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NTSB BIRDBRAINS STICKING HEADS IN ROCKAWAY SAND
NY Post ^ | December 2, 2001 | STEVE DUNLEAVY

Posted on 12/02/2001 2:36:46 PM PST by Map Kernow

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:02:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

LITTLE wonder the National Transportation Safety Board has bleated for help from NASA to help them out in the tragic crash of American Airlines Flight 587. The NTSB has shown in the past that it is run by a bunch of bumbling bureaucrats who couldn't find a needle in a thimble. Here they were with 265 dead, and God knows how many mourners, giving us this claptrap that the tail fell off mysteriously.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
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The government treating us like a bunch of morons over an aviation disaster? I'm shocked! This is absolutely unprecedented! [/sarcasm]
1 posted on 12/02/2001 2:36:46 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: Map Kernow
I heard that the Rockaway area was basically populated by firefighters and police...does anyone know if this is true?
2 posted on 12/02/2001 2:50:46 PM PST by ResistorSister
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To: ResistorSister
Well, it's not an exclusively cop and firemen area, but yes, they do live there in very disproportionately high numbers.
3 posted on 12/02/2001 2:52:16 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Map Kernow
Is there a forum like FR where all witnesses can post their sightings? Its pretty obvious that the powers that be don't want all the details out there as it doesn't fit into their nice packaged stories.
4 posted on 12/02/2001 2:53:22 PM PST by lelio
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To: Timesink
Thanks
5 posted on 12/02/2001 2:55:37 PM PST by ResistorSister
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To: Map Kernow
Another mysterious center fuel tank explosion?
6 posted on 12/02/2001 2:55:47 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: ResistorSister
I heard that the Rockaway area was basically populated by firefighters and police...does anyone know if this is true?

Well, I would say Rockaway is "heavily populated" by cops and firemen. People who work for the government. People committed to public order. People with a sense of patriotism and community. People who would strive for accuracy in recounting what they saw, wouldn't you think?

And let me say to anyone who wants to start in about the "inherent unreliability of eyewitness testimony"---just think about what might happen if you're ever a victim of a crime, and the only evidence to prosecute the perpetrator is your eyewitness testimony and that of a cop's. Puts things in a different perspective perhaps...

7 posted on 12/02/2001 2:57:55 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: lelio
I remember some eyewitness reports posted here after the crash where people didn't report seeing an explosion, but, of course, it's inconvenient for the foil-hatters to bring them up.

And one has to explain how the tail was found the furthest back along the flight path if it wasn't the first thing to fall off.

It's educational to look at all the posts last night about the Russian booster re-entering over the midwest..wildly varying descriptions of it, some people even describing it as a set of airplanes with contrails, etc.

8 posted on 12/02/2001 2:58:07 PM PST by John H K
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To: Map Kernow
And let me say to anyone who wants to start in about the "inherent unreliability of eyewitness testimony"---just think about what might happen if you're ever a victim of a crime, and the only evidence to prosecute the perpetrator is your eyewitness testimony and that of a cop's. Puts things in a different perspective perhaps...

Eyewitness testimony is better than none at all, but I'm familiar with the scientific tests and demonstrations where it's revealed to be ridiculously unreliable. Have you ever seen any of them?

9 posted on 12/02/2001 2:59:58 PM PST by John H K
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To: Map Kernow
Isn't that the same spin that was given for TWA Flight 700? Forgive me if I have the airline and flight number wrong. But I do remember many witnesses saying that they saw a projectile heading to the plane. Re: July 17.
10 posted on 12/02/2001 3:01:19 PM PST by ThePoetsRaven
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To: lelio
This forum covers this accident in great detail..... http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=12
11 posted on 12/02/2001 3:02:31 PM PST by moe
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To: John H K
I remember some eyewitness reports posted here after the crash where people didn't report seeing an explosion, but, of course, it's inconvenient for the foil-hatters to bring them up.

I'm not much for tin foil hats or conspiracy theories, however the first eyewitness reports I read claimed their were explosions in the air, these reports were from several people. I don't remember anyone who claimed to see the plane crash before exploding, but then I'm sure I could have missed these reports. I will do some thread searches later. As far as the tail being found first, if an explosion caused the tail to come off, I would expect it to not travel near as far as the rest of the plane, the engines, etc. simply due to the mass vs. drag of the varous components, the tail would likely "flutter" and slow down quickly, dropping to the water. I don't like tin foil hats, but then again I don't like theories that exclude what appears to be excellent eyewitness reports.

