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Pope wants new international order to keep peace
Reuters | January 1, 2004 | Claire Soares

Posted on 01/01/2004 5:55:35 AM PST by HAL9000

VATICAN CITY, Jan 1 (Reuters) - The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace, Pope John Paul said in his New Year's Day address on Thursday.

The ghosts of 2003 -- when the United States invaded Iraq without United Nations approval -- dominated the pope's first speech of 2004.

"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

Speaking at Christendom's largest church, the pope urged people not to lose hope of finding peace in the Holy Land, which the Vatican feels is vital to winning the war on terror.

"The land in which Jesus was born sadly continues to live in a dramatic condition. And in other parts of the world sparks of violence and conflict have not been extinguished either. But we need to persevere and not bow to the temptation of losing hope."

Turning to Africa, the pope paid tribute to his Burundi ambassador, Michael Courtney, killed on Monday in an ambush the army has blamed on rebels who have refused to join a peace process to end a 10-year conflict.

"(He) was tragically killed...while he was going about his mission of promoting dialogue and reconciliation. We pray for him and hope his example and sacrifice will bear the fruits of peace in Burundi and the world," the pope said.

The leader of the world's one billion Catholics, who suffers from Parkinson's disease that makes it difficult for him to talk, seemed alert and read all of his homily in a clear voice.

But it is unclear what 2004 holds for him. For the first time since his election in 1978, the pope enters the new year with no firm plans for travel, although there have been some invitations.

He was particularly weak on his last foreign trip, a visit to Slovakia in September, when aides had to read most of his addresses for him.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: johnpaulii; newnwo; pope; un; unitednations
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To: ninenot
The first order of business is to "inquisitionate" the little Catholic Basher Homos who wrongly accused this fine man.


301 posted on 01/01/2004 12:50:35 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: F.J. Mitchell; GirlShortstop
But if you read the Pope's speech, he makes it VERY clear that he thinks the UN is ineffective due to duplicity of its members and cantankerous stupidity from OTHER members.

He's not exactly awarding the UN the Blue Ribbon for doing a job well...
302 posted on 01/01/2004 12:52:26 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: Bluntpoint; ninenot
who wrongly accused this fine man.

You have become quite warped.
303 posted on 01/01/2004 12:53:30 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: Tao Yin; BlackElk; Bluntpoint

304 posted on 01/01/2004 12:53:33 PM PST by Polycarp IV
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To: ninenot
But if you read the Pope's speech, he makes it VERY clear that he thinks the UN is ineffective due to duplicity of its members and cantankerous stupidity from OTHER members.

Would you post that part of the speech please, in English!

305 posted on 01/01/2004 12:54:37 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
The first order of business is to "inquisitionate" the little Catholic Basher Homos who wrongly accused this fine man.

Maybe you could point out all the Catholic Freepers who were defending him.

306 posted on 01/01/2004 12:54:58 PM PST by Hacksaw (theocratic Confederate flag waving loyalty oath supporter)
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To: Bluntpoint
Actually, Geoghan WAS our first order of business. But we were wasting time assembling the tools: racks, Iron Maidens, firewood, ...

and lost our opportunity.
307 posted on 01/01/2004 12:55:04 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: Bluntpoint
<>i>7. It must be acknowledged, however, that the United Nations Organization, even with limitations and delays due in great part to the failures of its members,

There's more--the whole speech is posted at (roughly) #253

308 posted on 01/01/2004 12:57:54 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: ninenot
There's more--the whole speech is posted at (roughly) #253

It was very charitable of you ninenot to oblige its request ... turn the other cheek sorta thing.
Nice going!  FReegards.

309 posted on 01/01/2004 1:01:54 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: GirlShortstop
Warped?

I have Catholic In-laws! The insufferable, everything is better Catholic variety.


310 posted on 01/01/2004 1:03:09 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: ninenot
But we were wasting time assembling the tools: racks, Iron Maidens, firewood, ...

I have a case of Miller Lite, what ya doing later?

311 posted on 01/01/2004 1:05:31 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: ninenot
Thanks!
312 posted on 01/01/2004 1:06:09 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: CAtholic Family Association
Shouldn't that be written in Latin and hidden away, so we couldn't possibly find it much less understand what is says?
313 posted on 01/01/2004 1:06:22 PM PST by Gal.5:1
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To: HAL9000
The senile old fart has morphed into Karl Marx. Great, just great.
314 posted on 01/01/2004 1:06:35 PM PST by Beck_isright ("Deserving ain't got nothing to do with it" - William Money)
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To: Bluntpoint
I have Catholic In-laws! The insufferable, everything is better Catholic variety.

Differing diametrically to the ABC¹ variety you'd prefer?

¹anything but catholic

315 posted on 01/01/2004 1:08:16 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: Major_Risktaker
Good points.
316 posted on 01/01/2004 1:08:20 PM PST by G.Mason ( Oh Hillary? ....... GWB is waiting.)
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To: GirlShortstop
Your so cheeky!


