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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 11-13
Various | November 10, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/10/2003 8:35:02 PM PST by sweetliberty

(Thread 7 - November 11-13)

Link back to thread 6 - (Nov.8-10)
Link back to thread 5 - (Nov. 5-7)
Link back to thread 4 - (Nov. 3-4)
Link back to thread 3 (Nov. 1-2)
Link back to thread 2 - (Oct. 30-31)
Link back to thread 1 - (Oct. 29)


Contained in Thread 6:

*Correction on thread 6. In the heading where it says, "contained in thread 4," it should read, "contained in thread 5."

Contact information for Judge Greer, probate documents listed for Terry and Michael Schiavo, article from April, 2001 when Terri's feeding tube was ordered by Judge Quesada to be put back in pending deposition of Cindy Shook Brashers, link to clip of Steve Schiavo calling in to Glenn Beck's program, link to information on Schiavo/Centonze property value, link to transcript of On the Record interview with Ken Connor, link to American Patriot Friends Network, link to website, article about the testimony of Trudy Capone, link to post about co-sponsor of Terri's Bill in the House, Frank Attkisson giving legal reasons for the need for intervention on Terri's behalf, link to Hospice Patients Alliance website, statement that 9 neurologists have said that Terri is NOT in a PVS, Washington, information via email/fax, summary of legal expenses that Schiavo paid out of the money awarded to him for Terri’s care and rehabilitation, also see chart here for summary of legal expenses, This Round to Terri, But Fight Not Over article in Catholic Standard & Times (10/23/2003), another article, Schindlers Wonder What Happened the Night Terri Collapsed form Catholic Standard and Times:, and a serious question that is raised and needs to be researched.

Also in thread 6 (breaking it down into 2 paragraphs due to the length): information on holdings of Jodi Centonze, was Terri beaten(?), liability claims against Terri’s doctors, chronology of cases against Michael Schiavo, Schiavo v. Bush, who’s paying hospice(?), some quotes from George Felos’ book here and here, Jodi Centonze insurance connections, link to Village Voice article: Lying about Terri Schiavo, federal prohibition of use of funds for assisted suicide and euthanasia, the model husband according to George Felos (also see addition here), findings of Florida medical board on Dr. Hammersfahr and some facts about Judge Greer regarding this case.


Click on pic for Terri's website

This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

Latest threads on Terri's Case

Terri's Parents File Amicus Briefs to Defend "Terri's Law"

Judge Rejects Bush Effort in Schiavo Case

Please Act On Behalf Of Terri Schiavo And “Terri’s Law”

Bush facing court test to defend Terri's Law

Brother Of Michael Schiavo Defends Life-Support Decision

Schiavo tapes: snippets, then not much

House speaker Byrd defends law keeping brain-damaged woman alive

Terri Schiavo's parents discuss their pain, heartache & resolve

TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; cultureofdeath; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
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To: sweetliberty
In her purse? LOL! I think she'd make a wallet out of them. ;-)
281 posted on 11/13/2003 3:08:33 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: sweetliberty; pc93
My dream choice would still be Ann Coulter. She'd have Felos' b**ls in her purse.

LOL! so true!

I need some help. I am looking for a document. It was the doctors notes from Mediplex(?)(not sure about that). It is the document that stated Terri was making progress. It was on but that url now takes you directly to any idea where I could find this one? I've looked at terrisfight but I don't see it there.

282 posted on 11/13/2003 3:18:05 PM PST by wisconsinconservative (Christian, Conservative.......and proud of it)
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To: FL_engineer; sweetliberty; Robert A. Cook, PE; Robert Drobot; pc93; HiTech RedNeck; sfRummygirl; ...
I assume you have, but in case not, have you seen this article?
Federal Judge Dismisses Parents' Lawsuit in Terri Schiavo Case

October 2003

...the hospice workers responsible for removing the tube may have to choose between violating Judge Greer's order or Florida law. Under Title 46, Chapter 825, Section 102 (3)(a) of the Florida Criminal Statutes, the crime of "neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult" occurs as the result of:

"A caregiver's failure or omission to provide an elderly person or disabled adult with the care, supervision and services necessary to maintain the elderly person's or disabled adult's physical and mental health, including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine and medical services that a prudent person would consider essential for the well-being of the elderly person or disabled adult."