12 posted on 12/02/2001 3:10:13 PM PST by Enlightiator
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To: John H K
I'm given to believe that the engines coming loose due to loss of tail and imposing high lateral stresses then caused what observers described as 'explosions' as the engines ripped off ... with fuel lines ripped and various power cables being severed/shorted out providing the source of ignition ...
13 posted on 12/02/2001 3:10:47 PM PST by _Jim
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To: John H K
I remember some eyewitness reports posted here after the crash where people didn't report seeing an explosion, but, of course, it's inconvenient for the foil-hatters to bring them up.

Not at all. Now that you've brought up these alleged accounts, let's see if you can post them with links. Otherwise, keep your "tinfoil" invective off this thread---or explain why the two ordinary citizens whose eyewitness testimony is cited in the story are "tinfoil hatters."

And one has to explain how the tail was found the furthest back along the flight path if it wasn't the first thing to fall off.

No, one merely has to reconcile the eyewitness accounts with that fact, unless the only possible explanation for the tail's location in the debris field was that it "fell off first."

It's educational to look at all the posts last night about the Russian booster re-entering over the midwest..wildly varying descriptions of it, some people even describing it as a set of airplanes with contrails, etc

"Educational"? You mean that two eyewitness accounts by respectable citizens of Rockaway who saw Flight 587 directly overhead as it came apart are no more reliable than these accounts of a rocket booster re-entering the atmosphere at many, many times the altitude of Flight 587?

Yes, it's "educational," all right: it educates everyone that you want to intimidate everyone into disbelieving or rejecting these eyewitness accounts of the 587 air disaster, based on scurrilous charges that they're promulgated by "tinfoil hatters."

14 posted on 12/02/2001 3:11:02 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: John H K
Eyewitness testimony is better than none at all, but I'm familiar with the scientific tests and demonstrations where it's revealed to be ridiculously unreliable. Have you ever seen any of them?

Yes, I am. A lot of them are funded by defense counsel. I don't happen to believe that eyewitness testimony is inherently "ridiculously unreliable." We might as well chuck out our whole system of criminal justice if anyone really believed that.

Why don't you discuss what the witnesses saw, instead of pontificating about eyewitness testimony?

15 posted on 12/02/2001 3:15:06 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: Map Kernow
A neighbor who is a very level-headed American Airlines pilot told me that he's not convinced it was an accident. He said that, given the lack of security around the aircraft the night before the crash, it would have been very easy for a saboteur to make a few alterations on the plane. But he also said, sometimes freak accidents do happen.
BTW, he said he hates the Airbus and refuses to fly them.
16 posted on 12/02/2001 3:15:33 PM PST by EggsAckley
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To: John H K
What kind of odd forces would the engine mounts see, say, when the engines in question here are 1) fully spooled-up and 2) the tail is lost and 3) the craft begins to yaw about it's axis kind of wildly?

What kind of forces (in unusual directions) are on seen on those engine mounts due to gyroscopic precession?

17 posted on 12/02/2001 3:16:14 PM PST by _Jim
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To: John H K
And one has to explain how the tail was found the furthest back along the flight path if it wasn't the first thing to fall off.

Air resistance? A tail alone is much less aerodynamic than the rest of the plane.

18 posted on 12/02/2001 3:18:17 PM PST by zoso82t
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To: Enlightiator
As far as the tail being found first, if an explosion caused the tail to come off, I would expect it to not travel near as far as the rest of the plane, the engines, etc. simply due to the mass vs. drag of the varous components, the tail would likely "flutter" and slow down quickly, dropping to the water.

Indeed. One would not expect the tail or vertical stabilizer or whatever, as cleanly as it came off (whenever it came off) and as intact as it was, to follow a straight trajectory with the rest of the craft. I don't know what exactly happened, but I do know that finding the tail in a cerain place doesn't conclusively establish when it fell off, or in what sequence with respect to other parts of the craft it came off.

19 posted on 12/02/2001 3:22:24 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: Map Kernow
Well, I would say Rockaway is "heavily populated" by cops and firemen. People who work for the government. People committed to public order. People with a sense of patriotism and community.

Seems to me like terrorist might consider the Rockaway area as a prime target for an attack.

People who would strive for accuracy in recounting what they saw, wouldn't you think?

Yes...that is what I think.

20 posted on 12/02/2001 3:22:32 PM PST by ResistorSister
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