed on Hispaniola, which had fairly primitive agricultural and hunter tribes."
For what it is worth, according to Columbus' personal journals, Columbus had no reason to rape and murder because he was often greeted as a 'god' when he went ashore. And, every man he left behind on his first (?) journey was murdered by the "primitive"s.
As for slavery, we are in no position to scrutinize the practice as "enlightened" people; slavery happened, it is a fact, it cannot be historically used to denigrate a persons character. (Slavery was even a practice between differing Indian tribes.)
Or getting high-end totally free medical care!
Quick, somebody name one race that hasn't, at some point in history, been enslaved by someone else.
I had to respond to your posting.
Columbus first touched ground in the Bahamas. The Carib "Indians" that Columbus later encountered in Hispaniola were surrounded by cannibalistic tribes. Although the Caribs were relatively benign, further exploration in the New World revealed many instances of the horrific native atrocities and practices I've already mentioned.
As a devout Catholic, Columbus took great efforts to proselytize the "pagan savages". Unfortunately, his program was undermined by the venality and criminality of his underlings and their unfaithfulness in adhering to the directives of the Spanish Crown. These ongoing Spanish atrocities were documented by Bartolome De Las Casas, a Catholic priest, whose accounts were, indeed, accepted by the King and Queen of Spain, who were appalled at the treatment of those who they considered their subjects. In fact, Columbus's failed attempts on subsequent trips to the New World to correct these problems resulted in his being returned to the Spanish court in chains at the command of the Spanish Crown.
Neither Columbus nor the Spanish sovereigns sanctioned the brutality that occurred during the poorly-managed attempts to proselytize the native "Indians".
In today's Middle East, we find it no easier to put down brutal medieval behaviors and practices still occurring in the Islamic world, such as beheadings, mutilations, public executions, torture, rape, mass murder, and so on. What is conveniently overlooked by those who hate Columbus is that Christianity has been fighting these elements in our world for over two thousand years, yet the twisted attitudes of today vilify the very Christian culture that has always seen these things as evil and sought to dispel them.
RE: your #18 post - totally agree!
I think the first Indians that Columbus encountered were Tainos. The Caribs were more ferocious and practiced cannibalism...in fact, our word "cannibal" comes from Carib. Giovanni da Verrazano, the explorer who found the Verrazano Narrows (at the mouth of the Hudson River) was eaten by cannibals on a later voyage to the West Indies.
Vikings, of course, we may get duped, but we do not get enslaved! (As a historian, I'm allowed to say it, even if I can't prove it, because I have a degree! On second thought, if I became a democrat I wouldn't even need a degree!)
Didn't he visit many islands on his first journey?
Didn't the Vikings enslave each other? What did they do with all the women they captured when they raided the other Viking villages?
In the battle of cultures European culture of that day beat the indian culture. No big deal. We won get over it
wining = wHining
Try reading THE DISCOVERY AND CONQUEST OF MEXICO by BERNAL DIAZ del CASTILLO.
All that was great about their civilization was colored by canabilism and daily human sacrifice.
The Dominican Republic has its modern name because Columbus chose the name Santo Domingo, after his father's patron saint.
Shhhh... If you burst my bubble, my ego will be hurt, my slef-esteem will deteriorate and I will, obviously, need the help a state appointed psychologist to help me out of my depression. After therapy I will actively seek to alter all the books you have ever read that could lead you to form such a gross mischaracterization of the loving, kind, gentle, tender and sweet Vikings that you have just disparaged. Now, repeat after me: Vikings enslave, they are not enslaved!
I think the Vikings tended to enslave people of the countries they raided.
***You're thinking of the wrong natives, that was over in Mexico and Peru. Columbus landed on Hispaniola, which had fairly primitive agricultural and hunter tribes. ***
Check your history. Colombus found Awarak indians being killed and eaten by the Caribe indians. He wrote of finding captive pregnant Awarak indian women kept solely because the Caribes liked fresh cooked new born babies.
Besides, if Colombus had not found the New World the Portugeese would have found it a few years later.
And if the Indians had found Europe first they would have brought all of those EU diseases home with them.
Archaeological digs in Canada have indicated that cannibalism was far more widespread in pre-European North America than most people are aware of.
I apologize for my vicious attack on your heritage, my bad.
And for the record, I like the Vikings. Moss is one of my favorite players.
The Atlanteans were never enslaved!
In all fairness, we should retain Columbus Day. But we might also consider an Aztec "Cut out a living heart" day as well, in order to honor the other American cultures of the time.
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