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This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies.
Locked on 01/11/2004 7:18:13 AM PST by Lead Moderator, reason:

OK, we are getting back into the old patterns of things, so maybe this will snap people back to the fact that I am determined to not have the old pattern return. On this thread, there was a ton of baiting, a ton of personal attacks, some veiled racism, and quite a few posts that striked me as literally indicative of insanity on the part of the poster— if the poster meant what he said. Y’all have to do a better job self-policing or these discussions won’t happen. And I do not buy the argument that one side wants that to happen. I see threasds where one side starts it, I see threads where the other side starts it. I see threads started where it seem the person posting the thread is the one who is doing things to start the thread down the path to being pulled, backroomed, or locked. I’m going to post to the individuals I see doing these unconstructive things but anyone who thinks “I am talking about them not me” is not getting the point. Everyone can do their part to make these threads better. Even someone who never has posted anything which is bad can help by helping to tell those they agree with on issues to back off when they are doing things like flaming or tinfoiling or baiting. This is going to take effort, and some are making it and some are not. Please make it.



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Hill Cool to Bush Immigration Plan
Washington Post ^ | 1/11/04 | Helen Dewar

Posted on 01/10/2004 9:33:03 PM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

click here to read article


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To: Orangedog
Based on your post #18, your dog sure does hunt. The fox is being chased.

But Bush's disastrous illegal immigration plan is NOT the way to combat this. All it does is continue to help destabilize and marginalize us down the drain -- and FALL RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS! All in the name of rewarding lawbreakers instead of enforcing legal citizen-taxpayer rights.

And in the meantime, all the clueless supporters of this disgusting proposal conveniently attack anyone against illegal immigration as being from the "loony right" or white racists.

The average American has not even BEGUN to identify the racists who support illegal immigration into our country.

WHY does the Republican leadership -- with this just-plain-bad, same-old illegal immigration plan -- want to completely undo all of the good it has accomplished in other areas on behalf of this country?
151 posted on 01/11/2004 3:13:38 AM PST by MissouriForBush
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To: BlackbirdSST
In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to read blathering post from so called Conservatives, read that lefty infiltrators, harping and carping and championing Big Government Socialist. Welcome to the real world. Blackbird.

If your "real world" is one where "socialists" are anti-abortion, anti-tax and pro-defense, then it's certainly a far, far different one that that which all the rest of us have been calling the "real" one all these years. Put down the crack pipe, and back away slowly.

REAL conservatives work to thwart REAL liberal extremist threats. Here in the real world, that threat is (in all likelihood) Howard Dean, come November; and the only realistic means of blocking same is GWB. If simple reality causes your panties to knot all in a bunch, sweetcheeks... then: politics may not be your game, after all. Try something more effeminate, like cribbage or Mah-Jong.

152 posted on 01/11/2004 3:16:04 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: TommyUdo
There's more but my Computer has a Baloney Filter in the Reg Tray and it's flashing.

Try this, remove your hands from the keyboard. Did it stop flashing? Problem solved, the bill is in the mail. Blackbird.

153 posted on 01/11/2004 3:35:13 AM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: MattAMiller
Nobody will have excuses for breaking immigration law anymore and get tough measures can be introduced.

More promises broken from 1986, you know, the last round of amnesties. Blackbird.

154 posted on 01/11/2004 3:50:07 AM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Wipe your chin, tot.

Get off your knees, child. See, I can be as demeaning as you can troll. You're not trapped in Liberal Seattle, you love it there by choice. Blackbird.

155 posted on 01/11/2004 3:54:38 AM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: BlackbirdSST
See, I can be as demeaning as you can troll.

Possibly... but: neither as cleverly, nor with the same lucidity in word choice, punctuation and grammar.

The day I take some faux "conservative's" insult of trolldom to heart, sunshine: you'll get a memo from your masters at MoveOn.org, to that effect. I'm not the one busily reciting DU/Howard Dean talking points, and slaving feverishly to bring down a sitting Republican president.

I don't mind that your stated positions make no earthly sense -- that's your problem, after all -- and you're certainly entitled to define 'conservatism" anyway that Hillary tells you to best pleases you. Asking me to genuinely respect it, however, and to treat it as adult commentary, simply doesn't pass the barf test.