283 posted on 11/13/2003 3:22:40 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: wisconsinconservative
Could this be it?
284 posted on 11/13/2003 3:22:55 PM PST by Chocolate Rose
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To: sweetliberty
I was just reading on another thread that Ann Coulter mentions Terri in her column.
285 posted on 11/13/2003 3:31:22 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: nicmarlo; FL_engineer; Budge
Weren't one of you collecting info on an accounting of award money?

Emergency motion in right-to-die case Family seeks delay of ruling on removal of woman's feeding tube

Posted: November 14, 2002

...Schiavo was awarded $630,000 in damages in a malpractice suit in 1992 based on this explanation. Some $1.7 million also was awarded and placed in a medical-care fund for Terri. Schiavo stands to inherit the money upon Terri's death.

At this point, however, the medical fund is nearly tapped. According to court records, Felos has filed a series of petitions seeking reimbursement for attorney fees totaling $358,434. In July of 1998, shortly after Felos filed Schiavo's motion to remove the feeding tube, the total in the fund was $718,000. As of last month, $110,000 remained.

286 posted on 11/13/2003 3:32:35 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: All
Is Oprah scheduled for tomorrow, Friday 14th?
287 posted on 11/13/2003 3:36:46 PM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift mine eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: pollywog
Yes. See post # 272 by floriduh voter
288 posted on 11/13/2003 3:42:01 PM PST by Chocolate Rose
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To: atruelady
I came upon this activist group, nothing yet on the Americans With Disabilities Act.

Not Dead Yet, The Resistance
OCTOBER 14, 2003

Starvation of Terri Schiavo is the Future of Hospice

FOREST PARK, IL: Disability activists are saying the impending starvation of a brain-injured woman in a Florida hospice confirms their worst fears about "end of life" advocacy. Representatives of Not Dead Yet, a national disability rights group opposed to legalization of assisted suicide and euthanasia, claim that the impending starvation of Terri Schiavo is both the tip of the iceberg and a sign of what's to come.

"Terri Schiavo is going to be killed in the hands of a hospice facility operated by the Hospice of the Florida Suncoast," says Stephen Drake, research analyst for Not Dead Yet. "This organization is one of the regional 'Rallying Points' of Last Acts, a mega-funded project which coordinates 'end of life' advocacy around the United States. The CEO of Hospice of the Florida Suncoast is on the board of directors of Partnership for Caring, the organization that coordinates funding for the 'Rallying Points.' Both organizations have received some of the estimated 150 million dollars the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation has invested in 'end of life' concerns."

Drake also notes that George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, was chair of the board of Hospice of the Florida Suncoast until he took Michael Schiavo on as a client. Since then, Felos has reportedly pocketed most of the $700,000 awarded for Terri's medical care in legal fees to end her life....

289 posted on 11/13/2003 3:42:26 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

That's more money than was orginally mentioned. I thought it was 1.2 million.
290 posted on 11/13/2003 3:44:15 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: sweetliberty

Remove Dennis Kucinich's
feeding tube!

Posted: November 13, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 Universal Press Syndicate

In the current battle over whether to remove the
feeding tube from Florida woman Terri Schiavo,
the basic positions are:

She is in a permanent vegetative state; no
she's not.

She is unconscious and does not react to
stimuli; yes she does.

She will never get any better; yes she will.

She would not have wanted to be kept on a
feeding tube; you don't know that.

The only thing everyone seems to agree on is that
the husband is creepy. Terri's parents are fighting
like mad to keep Terri alive. The husband, Michael
Schiavo, is living with another woman with
whom he has one child and is expecting another.
Yet he has mounted a monumental crusade to
have Terri's feeding tube removed.