317 posted on 01/01/2004 1:09:39 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: HAL9000
"The land in which Jesus was born sadly continues to live in a dramatic condition. And in other parts of the world sparks of violence and conflict have not been extinguished either."

Does even the Pope have to beat around the bush, for the sake of Politcal Correctness?

The name of the problem is "Islamist Terrorism" your holiness.

318 posted on 01/01/2004 1:13:01 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: HAL9000
Pope is right. The time has come, long ago really, to disband the UN and start over.
319 posted on 01/01/2004 1:14:21 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: ninenot
"... he cannot simply resign himself and the Church to accepting, apathetically, the status quo."

No, but he has no business calling for a cure that's worse than the disease. God showed what he thought of man's "international order" when He confused languages at the tower of Babel.

Helping the poor is feasible, as long as you don't start indulging fantasies of "ending" it. That's impossible in this life, per Jesus. (Some poverty is self-inflicted via laziness/alcohol-drug abuse/pride...how does one "end" that?)

Trying to avoid war is feasible, but "ending" war is not. Avoiding it for as long as possible between outbreaks is hard enough, and ironically--for those who can't face the reality and necessity of war--is staved off by being militarily powerful enough to discourage would-be attackers.

Again, how can one come away from the Bible with illusions about man and his ability to live a righteous life? The Bible doesn't even offer "world peace": it offers peace to those who "call on the Name of the Lord".
320 posted on 01/01/2004 1:15:11 PM PST by avenir ("If there's one thing I can't stand, it's being tortured by someone with cold hands"--Dr. Who)
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To: RightWhale
Why can't he say that?
321 posted on 01/01/2004 1:15:18 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
You may have been responding to another post than mine.
322 posted on 01/01/2004 1:18:18 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: RightWhale
"Pope is right. The time has come, long ago really, to disband the UN and start over."

Why can't he just say that?

323 posted on 01/01/2004 1:19:37 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
Okay. I think he did say that.
324 posted on 01/01/2004 1:20:27 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Victorious
Keep preaching brother!
325 posted on 01/01/2004 1:21:56 PM PST by pctech
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To: RightWhale
Disband? Or just find another feasible alternative to the U.N. that could do a better job at undermining the U.S. than the present international body?

Seems to me that most folks are upset with the U.N. because the U.S. has told them to get bent and they have no credible comeback.
326 posted on 01/01/2004 1:25:04 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
Being from Milwaukee, I think Miller Lite sucks. But for a case or two of Sprecher (also a Milwaukee product, and REAL BEER), we can get together.

We still have a parts-list of necessary components and several vacancies on the jury and warrant/arrest teams.
327 posted on 01/01/2004 1:26:24 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: HAL9000
Could someone provide me a source where the Pope condemned the human rights abuses committed by Saddam Hussein?
328 posted on 01/01/2004 1:27:00 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Bluntpoint
We are starting with the view that the UN is operating beyond its charter and ought to be dismantled. It is good that the Pope has spoken in defense of this view. Shut down the UN and start over.
329 posted on 01/01/2004 1:27:55 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: ninenot
Yeah, I was real impressed with the Crusades and the Inquisition inspired and lead by your church. Yes, you do have a magnificent record on human rights. LOL!

I have little empathy for the lazy who refuse to work. That's what the other thread is all about. Socialism is also something your church is noted for pushing.
330 posted on 01/01/2004 1:29:33 PM PST by nmh
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To: avenir
Ummmm...

It's YOUR conclusion that the cure JPII wants is "worse than the disease." Interesting, because the cure he calls for has NOT YET BEEN IMPLEMENTED anyplace (another point he makes in the actual speech, posted on this thread around #253??)

Thanks for agreeing that working towards the good is not in conflict with Scripture. IIRC, the text you should concentrate on is: "Be perfect, as My Heavenly Father..."

I'll work on that, too.
331 posted on 01/01/2004 1:30:55 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: Desdemona
This is from Rueters. Take it with a grain of salt.

They're QUOTES. Do you think Reuters made them up from thin air?

MM

332 posted on 01/01/2004 1:34:28 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: nmh
"Socialism is what your Church is pushing"

Wrong--as you are most of the time.

But pure mercantilism/pure capitalism are equally moral evils, and the Church will not fail to point that out.

You may worry only about yourself; it's your privilege. Hope when you're in a foxhole that that particular attribute is not clear to your buddy--'cause he may just get the same disease.

That would be a loss. /sarcasm
333 posted on 01/01/2004 1:35:01 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: ninenot
Dude, I'm getting the vapors!!!
334 posted on 01/01/2004 1:37:14 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: MississippiMan
Reuters has been known to take things out of context and, thus, changing their meaning. Without the complete text and an understanding of where the speech was going, not the interpretation of the writer, it's very possible that additional comments demonstrated a different idea.

And yes, Reuters has been known to misquote.
335 posted on 01/01/2004 1:37:36 PM PST by Desdemona (Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
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To: BlackElk
Ya gotta go with Rome on the religious stuff if you are a Christian.