156 posted on 01/11/2004 4:01:14 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
See you at the Polls loser! Blackbird.
157 posted on 01/11/2004 4:18:33 AM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: BlackbirdSST
ME: I don't mind that your stated positions make no earthly sense -- that's your problem, after all -- and you're certainly entitled to define "conservatism" anyway that Hillary tells you to best pleases you. Asking me to genuinely respect it, however, and to treat it as adult commentary, simply doesn't pass the barf test.

CHILD: See you at the Polls loser!

Please don't bother wasting your mom's 200 free hours of AOL attempting to prove my case for me, moppet. I can manage just fine without you.

Interesting how you don't even bother to refute that you ARE, in fact, robotically reciting Dean/DU/MoveOn anti-Bush talking points; and that you ARE, in fact, attempting to unseat a sitting Republican president (not really very "conservative" of you, huh, kiddo?).

Tell Mad Howard for me, the next time you see him -- I presume that's simply a matter of rolling over and nudging him gently -- that he's going down in '04.

158 posted on 01/11/2004 4:26:57 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("The Clintons have damaged our country. They have done it together, in unison." -- Peggy Noonan)
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To: StormEye
But you're not welcome to redecorate and rearrange the furniture!

Excellent retort!

159 posted on 01/11/2004 4:40:33 AM PST by varon
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To: Zipporah
Kind of reminds me of the good old days of gridlock..Yep .. gridlock is a good thing..

......borderlock is even better ;-)

160 posted on 01/11/2004 4:45:42 AM PST by varon
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To: Mr. Mojo; ArneFufkin
Racist? For opposing the Prez's plan?

I see a pattern here.

Jorge steals the 'RATs issues and supporters of his Amnesty for Illegals plan steal the 'RATs playbook.

Disagree and you're a Racist, Sexists, Homophobe.

161 posted on 01/11/2004 5:31:01 AM PST by putupon (Bad names and dirty words per CFR, Socialized Medications, and Amnesty for Illegals.)
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To: WackyKat
"the ethnic cleansing of the gringos" has started?

Pardon me for pointing this out, but that is a bit nuts.

Regards

162 posted on 01/11/2004 5:51:39 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
"In a perfect world, of course: the posting of this story would mean that all the online nellies, yellowbellies and faux "conservatives" all darting about on these boards and whinnying to the effect that "Bush is a war criminal from HELL!" and suchlike would finally just settle the @#$% down, for a moment or two; take a deep, communal breath; go to their respective Happy Places, within themselves; and cease embarrassing themselves (and this board) with their pop-eyed hysterics."

There is certainly some truth to what you posted here. But there are two things that weren't helpful about your post. First, the #$%!. Yeah, sometimes we let that go and it is certainly better than throwing the f-bomb, but when we are trying to clean things up it is helpful if people avoid doing it.

Second, starting a thread with a statement about how one group is 'faux conservatives' is bound to lead to the very type of flame war that we can do without. There are undoubtably faux conservatives on that side. There are just as undoubtably faux conservatives on the other side. Agent provocateurs stir up crap from all sides. Maybe there is more on one side than the other, maybe not, but starting a thread by going down that path just invites the thread to be a Bushie/anti-Bushie flamewar over who are 'real conservatives'. Maybe those arguments are needed, but certainly not on most immigration threads. It ends up overwhelming the topic.

Thanks

163 posted on 01/11/2004 7:26:32 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: CyberAnt
And anyone who takes a different opinion has a non-functioning brain?

See how that can easily be taken as offensive or personal by someone?

Please, work with us here.

164 posted on 01/11/2004 7:31:09 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: WackyKat
Personal attack.

Note for those who end up reading this far in this thread, I am not pointing this out for WackyKat's benefit. He made it clear on another thread what he really thinks of Freepers and this place, and as such since he was so unhappy with you all and with us and our forum, I have escorted him off the forum.

That doesn't change the fact that his post here was a mindless one and its only purpose was to bring this thread down to a flamewar.

165 posted on 01/11/2004 7:35:26 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Cultural Jihad; Kevin Curry
Now this exchange is a bit harder. It started with a simple quotation of a Bible verse. The reply was creative, but when reading it I wondered if it was insulting to CJ or if it was just trying to make a point. I think it was the latter, but saw how it could be taken as the former.

Obviously, based on this reply, it was taken as the former. And the result was a reply calling KC unchurched and unshepherded.

I don't know, KC, if you were trying to mix an insult in your reply or not. You do. If you were, please stop doing it.

And CJ, you can help by not always reading everything in the most personally insulting (to you) way-- and by not taking the bait when you feel insulted by insulting back, even more directly.

