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Call for Queen to lose title as head of Church
Orthodox news/Observer ^ | June 15, 2003 | Kamal Ahmed

Posted on 06/17/2003 3:05:23 PM PDT by MarMema

June 15, 2003 (Observer) -- The Queen should be stripped of her title as Supreme Governor of the Church of England so that the royal family better reflects the religious and ethnic diversity of the United Kingdom, according to a major report on the monarchy.

In what would be one of the most radical changes since Henry VIII became head of the church in England, the year-long commission on the Future of the Monarchy will argue in a report, to be published in the next fortnight, that the Queen should become a head of state not committed to any particular religion.

The commission, which was set up by the Fabian Society and received the full co-operation of Buckingham Palace, will say it does not want to see full disestablishment of the Church of England, but rather that it should lose its links to the monarchy.

Senior figures within the Church are known to be sympathetic to the findings. The Bishop of Woolwich, Colin Buchanan, is believed to have told the commission that he agreed with the move. It is also thought that the Archbishop of Canterbury, wants to give the relationship between Church and monarchy a more 'modern' feel.

Chaired by the barrister David Bean, the commission also includes Lord Waheed Alli, the high-flying Labour peer; Lord Kenneth Morgan, the constitutional historian; and Professor Dawn Oliver, constitutional law expert at University College, London.

Prince Charles is known to be keen to modernise the monarchy and has spoken about being a 'defender of faiths' rather than the present oath which makes the monarch the 'Defender of the Faith' - Christianity.

He has also told senior staff he would want his coronation to be a 'multi-faith' experience in contrast to the heavily Christian service of his mother's coronation in 1952.

'We want to make the argument that the monarchy needs to be seen as a modern institution there for all of the people of Britain, whether they are Christians or non-Christians,' said one source close to the commission. 'It is no longer appropriate for the monarch to be so closely allied with one religion.'

Such a change would overturn one of the most controversial aspects of the monarchy, that a Catholic cannot accede to the throne.

'It would mean that people of any faith or no religious beliefs could be the monarch,' the source said.

The commission is also likely to call for far greater access to royal palaces which are owned by the Crown in trust for the nation.

It will say that the Queen's priceless collection of paintings, prints and furniture should be displayed where the public can see them. Only the Queen's private estates at Sandringham and Balmoral would be exempt.

The commission will also call for a full audit of the Queen's public possessions so it is clear how much Crown properties, including royal parks, the Tower of London, Hampton Court and Whitehall, are worth.

Such a move would be likely to lead to fresh demands for the Queen to pay a greater proportion of her wealth in tax.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Mainline Protestant; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; orthodox
related, but old, of interest from Orthodox England -

Is HRH the Prince of Wales considering entering the Orthodox Church?

'We are hurtling into an abyss of depravity, profligacy, plunder, theft, complete immorality. The only place I see where there may be the beginning of some sort of regeneration is in Russia'.

HRH Prince Charles, quoted in the Russian journal 'Den' in September 1992.

Over the centuries several members of European reigning families have converted to the Orthodox Church, from the Swedish King Magnus in the Middle Ages, to members of Royal Houses in Denmark and Germany. According to the research of a good friend and Oxford scholar, Archbishop Macarius (Tyllirides) of Zimbabwe, in England in the sixteenth-century King Henry VIII, wishing to quit Catholicism, informed himself about the Orthodox Faith. Shortly after, Queen Elizabeth I enquired about becoming Orthodox with a view to marrying a member of the Russian Royal Family. In the nineteenth century two of Queen Victoria's grand-daughters not only became Orthodox, but also became Orthodox Saints - the New Martyrs Alexandra and Elizabeth.

When in 1948 HRH Princess Elizabeth, the present Queen, married the Greek Orthodox Prince Philip, the present Duke of Edinburgh, he was officially required to cease to be Orthodox (although he never ceased to make the Orthodox sign of the cross in public). His devout mother had become an Orthodox nun on being widowed, and she can be seen dressed as an Orthodox nun on the balcony of Buckingham Palace in photographs on various public occasions in the 1950's. Inside the palace a small Orthodox chapel was set up for her use. This was dismantled after her death in 1969 and her remains were buried at a Russian Orthodox convent in Jerusalem, as she had wished.

After many years of not practising his faith, HRH Prince Philip returned to Orthodoxy in the early 1990's. In an article of that time written by Giles Milton ('The Spectator', 14 March 1992), it was revealed that in May 1991 he had spoken in private to a Russian Orthodox bishop in London and for June 1993 he was planning a meeting with the Patriarch of Constantinople, a visit to the Holy Mountain of Athos in Northern Greece and a visit to the Patriarch of Moscow. In the same article, the Prince's words to an Orthodox conference on Ecology in Crete in November 1991 were also quoted:

'The Orthodox Church has always known that every form of religious expression, worship, prayer, festival, preaching, monastic life or mysticism - can provide the inspiration to a practical response to the ecological crisis'.

In some ways it should not therefore be surprising that HRH Prince Charles, his son and heir to the throne, should also be taking a keen interest in the Orthodox Church. Although rumours of this interest reached our ears in the mid-nineties, a recent article in "the Sunday Express' (28 April 2002) suggests that his interest has grown much more serious.

