Posted on 07/22/2022 5:11:12 PM PDT by Morgana
“But I’m not surprised you would defend the heretic.”
But I’m not surprised you would support the murder of babies.
I might say that if I were intellectually dishonest like you are. But I’m not. I know you don’t support the murder of babies. And everyone here and everywhere else knows I’m not defending Luther. What I am saying is that Luther’s beliefs AGAINST abortion and birth control can help other Protestants see the light - and that’s not a bad thing. But, of course, you would resort to intellectual dishonesty.
“So tell me, Vlad: is Luther a saint, like you pretend to be?”
1) I have no logical reason to believe Luther is a saint.
2) In the end, that decision rests with Someone else.
3) I don’t pretend to be a saint.
4) I am, however, able to make an actual argument and I do it without throwing a tantrum like you when you fail to do so.
Ping
>> 1. He did not preach that. He said it in a letter to Melanchthon in a specific context. <<
He was widely said to have preached that. The letter to Melanchthon confirms this was his belief. I think there are plausible explanations as to why we don’t have audio recordings.
Your exculpatory quote is hardly exculpatory. The point is that he preached that it benefited one’s souls to sin boldly despite having faith that it was contrary to God’s will, in direct conflict with Jesus’ command, “Go and sin no more.” We are offered forgiveness because we will sin, but this does not mean we should will to sin, nor that our sins have benefits, rather than grave consequences. If I murder someone, can I tell their widow, “Do not mourn your husband, for through his death, I have learned that God loves me!”
Luther’s larger thesis, that works contribute nothing to the working of grace, is anti-biblical, and Luther realized it, forcing him to reject 14 books which demonstrated otherwise. The truth is that works do not earn salvation, but they are a sign of God’s grace working in our lives. Hence, we ARE to “judge them by their fruits,” as Jesus taught.
—> Your exculpatory quote is hardly exculpatory.
It is the only record of Luther using that phrase.
—> The point is that he preached that it benefited one’s souls to sin boldly
Never. If he did, please post a link. I’d like to read the sermon. Thanks in advance.
—> in direct conflict with Jesus’ command, “Go and sin no more.”
No it is not.
—> Luther’s larger thesis, that works contribute nothing to the working of grace, is anti-biblical, and Luther realized it, forcing him to reject 14 books which demonstrated otherwise.
I’m amazed at how many false claims you fit in that sentence.
What's next?
Claiming Satan can help make Bergoglio, Cupich, Gregory and McElroy "see the light"?
Lutherans do not even consider these apostate Lutherans Christian. I am a Lutheran Christian and I have zero respect for any Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, Methodist... that supports baby killing in the womb. When you dig down they don’t subscribe to even basic Christian theology. Lutheran theology is about the Christ crucified for our sins, forgiveness of our sins through his death and resurrection, being born again in the water of baptism, and receiving his body and blood for the forgiveness of sins at the altar. Ask any one of these fake Lutherans about the centrality of Jesus death for our forgiveness and I guarantee they will deny Jesus. They are not Christian - and should simply be considered modern day pagans.
What exactly is your argument, besides Luther being a "good guy"?
The allegation about Luther in Hell didn’t come directly from Pio himself, but rather someone else, a third party who wasn’t on the scene. Besides, how do we know that Pio wasn’t actually a fraud? Supposedly, most people, including his local bishop, thought he was bogus. But he’s a mainstay favorite of zealous old bitties who can’t let go of yesteryear. The church kept as far away from him as possible until Pope John-Paul II, butted in and canonized him.
Luther’s small catechism centers largely around the 10 commandments. Lutheran theology is based on law and gospel - preaching the law of God to bring repentance, sorrow for your sins, then coming in the the truth of God’s redemption in Christ, his death on the cross for your sins. The grace of God given to us by faith in Christ’s finished work - given to us and sealed by the Holy Spirit in our baptism, and in Christ’s true body and blood at the altar. And echoing in our ears as we hear God’s law and gospel preached. Jesus said let the children come unto me - why would you not bring your infant to God in holy baptism? Baby dedication is not seen in the Bible (made up to replace baptism), baptism is the means God uses.
What's wrong with yesteryear? St. Pius X didn't complain about his yesteryear. As a matter of fact he warned of the future and the threat of modernists.
Yes the Catholic faith, which is not the Roman Catholic faith.
“What a joke: claiming the heretic Luther can make protestants “see the light”. He’s their hero.”
Exactly - he’s their hero. Thus, when they find out he completely opposed birth control, it startles them and makes them think. I’ve seen Protestants do a 180 on their view of Mary merely by reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/Protestant-Pastor-Looks-Mary/dp/0879737271 And he’s just a Protestant pastor and does not entirely agree with Catholic views on Mary.
“What’s next?”
The truth should always be next and presented at all times.
“Claiming Satan can help make Bergoglio, Cupich, Gregory and McElroy “see the light”?”
You don’t think a vision of Satan and Hell would change the minds of many men? I think it would.
“What exactly is your argument, besides Luther being a “good guy”?”
Why do you have to resort to intellectual dishonesty? I never claimed he was a “good guy”. Never. Not once. Why would you make that up? What darkness inside you compels you to post things that everyone here knows are completely false? You really should confess your bearing of false witness before receiving the Eucharist.
“Yes the Catholic faith, which is not the Roman Catholic faith.”
That’s a 16th-17th century Protestant distinction and it’s false. I’m Catholic. Protestants aren’t.
Here’s exactly why I posted this:
Luther has been sanitized by Protestantism, which is not my problem. But in doing so, Protestantism has turned his theology hugely towards the Catholic Church, so much so that the Catholic Church and the German Lutheran Church have basically said they agree on faith, works, scripture, grace, etc. without the Catholic Church moving an inch OK, that’s a GREAT thing... except...
... Now people still think the Catholic Church MUST be preaching something diametrically opposed to Luther, so you’re getting Catholics believing Catholicism must demand on salvation through works just because that’s what Luther opposed. So my point is to say, “NO! THAT’S NOT WHY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS OPPOSED TO LUTHER!!!!”
Shout all you wish, I simply asked for you to post the sermon you claimed Luther preached. Still waiting, though I don’t believe it exists.
And the rest of your claims were false so I just pointed that out...
Do you have anything to post?
>> Shout all you wish, I simply asked for you to post the sermon you claimed Luther preached. Still waiting, though I don’t believe it exists. <<
Funny thing... people didn’t videotape it; I wonder why. However, he WAS summoned to explain his preaching, and rather than deny it, he tried to turn the tables on his accusers by saying they were wrong to be offended by it.
—> However, he WAS summoned to explain his preaching, and rather than deny it, he tried to turn the tables on his accusers by saying they were wrong to be offended by it.
First, despite your claims, you’ve got nothing to post.
Second, as a Catholic professor and priest, Blessed Father Luther prepared a biblical defense. They refused to discuss what Scripture said and only wanted him to repent and do whatever the leadership demanded.
Luther chose God’s inspired Word.
You’ve got that reversed.
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