From a Bible verse to insults in two posts, with each person having a case that they were responding appropriately to the post before them. That's a perfect example of what I mean when I say that we are going to need people to work with us to cut down on the crap.

Thanks, LM

166 posted on 01/11/2004 7:42:46 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: WRhine
Instead of just disagreeing, you had to make it an insult.

Why?

167 posted on 01/11/2004 7:44:25 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: ArneFufkin
Yes, he made a personal attack.

Does every personal attack need to be met in kind?

Kinda makes for a good rough-and-tumble exchange for you and the guy you are in it with, but it kinda makes for a flamewar distracting away from the thread for everyone else.

168 posted on 01/11/2004 7:45:59 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
"Perhaps being a highly excitable lunatic has begun playing hob with your reading comprehension"

Personal attack.

How on earth did you not think it was when you made it? Or do you think the rules should only apply to those who disagree with you?

169 posted on 01/11/2004 7:46:59 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: WRhine
Another personal attack.

I'm not going to point out each of them that you did on this thread. Suffice it to say, I am requesting you to severely curtail your flaming in the forum.

Get yer ya-yas out flaming over on the other forums you participate in, if you have an uncontrollable need to engage in it. Don't do it here.

170 posted on 01/11/2004 7:48:39 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: WRhine; ArneFufkin
And the unsurprising result of the earlier posts-- two guys making veiled (or unveiled) threats to beat each other up.

C'mon. We don't need this.

171 posted on 01/11/2004 7:50:14 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Sabertooth
And you get a kudos. We need more of this.

Thanks, LM

172 posted on 01/11/2004 7:50:45 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Shrub?

You sound like DUers and MoveOn-ers and DeanieWeenies.

Is that your intent? If not, you may want to reconsider that approach. Thanks, LM

173 posted on 01/11/2004 7:52:21 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: ArneFufkin
No, he shouldn't butt out.

There are people on several different sides of the immigration issue who are tired of the threads always degenerating into flamewars. The answer is partly for those who want to have the substantive discussions to actively help keep those threads from degenerating by pointing out to those bringing it down what they are doing.

We need more of that sort of butting in, not less.

174 posted on 01/11/2004 7:54:09 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Mr. Mojo
We also need more of what you did here. Calling people on race baiting is important, just as calling people on racism is important. Both racism and race baiting encourage the sort of racial acrimony which is such a destructive force in our society (and on our forum).
175 posted on 01/11/2004 7:55:57 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Cultural Jihad
Let's not quibble over WackyKat any longer. He's gone.
176 posted on 01/11/2004 7:58:20 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
I liked this reply. It comes across as a sincere attempt to calm someone who was too excited to calm down.
177 posted on 01/11/2004 7:59:51 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
Piling on and joining in. In hockey, you would be thrown out of the game for leaving the bench to join in a fight, while the guys fighting would be allowed to stay in the game.
178 posted on 01/11/2004 8:01:45 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Joe Hadenuf
You came onto a heated thread where tons of people were acting reprehensibly, and you made your point without joining in on the crap.

I've harshed on you a few times lately, and I just wanted to commend you, for being a better man on this thread than a lot of people on both sides of the issue.

Regards, LM

179 posted on 01/11/2004 8:04:11 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: BlackbirdSST
He baited, you bit.
180 posted on 01/11/2004 8:05:43 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
I thought you started this thread off on the wrong foot, and you have gotten progressively worse as the thread went on.

Don't do what you did on this thread again.

181 posted on 01/11/2004 8:06:40 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: BlackbirdSST
He baited again, you bit again.

Can't say I don't see why you would have here, but that isn't really the point. When the majority of the posts on a thread are flames, the whole topic of the debate is lost in the crud. And those who care about the issue are the ones who lose then, not the guy you are flaming, even if he flamed first or baited for it.

182 posted on 01/11/2004 8:08:48 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: putupon
And calling Bush Jorge helped your point exactly how?
183 posted on 01/11/2004 8:10:00 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: All
I counted, and out of 160 posts or so, about 20% were crap. Absolute crap.

It's got to change, or people are going to be shown the door to prevent them from running people off.

And I suggest you look closely. It was both sides doing it. Both sides. If you are thinking your side is justified in acting this way because of the way the other side acts, think again. Both are doing it to the point where that excuse doesn't cut it.

184 posted on 01/11/2004 8:12:31 AM PST by Lead Moderator
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