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To: MurphsLaw
SSPX doesn't "reject" +Francis, if by that you mean refuse to consider him the lawful Pope of Rome. They aren't sedevacantists, IOW.

What does "reject Vatican II" mean? They think it was a lawfully called ecumenical council. They also think it made some mistakes, specifically its tendency toward indifferentism and its teaching on religious liberty.

(The liturgical "reform" came years after Vatican II, and arguably departs considerably from what the council recommended. Rejecting that is not "rejecting Vatican II," no matter what +Francis and Abp Roche may claim. Their claim is an innovation; Pope St Paul VI -- who ought to know about such things -- granted indults to say the Old Mass. Pope St JP2 granted more of them. Benedict, who was actually at the council as a peritus, made the indult universal.)

But "schism" has a specific meaning: "refusal of communion to the Roman pontiff or those in communion with him". SSPX has never done either of those things.

NB: I am not in any way affiliated with SSPX, and my regular parish is a (very traditional) Novus Ordo parish.

5 posted on 09/15/2022 6:57:08 AM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Campion
We'll have to, very respectfully, disagree on this.
I, as you, not affiliated- or an Ex- , though I have read much from those who are.

That said, I think this Pope can err when he put his shoes on in the morning.
I find little he says or does that inspires me.
But I have my complete trust in God to guide the Church as he has promised-
and that requires an obedience to the Papal Good and the Bad.
(Our Lady of Sorrows emphasizes that for us.)
God has his reasons - and we are to follow.
So no, I cannot cut and run.

I agree with that from the very beginning, that the sect was born out of a rejection of Papal authority - in a "Lutheresque" manner.
They sect was NEVER sent - or commissioned- by the Church...

They can say what they want- but they have always just toyed with a forgiving nature of the Church - and danced between the lines in its application of things formal and material, canonical and non-canonical.
They absolutely do reject the Ecumenical nature of Vat2- but if you want to say they like a lot of what Vat2 called for- I would concede that then.

So, in your opinion then-
if they were indeed under the jurisdiction of the Pope- and Pope Francis decreed each SSPX Chapel would have to celebrate at least one N.O. Mass per Sunday- Do you think the sect would comply? or simply refuse, in disobedience to the Pope?

(This is completely hypothetical- though I'm curious to your opinion...
As even with aura of the Pope's disappointing TC hanging in the air- the Pope would never suggest anything so "currently" consistent as that- of the SSPX- as to cause them any distress...
because he needs to use the SSPX to create further division within the Church,
and to do what he can to reduce traditionalism- using the SSPX as an all too willing co-conspirator.)
6 posted on 09/15/2022 10:19:21 AM PDT by MurphsLaw ( "Strive for peace with all men, AND for the holiness without which NO ONE will see the Lord". Heb12)
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