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Concerns Vs. Chaos in the Anthrax Scare
FoxNews ^ | Friday, October 12, 2001 | Steven Milloy

Posted on 10/11/2001 6:29:20 PM PDT by sendtoscott

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:31:23 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Bio-terrorism alarmists view last week

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 10/11/2001 6:29:20 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: tex-oma; Demidog; Ada Coddington; ouroboros
Good news, we're not all going to die.
2 posted on 10/11/2001 6:31:48 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: sendtoscott
Whoever wrote this ignorant garbages is a complete idiot.
3 posted on 10/11/2001 6:45:31 PM PDT by RLK
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: tex-oma
Dammit, quit thinking, Its War!!!
5 posted on 10/11/2001 6:58:20 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: sendtoscott
JunkScience, indeed.
6 posted on 10/11/2001 7:02:22 PM PDT by Clinton's a rapist
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To: sendtoscott
In a typical year, the flu kills 500,000 to 1 million people worldwide. In the United States, it infects about 10 to 20 percent of the population and causes about 20,000 deaths, plus 20,000 to 40,000 from a frequent complication, pneumonia.
My guess is some one took advantage of 9-11 to get even with a tabloid.
7 posted on 10/11/2001 7:06:28 PM PDT by big bad easter bunny
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To: sendtoscott
Excellent, excellent article. FOX should read it over and over again in place of all the other reporting that they are doing on anthrax. Would improve their coverage substantially.
9 posted on 10/11/2001 7:14:20 PM PDT by self_evident
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To: RLK
Whoever wrote this ignorant garbages is a complete idiot.

You've made an interesting statement, but you've made no substantive criticism of the article. What specific errors, mistakes, mistatements of fact make this article "garbage?" If the guy is wrong, I'd like to know why. If the article is so bad, then the mistakes should be fairly obvious and easy to explain.

WFTR
America's War Options.
Bill

10 posted on 10/11/2001 7:14:49 PM PDT by WFTR
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To: WFTR
Don't expect an intelligent reply.
11 posted on 10/11/2001 7:18:22 PM PDT by been_lurking
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: right_to_defend
Ruling out the nutcase if anthrax is being used as a weapon, they're succeeding. I don't think that the object is necessarily death, but to cause chaos and to tax the systems of government. It wouldn't surprise me if a case of pox or food poisoning etc., shows up somewhere in the country. A scare du jour so to speak.
13 posted on 10/11/2001 8:21:16 PM PDT by RJayneJ
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To: right_to_defend
Thanks for the post. You make reasonable arguments although I don't know whether you are correct. However, your answers raise some questions.

For instance, if the Florida anthrax came from terrorists and was made well enough to be a viable weapon, why didn't more people die? If the terrorists were capable of killing a large number of people last week, I see no reason why they would kill only a few but reveal the fact that they have this weapon. The article's answer to this question would seem to be that if this was a terrorist attack, they didn't have an anthrax source that could be deployed effectively. The article also gives several reasons why this kind of weapon might not be effective.

You think that the Iraqis may have active production of weapons-grade spores. The article says that this situation is unlikely because the technology that came from the Soviet Union would still need Soviet equipment to work. The article cites the fact that Iraqi missiles have rarely carried anthrax but would be expected to carry it if they had a viable supply of weapons-grade spores. Why do you disagree?

Again, I don't come to this argument with a strong opinion. I think that the article seems to make sense, but it could be completely wrong. I just want to explore the information.

WFTR
America's War Options.
Bill

14 posted on 10/11/2001 10:56:29 PM PDT by WFTR
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To: sendtoscott
Today I looked out the window and saw anthrax spores covering everything, still falling from the sky. It was everywhere, inches deep. Then I realized, wait! this is Fairbanks, and it is winter. First snow! Yay! [Well, first serious snow, there was some last week but not enough to screw up the roads.]
15 posted on 10/11/2001 11:03:26 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: WFTR
Greetings :) I agree with you. I believe they would have taken given us "all they had" if the tools were available and their mission plan was sound. The 'planning' of these 'masterminds' (yeah right) has broken-down once again. I saw an interesting post from a person on another news agency's forum; this person noted nearly 10 failures of the Taliban leadership, including the underestimation of the citizens of the US and their leadership. Furthermore, God bless the victims; they were the only thing between us and the 'evil doers' -- they gave their lives so we could polish the steel and crack our knuckles. It's not over, but I believe their ability to pull off large-scale calamities from here on out is significantly diminished. MM
16 posted on 10/11/2001 11:11:25 PM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: RLK
Whoever wrote this ignorant garbages is a complete idiot.