The article, entitled "Is Charles turning his back on the Church' (i.e. the Church of England), reports that: 'Prince Charles has become so fed up with the Church of England he has been having one to one instruction in the Greek Orthodox religion. Friends say that he has made a 'spiritual commitment' to Greek Orthodoxy, but constitutional implications make it impossible for him to consider a full conversion'. A close friend of the Prince is said to have informed the reporters of the national newspaper that: 'The Church of England's absolutely pathetic attitude drives him mad - trying to be everything to everybody, and in the end standing for nothing'. It is asserted that Charles fell in love with Orthodox Christianity when he first visited the Holy Mountain of Athos with its two thousand Orthodox monks of all nationalities in 1996. On another visit to the monastery of Vatopedi on the Holy Mountain, he spent four hours talking alone to the Abbot. It is claimed that there was some sort of 'spiritual ceremony'. (Surely this can only be the Prince's induction as a catechumen of the Orthodox Church?). It is also affirmed that Prince Philip, who is a patron of the Friends of Mount Athos, had an influence on his son, but that the final catalyst was the tragic death of Princess Diana in 1997. "This was when he really got hooked because they gave him a lot of comfort, and that was when the great bond started", quotes the article.

Although the article contains many factual errors and a certain amount of journalistic hype, the possible future conversion of Prince Charles, secret or otherwise, to the Orthodox Church would be the highest-profile conversion to the Orthodox Church in this country in the last one hundred years. For Orthodox it should not altogether be surprising, for he is carried by the prayers of his devout nun-grandmother, and Orthodox Christians never underestimate the powers of a mother's prayers over up to three generations of descendants. Whatever the situation, we will continue to pray that 'the Lord God will remember in His Kingdom HRH The Prince of Wales' at the Great Entrance at every Divine Liturgy. As ever, we await that God's Will may be done in the great work of the Reconversion of England and all these Islands to the Orthodox Faith. May the Paschal light of Bright Monday illumine the hearts of all.

1 posted on 06/17/2003 3:05:23 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema; B-Chan
I believe most Catholic monarchists would prefer for the Queen to remain head of the Church of England, as long as there is no possibility of the royal family becoming Catholic; full or partial disestablishment would probably just turn out to be one more step toward complete secularization of the monarchy and society. At least with the status quo, a remnant of the medieval Catholic concept of Sacramental Kingship is preserved, if imperfectly. Charles Coulombe has argued this viewpoint in the Monarchist League's newsletter.

Personally I am wary of any major constitutional change in the UK as it could open up a can of worms and lead to a wider debate on the monarchy's very existence.

I doubt very much that Prince Charles has any intention of converting to Orthodoxy, or any other religion. He has explored many religious views over the years in his quest to understand the various traditions of the multicultural Britain over which he will one day reign, and currently seems most intrigued by the Muslim and Sikh religions.
2 posted on 06/17/2003 4:30:21 PM PDT by royalcello
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: rglencheek
Well, sometimes spirtual pilgrimages begin after or even amid a disolute life. Blessed Augustine of Hippo, and St. Mary of Egypt come readily to mind.

One should also be aware of the fact that the political nature of royal marriage often presents a greater temptation to adultery than does marriage under other circumstances.

I'll make a special point of praying for HRH Charles on the Feast of St. Harold, Last Orthodox King of England, and his companions who died at Hastings.

4 posted on 06/18/2003 11:01:49 AM PDT by The_Reader_David
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To: MarMema
Lord Waheed Alli

How blessed that my family no longer holds its noble title in England (Lord de Washbourne). To have it tainted by associatian with Lord Waheed Alli's is too much to bear.

5 posted on 06/18/2003 12:49:58 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: The_Reader_David
I'll make a special point of praying for HRH Charles on the Feast of St. Harold, Last Orthodox King of England, and his companions who died at Hastings.

LOL! Partly at the hands of my ancestors, the de Washbourne family from Normandy, and lately of Gloucstershire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New York.

6 posted on 06/18/2003 12:52:58 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: MarMema
England was traditionally closer to the East, in many ways, than to the west. Example #1 of this is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin, celebrated only in England and the Christian East at first.
7 posted on 06/18/2003 12:59:05 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: rglencheek
I would not weep any tears if the whole institution peacefully, and simply disapeared from the face of the Earth.

I could not disagree more strongly. I love the British monarchy and could not bear to see it disappear. With its magnificent pageantry and ancient traditions, the monarchy is one of the few things that keeps this dreary modern world from being completely devoid of continuity with the distant past. I attended HM the Queen's Golden Jubilee celebrations in London last year, and this unforgettable weekend was a highlight of my life. I do not understand how anyone who has witnessed as I have the monarchy at its best, thrilling and touching millions of people, could not wish it to last forever. God Save the Queen!

8 posted on 06/19/2003 10:14:26 PM PDT by royalcello
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To: royalcello
There are always those who want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Nothing wrong with tradition and pageantry.
9 posted on 06/19/2003 10:49:02 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: MarMema
**The Queen should be stripped of her title as Supreme Governor of the Church of England so that the royal family better reflects the religious and ethnic diversity of the United Kingdom, according to a major report on the monarchy.**

I've been wondering if this would ever be proposed.
10 posted on 06/19/2003 11:18:01 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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