Terri is not brain-dead and requires no
extraordinary means to be kept alive. She is
breathing, her heart is pumping, her organs are
functioning. All she needs is food and water. (Of
course, all three are technically true of Kate Moss,
too.) But her husband wants to starve her to
death. As Larry King asked him, why not "walk

That is the eternal mystery of this case. Assuming
everything Michael says about Terri is true – she
has no consciousness, she will never recover, and
she would not want to live with feeding tubes –
well, then, she's not in pain, bored, angry or upset.
Dennis Kucinich has been in a persistent
vegetative state for 20 years – how about not
feeding him? Why is Michael Schiavo so obsessed
with pulling Terri's feeding tube? Why can't he
just walk away?

Michael's answer to Larry King was this: "Why
should I, Larry? This is Terri's wish. This is Terri's
choice." As King pointed out, Terri's alleged
"wish" was not memorialized anywhere in
writing, only in Michael's memory. Michael
responded to this point by invoking the courts:
"It's been decided for six years of litigation that
this was Terri's wish."

I note that "six years of litigation" is not enough to
end the lives of child-molesting serial killers on
death row. The same people who want to kill Terri
believe that death-row cases are never final, no
matter how many courts and juries have spoken
over how many decades.

Moreover, it's not as if court after court has heard
testimony on Terri's wishes and have all
unanimously agreed that Terri would have chosen
death. One lone Florida circuit court judge, George
Greer, credited Michael's testimony, finding "clear
and convincing" evidence that Terri said she
would not want to be kept alive on feeding tubes.
Because Judge Greer was acting as the finder of
fact, his finding is essentially unreviewable by any
other court. Even the notorious Florida Supreme
Court – which has a history of jumping in to try to
save a dead man – refused to review the case.

Judge Greer's finding on Terri's wishes may be
immune from legal review, but it's not immune
from criticism. He's a finder of fact – he's not God.
A few years ago, Judge Greer found that Helene
Ball McGee did not have reasonable cause to
believe domestic violence was imminent and
denied her an order of protection. Two weeks
later, Mrs. McGee was stabbed to death by her
husband. So judges can make mistakes.

Judge Greer's pivotal "finding of fact" in the
Schiavo case determining a life-or-death issue is
based on something Terri allegedly said after
watching a TV show. Michael didn't know his
wife was bulimic, but he distinctly remembered
Terri's remarks about a TV show. (It was an
episode of "Melrose Place," during which she said
that Heather Locklear's shoes were "to die for.")

After watching "Bambi," I'm against deer hunting.
Then I go out the next day and order venison.
Maybe we could have a higher standard of proof
before the government orders a woman to die.

Despite Michael's insistence that he has a vivid
memory of Terri expressing her wishes regarding
death, note this exchange on "Larry King Live":

KING: I have a 35-year-old daughter. I've never
asked her this question. I don't know if she has a
living will. I hope she does. But if she doesn't, I
don't know the answer to the question. Because
most 35-year-olds, I guess, don't talk about it.

SCHIAVO: Nobody talks about death, Larry.

Michael apparently forgot to add – except for that
one night I remember so clearly, Larry, when my
wife, Terri, talked to me about death and
expressed her firmly held desire not to be kept
alive on a feeding tube.

If you start making damning admissions on "Larry
King Live" – with your lawyer sitting next to you,
no less – you have a problem. Larry King can
interview Louis Farrakhan and make him look like
a charmer.

As even the New York Times admits, Michael did
not recall Terri's clearly stated desire to be taken
off life support until after the million-dollar
settlement was paid, most of it going for Terri's
medical costs – and the remainder to her husband.

What offhand comments might Terri have made if
she had read in the Baltimore Sun about Rod
Brandner, who indicated that he was coming out
of a coma by squeezing his son's hand in response
to questions less than two hours before his life
support system was to be turned off?

