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Are Fathers' Rights a Factor in Male Suicide?
Fox News ^ | Wendy McElroy

Posted on 01/29/2002 11:25:19 AM PST by tarawa

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:32:27 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Are Fathers' Rights a Factor in Male Suicide?

In the early morning hours of Jan. 7, 43-year-old Derrick K. Miller walked up to a security guard at the entrance to the San Diego Courthouse, where a family court had recently ruled against him on overdue child support.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
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Also of note, evidently the harsh gun control laws of Britain and Ireland do absolutely nothing to prevent suicides. I guess that's just another inconvenient fact for the MMM and the VPC.
1 posted on 01/29/2002 11:25:19 AM PST by tarawa
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To: tarawa
I'm skeptical. The article starts out by giving numerical statistics about relative suicide rates. Then, when we get to the point of the article, all we have is claims which are barely anecdotal, and certainly not convincing.

For example: According to sociologist Augustine Kposow of the University of California at Riverside, divorce and loss of children is a factor. "As far as the [divorced] man is concerned, he has lost his marriage and lost his children and that can lead to depression and suicide," Kposow advises.

Or not -- we're given no data with which to evaluate his claim.

Likewise, The Australian study's suggested reasons for some of the suicides include "marriage breakdown."

OK, fine. I can see an Australian guy becoming depressed over a divorce. But how does this equate to U.S. Family Courts being a cause for suicide? Also, we're not told whether it explains 1% or 50% of male suicides -- which leads me to believe the actual value is quite small.

Considering the lack of any hard evidence to back up the claims, I have to put this in the "quack" stack.

2 posted on 01/29/2002 11:35:36 AM PST by r9etb
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To: riley1992, HomeSchoolMama
FYI
3 posted on 01/29/2002 11:43:34 AM PST by NC_Libertarian
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: NC_Libertarian
This article was posted a few weeks or so ago. The thread was long and emotionally intense.

I'll bow out this time but thank you for the ping. :o)

5 posted on 01/29/2002 11:49:30 AM PST by homeschool mama
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To: r9etb
I'm skeptical. The article starts out by giving numerical statistics about relative suicide rates. Then, when we get to the point of the article, all we have is claims which are barely anecdotal, and certainly not convincing.

Yet, the motivation for male suicide remains a matter for speculation because little research has focused on the subject.

I think the point of the article is that there is an apparent pattern and, since no research has been done, only anecdotal evidence can currently be presented. It would be good if a serious study was done in this area. I wouldn't put this in the quack pile just yet. Such studies, if they confirm the premis of the article, may be one way of implementing a balanced approach to family law. The current system seems to be woman get married and pregnant, get divorced, get money for nothing and screw dad in the process.

6 posted on 01/29/2002 11:55:24 AM PST by doc30
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To: homeschool mama
I'm with you on that one. I don't mind going through it once but how many times can you and I possibly reiterate our point and have it completely ignored?
7 posted on 01/29/2002 12:03:46 PM PST by riley1992
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To: riley1992; homeschool mama
Oh you two, heh heh heh. I have pretty much the same thoughts as you. This is going to be another thread that postulates that divorced father are worthless for anything other than becoming a cash cow for moms who deserve every dime they can get for giving up the best years of their lives, yada yada yada.

Yes men should pay some support when the funds are clearly used to support his and his former wife's children. But the responsibilites do not lie solely with the fathers. Those mothers have obligations that are not enforced. And nobody on these threads gives a damn about that.

Pardon the interruption everyone. Now back to those damned fathers that are worthless pigs.

8 posted on 01/29/2002 12:11:46 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: tarawa
Hope for the fathers and their families.
9 posted on 01/29/2002 12:24:10 PM PST by Salvation
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To: tarawa
Some judges push the FEMALE/ANTI-FAMILY agenda and others are just what they seem,"BLACK ROBED THIEVES"!
10 posted on 01/29/2002 1:04:42 PM PST by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: doc30
I think the point of the article is that there is an apparent pattern and, since no research has been done, only anecdotal evidence can currently be presented.

There are too many missing pieces here. For example, how many male suicides are under 21? How many are or have been married? Do Australian studies cross over to the U.S.?

And the big one: does correlation = causation in this case? And if it does, which is the cause and which is effect? I think it's more likely that the mental state that makes a guy prone to suicide makes him more likely to divorce?

IMHO there's no excuse for this Fox News article, except to further a victimological agenda.

11 posted on 01/29/2002 1:21:34 PM PST by r9etb
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To: tarawa
reference bump. Oh, and the article is right on. Why the he!! do you think they need metal detectors in family court. Some men would rather "take out" those responsible rather than themselves. The metal detectors prevent that, leaving some no other recourse than to turn the helpless frustration inwards in a violent way.
12 posted on 01/29/2002 1:31:54 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: r9etb
>>And the big one: does correlation = causation in this case?<<

I know he had a gun in one hand. But what was in his other hand??? Hmmm, I just wonder if that was part of the causation...

Ask virtually any man that has been through this if he thinks the article may strike a chord in him.

I repeat, any man.

13 posted on 01/29/2002 1:36:09 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: Salvation
Great link, Salvation. It's so sad to see anyone choose a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
14 posted on 01/29/2002 2:20:06 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: one_particular_harbour
Any "man" who would consider suicide(!) to get out of paying child support is a chickens*** bast*rd that the kids are better off without.

Usually it's the mom that's a motherf#@*ing b!%*# that uses the law to abuse her ex. Some of these men that killed themselves did so when the courts forced them to pay their ex more than they could earn, and their ex with the courts backing refused to allow these men visits with their children.

That happened to the friend of my wife, and since I've lost family members to suicide, I don't exactly excuse people for weaseling out like that.

You make it sound like just an option they took. Just maybe there is something wrong with the system - yes?!

15 posted on 01/29/2002 2:23:44 PM PST by disclaimer
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To: riley1992
You've got that right, riley.
16 posted on 01/29/2002 3:52:56 PM PST by homeschool mama
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To: DoughtyOne
***#1: Those mothers have obligations that are not enforced. And nobody on these threads gives a damn about that.

#2: Pardon the interruption everyone. Now back to those damned fathers that are worthless pigs.***

To #1: Absolutely correct!

To #2: ROFLOL!

17 posted on 01/29/2002 3:54:33 PM PST by homeschool mama
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To: homeschool mama
Grin. Did I leave anything out? Heh heh he.
18 posted on 01/29/2002 6:32:46 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: anniegetyourgun
Annie, Annie, Annie...

That temporary problem can run for 24 years. Does that sound temporary to you? One father was recently ordered to pay for his children's college education through the age of 24. Temporary? Come now.

19 posted on 01/29/2002 6:36:31 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
No wait is too long to have an impact on your child's life. A selfless father will wait as long as it takes to welcome his son/daughter into his life. And every child will eventually want to know him. But suicide to avoid financial payments is so low - hurting only the child.
20 posted on 01/29/2002 6:42:15 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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