Being a Christian is not about "religious stuff", it is about having a personal relationship with God through the Savior, Jesus Christ.

336 posted on 01/01/2004 1:50:48 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Republican Wildcat
Now you are in trouble.
337 posted on 01/01/2004 1:51:41 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: GirlShortstop
I won't argue with that...but, why do we have to conclude that by deductive reasoning? Why does he openly bash the U.S. and give ol' Saddam a pass for his atrocities?
338 posted on 01/01/2004 1:53:19 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: MississippiMan
They're QUOTES. Do you think Reuters made them up from thin air?

Wouldn't be the first time. Or that second of all frauds... selective edited quotes.

339 posted on 01/01/2004 2:01:12 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: WackyKat
I can quote as much about medieval history as anyone present, but would not be so unconscious as to insert the only thing one apparently knows irrelevantly into a discussion about a world body presumed to enforce a peace, in the 20th and 21st centuries.
I promise not to cite any similar atrocities committed throughput Europe during the same period. Or the brutalities committed by Islam. I have enough sense to stay on topic.
340 posted on 01/01/2004 2:10:15 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: WackyKat
All of which pales in comparison to the centuries of executions and extra-judicial killings of tens of thousands of people for "heresy" by the Catholic church in Europe.

I know the year is still young, but this will be a good contender for the most abysmally ignorant (and easily documented) repeated myth of the year.

Centuries? Good grief!

341 posted on 01/01/2004 2:15:51 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Publius6961
I can quote as much about medieval history as anyone present, but would not be so unconscious as to insert the only thing one apparently knows irrelevantly into a discussion about a world body presumed to enforce a peace, in the 20th and 21st centuries.

Why does the Pope condone this?


342 posted on 01/01/2004 2:19:05 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: 10mm
His Holiness should be exhorting Christian Warriors to smite the Muslim devils and drive them from the Holy Land.

Amen.

343 posted on 01/01/2004 2:20:01 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: ninenot
tell us all about how Rome suppressed Gal'o. Please.

Who is this fellow Galileo, anyway? One would think that according to Alleykat (and the pervert contingent), the Catholic church ought to be really good at suppressing stuff, so we obviously know nothing about Galileo. Or what he believed. Or who helped him. or....
I hate it when things refuse to stay suppresed!

344 posted on 01/01/2004 2:21:39 PM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: HAL9000
Well your holiness, you and yours do whatever you wish...we will do whatever we need to do to defend ourselves and our allies. Anyone who gets in the way is fair game.
345 posted on 01/01/2004 2:23:15 PM PST by CWOJackson
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To: CAtholic Family Association
Please tell me what this personal interpretation of scripture is.

We are saved by grace, through faith, for works. Pretty easy to understand. This is not an interpretation of scripture. This is the essence.

The Catholic Church is fallible. The Pope is fallible. God is infallible. The Word is infallible. Pretty easy to understand.

So now you have a catchy acronym: Yopios. Very cute, but no substance. You are still misguided.

My favorite is the transubstantiation. I can see the swinging watch; hear the hypnotic voice. “Your senses are lying to you. There is no bread; there is no wine. There is only body and blood. Believe in the Catholic Church.” This is the most ridiculous thing every. I do believe that the body and blood are present, but so is the bread and the wine.

Didn’t the Catholic Church also say that the Earth was the center of the universe? I can hear the hypnotic voice again. “Your science is lying to you. The Earth is at the center of the universe. Believe in the Catholic Church.”

You guys crack me up. I believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I do not believe in the Catholic Church. My faith is built on the rock; belief in Jesus. My faith is not built on a religious institution created my man.
346 posted on 01/01/2004 2:28:28 PM PST by Tao Yin
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To: HAL9000
I respectfully disagree.

Same here.

347 posted on 01/01/2004 2:29:18 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: nmh
Socialism is also something your church is noted for pushing.

Ignorance is not an excuse in a court room or on the web.

The fundamental error of socialism is anthropological in nature. Socialism considers the individual person simply as an element, a molecule within the social organism, so that the good of the individual is completely subordinated to the functioning of the socio-economic mechanism. Socialism likewise maintains that the good of the individual can be realized without reference to his free choice, to the unique and exclusive responsibility which he exercises in the face of good or evil. Man is reduced to a series of social relationships, and the concept of the person as the autonomous subject of moral decisions disappears.

Pope John Paul II
May 1, 1991 - from Centesimus Annus

348 posted on 01/01/2004 2:33:32 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: CAtholic Family Association
Welcome back. Stick around again.
349 posted on 01/01/2004 2:36:56 PM PST by cebadams (much better than ezra)
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To: HAL9000
The civilized world tried the soft touch diplomacy on hitler, did it work? The terrorists are many times more blood thirsty than hitler, would a soft touch diplomacy by an impotent UN work? How soon the Pope forget WWII. The terrorist will never be appeased, not until there is only one religion, that is islam and Western Civilization is no more.
350 posted on 01/01/2004 2:51:15 PM PST by desertcry
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