Or what if she had read the Associated Press news
story on Chris Trickle, who lost 5 percent of his
brain when he was shot in the head, but later
came out of a nine-month coma to breathe on his
own, eat three meals a day, and tell his girlfriend
he loved her?

What would Terri have said after hearing that
Gregory Dygas' mother refused to believe the
doctors' assurances that Gregory was brain-dead
and should be taken off life support, and six
months later watched as Gregory sat up, talked
and watched television?

What offhand remarks might Terri have made
after reading about Terry Wallis, the Canadian
man who just last summer awoke from a 19-year

Or how about that case in Minnesota last year
where the guy who'd been in a coma for decades
suddenly reappeared and ran for Senate? What
was his name? Walter Mondale?

(Note for the record: I want heroic measures taken
to keep me alive, and I demand the immediate
arrest of anyone trying to remove my life support.)

In the absence of a living will, I would think the
courts ought to be erring on the side of life. But
short of that, couldn't we at least all agree that the
courts should not defer to the pull-the-plug
demands from anyone who:

1.expresses an unseemly enthusiasm for
another person's death;

2.was the only person present when the
incident leading to the persistent vegetative
state occurred;

3.stands to make money off the person's
death; or wearing a "W.W.C.V.B.D.?" (what would
Claus von Bulow do?) bracelet?

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291 posted on 11/13/2003 3:48:25 PM PST by Snykerz
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To: pickyourpoison
that's what I thought, as well.
292 posted on 11/13/2003 3:50:29 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: pickyourpoison; sweetliberty
This is from ONE lawsuit:

2. In November 1992, in the trial of a medical malpractice action brought on Terri's behalf and styled Barnett Bank Trust Company v. C. Stephen Igel, MD, Pinellas County Circuit Case No. 92-939-15, Defendant Schiavo testified that he intended to care for his wife as long as she lived, that he intended to adhere to his wedding vows, that he felt "wonderful" about being married to Terri, and that he intended to learn more about nursing so he could care for his wife for the rest of his life.

3. At the time of this testimony and ever since the time of this testimony, Defendant was and has been and is romantically involved with a series of women not his wife, including a woman with whom he presently resides and to whom he refers as his "fiancee."

4. The malpractice jury awarded the Defendant $640,000 in damages for the loss of consortium of his wife Terri and awarded a net of $l.2 million in damages to Terri's guardian of the property.

But we know there were 2 other doctors sued by MS. One settled with him for $250,000 (Michael Schiavo v. Joel S. PRAWER, M.D.). The other "voluntarily" gave up his license...that was Michael Schiavo v. Dr. Robert NEUHARDT (and we don't know if he gave MS money, too).

So, add $640,000, $1,200,000, (the Barnett Bank case against Dr. Igel) and $250,000 (MS's case against Dr. Prawer)(at least) = $2,090,000....there may be other awards we don't know about, too (i.e., Dr. Neuhardt, possibly).

293 posted on 11/13/2003 4:08:58 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: pickyourpoison; sweetliberty
oops, link to article posting award money: Michael Schiavo Is Being Charged With Perjured Testimony and Fraud On the Court

From the website

294 posted on 11/13/2003 4:10:38 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Here's a $1.9 million figure:

Terri's parents have often suggested the same is true of Michael Schiavo and on their web site,, there is an extensive discussion of the $1.9 million won in Terri Schiavo's malpractice case and the fact that Michael Schiavo is the one who would inherit it when she dies.
295 posted on 11/13/2003 4:29:22 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: wisconsinconservative
PDF of originals from friends of Terri website

Entire PDF Reports ‘transcribed’ to FreeRepublic


Physical Examination -- 6 - 27 - 90

*patient is awake, eyes are open
*easily startled to her name or when bedrail fell down

*significant amount of tone in the head and neck.
*severe hypertonicity of all four extremities; plantar flexor contractures, some shoulder limitation
*"again, tone is quite significant in all four extremities and difficult to achieve range of motion of the left hip and knee while she is in a supine position."
*she does give eye contact to family members
*she will close her eyes to any threatening response around her face and blink appropriately
*no verbal output during this exam but it has been reported by husband and other family members and therapists over at College Harbor.