Do please grace us with the name of the university where you got your biology degree.

And while you're at it, go slap your English teacher, she didn't do a very good job.

(Am I nitpicking? Yes, but since RLK didn't make a single substantive point himself, I'm not left with much else to work with. An empty slur like his hardly deserves better.)

17 posted on 10/11/2001 11:15:25 PM PDT by Dan Day
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To: WFTR
For instance, if the Florida anthrax came from terrorists and was made well enough to be a viable weapon, why didn't more people die?

That's a good question, and to me it indicates that the Anthrax in the Florida case was *not* a weaponized version (or not a competently done one).

One article I've read of an in-depth series of interviews with one of the primary American experts on biological weapons includes an account of a demonstration of a "simulant" of weaponized anthrax. That is, it had the same physical properties of weaponized anthrax (disperal, etc.), but was not actually alive. The reporter said that when the lid was unscrewed from the jar, the superfine powder actually started "crawling" up the walls of the jar and a misty haze started billowing out. When the weapons expert flung some of it in the air, it rapidly expanded into an ever-widening cloud which quickly vanished into the air entirely as the particles spontaneously spread out.

It appears from the description that properly weaponized anthrax both consists of invisibly small particles, and the particles are treated such that they electrostatically repel each other, dispersing automatically.

As such, it "releases" itself whenever it is "uncorked" and expands to fill any available space.

Thus, if a truly weaponized anthrax had been released in the Sun building, it would have been *everywhere*, not just on one guy's keyboard and up only two other people's noses.

It doesn't sound to me as if the Florida case involved Anthrax that had been truly "militarized".

18 posted on 10/11/2001 11:31:23 PM PDT by Dan Day
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Greetings :) I agree with you. I believe they would have taken given us "all they had" if the tools were available and their mission plan was sound. The 'planning' of these 'masterminds' (yeah right) has broken-down once again.

Also note the lack of any "one-two punch" strike after all of bin Laden's *OTHER* terrorist strikes. The original WTC bombing was a one-off event with no planned followup. Likewise for the Cole attack, the Embassy bombings, etc. etc.

In each case, he hit us with all he could do, as soon as he could do it.

This is a guy who suffers from premature explosulation.

19 posted on 10/11/2001 11:34:06 PM PDT by Dan Day
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To: WFTR
Sure, I'll give you a few hints that aren't classified.

Even Iraq seems to know that its liquefied anthrax is virtually useless.

This statement is absolutely false. The full explanation of why should not be discussed here.

Even if the statement were true, obtaining dry powder anthrax is a simple task which would require about $10,000 worth of equipment, including safety equipment to protect against contamination during the process. I used to produce viable dry bacteria by the pound as a routine matter when I was in the business.

The author acts as if the bacterium, itself is the toxin and the effect of the bacterium is proportionante to the the number of bacteria infecting the body, or applied to the body. In reality, it only requires one bacterium to enter the bloodstream and take hold. That bug divides and becomes two bugs every 24 hours or so depending upon the bacterium and the condition of the person's body and resistance. So in ten days you have a thousand, and in 20 days you have a million, all feeding on tissue and producing toxins.

Essentially, the body should be looked upon as a petrie dish with surface barriers to prevent infection. If you put one bacterium on a petrie dish, in several days you come back to look, and the single bacterium has proliferated into a visible spot colony on the dish.

Consequently, in biological warfare there is a lag time between infection and serious disease onset. The lag time is determined by the initial number of bacteria first entering the body and the division rate of the bacterium. If you get a large number of entries into the body initially, the person becomes incapacitated sooner. If the initial number of entries is small, lag time between infection and incapacitation is longer.

One way or another, it only takes one bacterium to form a base for development of the disease.

It isn't worth my time away from other projects to discuss it further.

20 posted on 10/12/2001 12:42:18 AM PDT by RLK
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