Treatment Plan Review from Mediplex rehab, Bradenton, 1/29/91

*Vocalizing when prone in P.T. [physical therapy]
*Occasionally will say "STOP" to nursing during procedures.

*to TR [recreation?] groups. More relaxed to therapists voice, touch (habituation)

3-15-91 Monthly summary

Ms. Schiavo was readministered the sensory stimulation assessment measure on March 13, 1991. The results show a slight increase in a few response areas . . .

296 posted on 11/13/2003 4:33:45 PM PST by cyn (
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To: sweetliberty
Since this seems to be a slow period re: breaking news about this case, I took a moment to go off on a diversion.

Years ago, I used to play around with anagrams so I wondered what I could come up with for M.S.

I came up with this: "Ah ha!  Cosmic Evil."

It seems appropriate.

297 posted on 11/13/2003 4:39:46 PM PST by isrul
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Doctors: Terri case not 'death with dignity' issue
October 22, 2003

But Dr. Jane Orient with the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, or AAPS, claims the opposite is true: "Dehydration is a cruel, painful death."

"It is unconscionable that the state ordered removal of her feeding tube in the first place – it's nothing less than state-sponsored euthanasia," maintains Orient. "She is not dependent on advanced medical interventions. Nothing is mechanically pumping her blood, or forcing oxygen into her lungs. She is simply being fed through a gastrostomy tube."

Last week the General Assembly of the Catholic Medical Association passed a resolution that concurred with Orient's view. It declared removal of Terri's feeding tube "without first undertaking rehabilitation therapy to ascertain her ability to swallow and digest nourishment" constitutes "depriving her of life without due process of law," according to Florida Statutes Section 744, 3211.

Would we allow a retarded child to be starved to death?" queries Orient. "Where are the 'compassionate end-of-life' groups such as the Robert Wood Johnson 'Last Acts' initiative, and why aren't they weighing in on this?"

Multiple physicians solicited by the Schindlers believe Terri, who vocalizes, laughs and appears to respond to her parents, could be rehabilitated to some extent. Some have even offered pro bono treatment, even though Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $1.5 million dollars in malpractice suits to pay for Terri's rehabilitation and nursing expenses shortly after her mysterious collapse at home in 1990 during which oxygen was cut off to her brain for several minutes.

298 posted on 11/13/2003 4:49:03 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Schiavo's husband says he'll fight back

Michael Schiavo's love for Terri will drive him to battle a new law that kept her alive, his attorney says.

By WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE, Times Staff Writer
Published October 24, 2003

...When doctors moved to reinsert Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube Tuesday, Bushnell said it appears that officials at Morton Plant Hospital in Clearwater, where Mrs. Schiavo was taken, had difficulty finding anyone to do the job. She said they may have been deterred by the threat of litigation.

Mrs. Schiavo's treating physician resigned, apparently refusing the job.

A doctor, whose identity has not been revealed, was located at about 11 p.m. on Tuesday, Bushnell said. A lawsuit against him or the hospital will be considered once the constitutionality of the statute is resolved, she said.

"At this time," Felos said, "we only have limited resources and energy. Our primary focus is to obtain a Florida state court order declaring the law unconstitutional."
299 posted on 11/13/2003 4:56:11 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

Terri Schiavo and the culture of death
by Charles Colson

...Two years after her trauma, Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, was awarded $2 million by a jury in a malpractice suit against her doctor. The money would go to keep her alive. At the trial, Mr. Schiavo testified that he believed his marriage vows—”till death do us part.”...

Well, Michael’s timeframe seems to have shrunk a bit.

300 posted on 11/13/2003 4:58:15 PM PST by nicmarlo
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